Deep Water Fishing - problem of distended Swim Bladders

[ronn.]

we are going fishing in norway and want to release all our catch. we will bring nothing back, as we are flying.what should we do with the dead fish,ie, fish that have blown their bladders from depths.

[wriggitt]

why not eat them, there and then? ie bbq

[welshy9]

blown their bladders from depths.


whats that when they are soo deap like divers ?

didn think fish were like that

[Cascars]

blown their bladders from depths.


whats that when they are soo deap like divers ?

didn think fish were like that
It is often the case with fish like Pollack, Cod and Coalies when brought up from 60ft+. Most fish we get when wrecking in the UK are in 150-200ft of water and are as good as dead by the time they surface.
Some fish, such as bass are quite resilient to the depth change though.

[marlin man]

Having fished out in Norway several times with Dave Lewis on the initial exploratory trips to see what was there we proved that cod will go back,we caught cod from 5lb to 50lb and apart from a few that were kept all the rest went back and that was from all depths,ok pollack and coalfish are different but you may find the fish high in thw water and if so then take your time and they to will go back.The other species ie wolf fish and Norweigen haddock are to nice to throw back,we dinned on them for a few nights.

[stevecatfisher]

you'll find that most go back ok, if they dont ,try to puncture their swim bladders, they will go down then however Im not sure if they will live.... but they definitely wont if they are flapping around on the surface being pecked by gulls!

If you are really concerned thread a lenghth of 4 or 5 pound line through the hook hole in the fishes mouth or if there isnt one, make a small one under the chin.

then put a coulple of extra weights on your rod line.

Then tether the fish to the weights or a hook by the weak line using a granny knot.

Then drop the fish back in with the weights attached.

When it gets down deep enough, the expanded air in the fish will contract again under the pressure and the fish will kick and the knot will give.

Wind in, remove the extra weights and carry on fishing!

Takes a few moments but works every time ..no probs.

The fish are not dead when their swim bladders are over inflated and will survive ok.

[lobsterkid]

you'll find that most go back ok, if they dont ,try to puncture their swim bladders, they will go down then however Im not sure if they will live.... but they definitely wont if they are flapping around on the surface being pecked by gulls!

If you are really concerned thread a lenghth of 4 or 5 pound line through the hook hole in the fishes mouth or if there isnt one, make a small one under the chin.

then put a coulple of extra weights on your rod line.

Then tether the fish to the weights or a hook by the weak line using a granny knot.

Then drop the fish back in with the weights attached.

When it gets down deep enough, the expanded air in the fish will contract again under the pressure and the fish will kick and the knot will give.

Wind in, remove the extra weights and carry on fishing!

Takes a few moments but works every time ..no probs.

The fish are not dead when their swim bladders are over inflated and will survive ok.

:) Interesting technique. Do you think this would also work with tusk
as they also blow very badly. I defy anyone to get one of these chappies back alive. Will give it a go when i'm out there next time.
Although it might be a single line on a house brick required.
Cracking tip . Cheers.:thumbs:

[fishiee29]

Yeah as has been said most of the fish will go back fine even from 100m.

They always go back easier the less time you have them out of the water so make sure you're set up with scales, pliers, camera etc. to hand so you can get them back in the water as quickly as possible.

The odd Cod etc. that doesn't go back we will keep for food during the trip (we go self catering). Small ones could be kept for bait. Ones around 2-3 lbs I keep to feed the eagles for photography :)

Tusk usually have to have their swim bladders pierced. I am not sure this technique actually works. Dunno anyone who can claim to have caught a fish again that has had that done however they certainly have more chance than floating on the surface like a baloon!

Redfish... hm... don't think they have much hope. Everything blows up with those! They are fantastic eating though if you get some big enough :)

The method steve explains works amazingly well for big nile perch in Africa. Not tried it in Norway though.

[stevecatfisher]

Yeah as has been said most of the fish will go back fine even from 100m.

They always go back easier the less time you have them out of the water so make sure you're set up with scales, pliers, camera etc. to hand so you can get them back in the water as quickly as possible.

The odd Cod etc. that doesn't go back we will keep for food during the trip (we go self catering). Small ones could be kept for bait. Ones around 2-3 lbs I keep to feed the eagles for photography :)

Tusk usually have to have their swim bladders pierced. I am not sure this technique actually works. Dunno anyone who can claim to have caught a fish again that has had that done however they certainly have more chance than floating on the surface like a baloon!

Redfish... hm... don't think they have much hope. Everything blows up with those! They are fantastic eating though if you get some big enough :)

The method steve explains works amazingly well for big nile perch in Africa. Not tried it in Norway though.

It works in Norway John, after all when a diver comes up with the bends they put him in a decompression chamber to simulate deep water conditions IE to recompress the air in his blood.........and a diver's metabolism is a little more complicated than a fish!

When a fish 'blows' his stomach (not his swim bladder) often comes out of his mouth, especially Tusk, Ive never tried the method with one of those, I just give the stomach a quick stab and throw it back. They usually go back down but as i said previously I dont really know if they live or not but they will soon get eaten if they are sick or injured.

Why not feed the Tusk to the fish eagles instead of cod?, or are they like us and wont eat the bl00dy things :unsure:

Just a thought.....when you do get a blown fish, is it possible that a big part of what stops them going down is just expanded air in the gut cavity, so maybe a little deflationary cut avoiding any vitals is as good as anything.
Is 'deflationary' a word? ... have I invented a new word here?? :laugh:

[fishiee29]

Hi Steve,

Actually it was cutting the stomach I was referring to. Now you mention it, the swim bladder obviously wouldn't come out like that.

I have seen them use a hyperdermic needle to the stomach of one perch (105lbs I think) that even after being tied down in deep water for an hour or so was still not going back.

I've not tried that in other countries. Had a Perch in Uganda (75lbs) that needed that treatment but they didn't have the equipment. We tried to revive it for over an hour but alas it didn't make it. Simple quick incision with a hyperdermic would have had it back in no time.

Never thought to try that same procedure on cod however.Most of them go back to be honest and it's been rare for those that haven't not to have been eaten by the end of the trip.

Certainly some of the fish that won't go down are as a result of the gasses. you can see they have the energy but just can't get down deep enough to equalize.

Small Tursk are also good for the fish eagles however the majority are too big. We've had them up to 15lbs or so. I'd like to see the eagle that can fly off with one of those!

[PanamaJack]

Following on from Steve’s and Fishlee29's comments I thought I’d add the link to this earlier discussion on another forum - http://www.caranx.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2411 (I can recall whether or not you need to register to view.) (Also I’ve moved it to the General International forum as a ‘sticky’.)

The discussion explores a range of alternative methods – pricking the swim bladder, ‘burping’ and the 'weight' – and covers input from anglers in several different parts of the world.

This is the link to the ‘Release Weight’ that’s described there - http://www.recfishwest.org.au/ReleaseWeight.htm. Looks like something that easy to construct ‘at home’. And there’s also a link here - http://www.recfishwest.org.au/TaggingProgram.htm - to scientific research on the release of reef fish off western Australia.

Dave

[fishiee29]

Hi Dave. Thanks for the link.

However now I think beck to exactly what we did in Egypt it was more to aid recovery from exhaustion that swim bladder issues I believe as the larger fish would be totally f***ed at the end of a fight. We would tie them down deep because the water at 50ft say is colder and with more oxygen than the higher water levels.

Generally we'd boat the fish then drop them down deep asap before photos and at times or even weighing (for the ones too big to haul into the boat as this was done on shore later). They'd be tethered by a stringer, left for an hour or so, then brought up for photos and weighing if necessary then released full of energy rather than half dead.

One one occasion one came up bloated still and had to have the gasses released. the rest were usually full of life. On the odd occasion we did use 100lb mono that was broken sometimes by the fish (presumably though there are crocs out there) when they were strong again.

Using the weight method described in that link you could drop a totally dead fish down and you'd never see it again. At least it has more chance of recovering down there than on the top being pecked at by gulls!

[PanamaJack]

However now I think beck to exactly what we did in Egypt it was more to aid recovery from exhaustion that swim bladder issues I believe as the larger fish would be totally f***ed at the end of a fight. We would tie them down deep because the water at 50ft say is colder and with more oxygen than the higher water levels.



Um … an interesting solution, obviously something they’ve thought through that patently works.

So let me qualify my following comments by saying that I don’t understand how water mixes in the vastness of Lake Nasser, nor the impact of extreme temperatures on those upper water layers.

But my general concern with that approach applied elsewhere would be that the fish are likely to be tethered below the thermocline where the water contains less dissolved oxygen. As such it could take them longer to counteract the build up of lactic acids in their muscle tissue.

With saltwater gamefish – Marlin, Sailfish and, inshore, Tarpon – suffering from prolonged fights we tend to tow them, holding bill or lower jaw, to force water (and the dissolved oxygen) over their gills. Five minutes or so of that usually seems to revive them; and to some extent the effectiveness of that’s borne out by the recovery of satellite (and other) tags.

For smaller species, not suffering from the ‘bends’, from anchored boats we just hold them into the current until they pull away.
Dave

[rocket]

Fished it twice now, and 99% of the fish go back live, even coming up from 700 feet, when the fish is about 20/30 feet from the surface, hold it there until the last few bubbles have stop coming out from the fishes body.

[Ravelling Tangler]

and if you do it that way, you won't need to take a "release weight" with you, though you may tie a barbless (and non-circle) large hook by the eye to a couple of your usual weights and tie the line from your heaviest rod (that is not in use) to its bend....just in case you get one that is in trouble.

By the way, I think Tusk make a fairly good Halibut bait (though you won't be legally able to use them live off Norway); certainly Torsk (off Iceland) do ........

[Roddy Hays]

A release weight is the only way to go for most people who do not have the experience to find the right place to deflate the swim bladder though the shoulder/pelvic area. On no account should the stomach be punctured. As the fish descends the wound sometimes opens further under pressure and will split the stomach open.

If you do not have any means abroad to concoct a release weight system (which can be a pain and difficult to operate successfully with strange crew and during a wide-open bite), it's possible to simply use a pile of stones from the beach (or house bricks, blocks etc etc) as sacrificial weights instead. It's a method similiar to the live-baiting method where you insert a button into a tuna's mouth.

Make up some short lengths of line and tie them to the stone (Rubber bands are great for gripping the stone), leaving a simple overhand loop at the other end. Have a baiting needle handy. When the fish is on the surface, bring it carefully into the boat (obviously you'll want a photo), then simply take the baiting needle and pull the loop of line up through the bottom of the jaw and out the mouth where you simply double it through a Polo Mint or Lifesaver. Pull the line down from the jaw untll the Polo Mint is safely embedded in the mouth (your loop can be quite big to ensure that the knot is below the jaw), lower the fish over the side, THEN the rock and line, then let go.

The fish may be better off with a rock (or rocks) rather than a weight as it will go back down at a better rate. Even if the mint does not dissolve by the time the fish reaches the seabed it will eventually. In deep depths I suspect the fish will have gone deep enough to recover by the time the mint dissolves if it has not reached the bottom.

It is best to make explicitly sure that other crew members understand that the bulk pack of Polos you bought at the airport is not for them ! I have also on occasion removed all my favourite colours from the bulk pack of Livesavers, of course - just to ensure quality control.

Incidentally, if you want to freeline a live-bait to depths this is a very good way to do it too. Obviously you have to be careful to free-spool your reel with care so the fish does not end up being torn between taking two directions !

The Chukka refers to both the Polo connotation and the fact the fish is chucked back.

[Ravelling Tangler]

right lads ! find out where Roddy has been fishing (& releasing) and we can catch bottom fish using polos and lifesavers as bait !



Oh.....they wouldn't ? Oh.....

[TomBettle]

If it's just the minty taste they like then surely a sugar free option would be better?
Orbit chewing gum may be better and will stay on the hook well too?

Or, take a leaf out of Sharkey 18's bait box and use Haribo's.
They certainly work on Cod....

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd62/sharkey18/dsc_0574.jpg

NB: If a breach of copyright, please remove and simply post a link to Sharkey 18's post in "Wrecking with Bait".

[lucky]

A release weight is the only way to go for most people who do not have the experience to find the right place to deflate the swim bladder though the shoulder/pelvic area. On no account should the stomach be punctured. As the fish descends the wound sometimes opens further under pressure and will split the stomach open.
Roddy is spot on here. People sometimes mistake the stomach for the swim bladder and pierce it which will probably kill the fish. In Florida the Wildlife Commission requires fishing boats to carry a venting tool which is similar to a hypodermic syringe.

Here's a link to some info and a video about venting fish.

http://catchandrelease.org/venting.shtml

and some more info here...

http://www.flseagrant.org/program_areas/fisheries/venting/

Here's a venting tool. This one costs about $8.