Suitable rods and reels

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

I thought I would put this question into the appropriate forum ie: "Tackle" although I got what I expected, no answers.
Maybe the experts from the foreign section could help me please.

Rod and reel for everything?

Is there such a thing? I think not but I do need a set of rods and reels and would appreciate some advice.

I fish the Med mostly and my 4 and 5lb, 12/13 foot carp/cat rods and quality big pit fixed spooled reels do the trick.

I have been taking them to the Gambia also and they are not really suitable and cant for instance cast a 6 oz lead plus bait as far as I sometimes need.

I'm told good multipliers will be better and so I want to change to these also. A good multiplyer breaking system would be useful as it offers me more confidence when casting.

I am looking for rods and reels I can also take to places where the fish may be bigger on the whole but I suppose if I buy rods suitable for the biggest (Likely) fish to be caught on Gambian beaches they should suit.

The extreme use they would probably get is on South African beaches but with smaller baits than used for big shark.

Hope you can help and advise, John.

P.S.Because of elbow and shoulder inuries I find I cast better with rods with long butts and need to use my right hand to thumb the reels. IE: I cannot cast those South African 14 foot one piece totum poles with next to no butts, especially as the reels have to be thumbed with the left hand.
__________________

[PanamaJack]

Um ... been monitoring this for a number of days now and it's a bit of a shame that no one's replied yet John.

I would have thought that some of the Gambian regulars might have been able to offer some suggestions. There's also Roger (aka the RavellingTangler) who I know has recently started - unless he's been hiding his light under a bushel - shore fishing. Roger, a bit like me, can best be described as a 'dyed in the wool' boat angler but he's an avid reader of 'articles technical' and a contributor to a whole range of different forums. And, as well, there's MarktheShark and Daikent.

So, back to your question.

And I suppose with outfits it's got to be 'horses for courses'. Is that why I've got over 30 rods and reels? And, the collection's building! (I've recently, after taking an early retirment package, started to get back into coarse fishing and for long range fishing for Tench and Crucian Carp had a couple of 1 3/4lb Chimera Specialists made up.)

I guess though, knowing very little about shore fishing, that you're not able to hurl a 6oz weight on those 5lb test curve Catfish rods. Is that the case? Or is it a case of not being able to get reasonable distance? Presumably slightly lighter leads with sprung 'anchor' wires can help hold bottom in strong lateral tidal flows?

Then, what line are you using on your Big Pit reels - braid or mono? I would have thought braid, providing it's wet and packed down well before you 'wind up' for a BIG cast and you're using a leather thumb protector, would have given you adequate distance.

As well what's the ringing like on those 12' rods? Those for distance work often settle for just seven rings.

Resistance from bait can also presumably be an issue? And I guess there must be ways of minimising that. Just like long range Carp fishing?

So, obviously different fishing, but I can hurl those huge - 6oz - GT poppers over 100 yards using braid on a specialist 9' rod with a Shimano Stella. And reel-wise, and honest guv this isn't a Shimano ad, I've found their small Calcutta 400 an excellent casting reel when geared to 12 or 16lb line; and I've landed a number of 100lb plus fish - Tarpon and Sailfish - on it albeit on 7' spin rod blanks ringed for casting.

So I'm sure John I've got nowhere near answering your question but, if nothing else, it might provoke someone, a 'proper' shore fisherperson, to respond.
Dave

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Hello Dave, thanks for answering, most of the rods I've been using are 12 and 13 foot 4lbers and only one is a 12 foot 5lber and it is actually a spod rod and they are often used for light catfishing.

I can cast a 6oz lead ok with them but there are times when the extra distance is required and its the baits that affect the cast as much as the weight, probably 9 or 10 oz in all (Two baits).

My braid is 22lbs and about 28mm diameter. I also use a 60lb mono shockleader with three turns on the reel for casting.

As for rings I really cant remember and not by my rods, six or seven I think?

I would guess I am only getting 75 yards max with the set up I've been using and think its time to spend money on the right tackle.

Thanks again Dave for the bump and hopefuly the beach casting experts will assist soon, John.

[daikent]

John/Dave,
Sorry mateys, been back in Wales working on my new house so have been offline for a while. Only managed one day's fishing in the last 2 months but still got taught a lesson by my old man....at 78 with 2 new hips and 2 new knees, he can't rock-hop like he used to when Clive Gammon used to write articles about him but he's forgotten more about bass fishing than most people have ever learned! Borrowed a mates little 15 footer for the day and worked hard for a cracking small back of soft and peeler crabs. End of the day....me 1 big mackerel (on a rapala!), my mate 1 small tope about 3lbs and 1 small bass about 2lbs......my Dad.....you guessed it 7 (yes seven) lovely bass between 3 and 6lbs...jammy git!

Anyway, the rods and reels......I don't like carrying big bazookas on holidays and I don't like telescopics...too fragile; so everything has to either be in several pieces in the suitcase or fit into my Jarvis Walker custom travel tube which is only 52 inches long and 3 inches diameter.

For a boat, I used to have a lovely Shimano Exage 4 piece until I lost the top eye to a barracuda in Mexico and while trying to get it fixed in Vancouver shortly after the tackle shop managed to snap both two top sections (w****rs!). Anyway, I replaced that with a 2 piece Shimano TCurve Deep Jig Overhead 400...8 rings on a top section of just 42 inches with a nice long butt section of 28 inches (1.7metres in total) and a very handy rod for lots of big fish from the boat. It works well with an old Shakespeare SeaQuest that I like with essentially a good drag system and holding about 280metres of 30lb mono or about 400metres of braid (although I have to say I like fishing close to rocks for things like kingfish and I much prefer mono to braid for that sort of thing).

I have yet to find a beachcaster that comes in enough pieces to break down to a reasonable size for travelling, so I tend to leave those at home and I get by with an 8ft, 4 piece called a SEACOR from Cormoran. It's labelled as a Travel Pilk/Boat Rod, but is High Density Glass Composite and quite a stiff rod that can cast a decent heavy weight of about 6oz a good distance. The reel mounting is 17 inches from the end of the butt, so you can get pretty good leverage, even when up to your waist in the surf. I used to use a Daiwa 4500 fixed spool reel, but recently upgraded to the Daiwa Opus 6000 which is a beast of a fixed spool reel which easily holds 300yards of 20lb mono....once again, a really good drag system is the key.

I also carry an 8ft, 2 piece spinning rod called a Silstar Powertip which is very whippy but also exceptionally strong and has caught some BIG fish! (Paired with the Daiwa 4500, it landed my 88lb Captain Fish in the Gambia with Ninja back in 2006). It works most rapalas, lures and poppers very well indeed and, using lighter weights, serves as a very useful second beach rod.

To catch my livebait I use a little 6ft, 5 piece, Okuma Voyager which breaks down to 16 inches by 2 inches and I use that with a little Okuma Voyager fixed spool reel and 4lb line. If you hook something bigger than usual on that (which you often do in some of the places we tend to get to!), you get to have a few minutes of great rod-bending action, but the line will always go before the rod.

Hope that helps a little and hope to bump into you somewhere, sometime.

Next trip is with the missus for a bit of sunshine in Mexico 6-20 September. 1 week in Cozumel and 1 week on the Riviera Maya around Puerto Aventuras where I shall be stalking my old barracuda friend under the Barcelo Maya Boat Pier!!

All the best,
Dai

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Hello Dai, thats put the cat amongst the pigons as I wasnt thinking of short rods!!!

I usually carry a 7 foot 7 inch diameter tube from the inside of a carpet roll and take 7 foot boat rods so I was thinking a 14 foot beachcaster really (In two pieces) Now I'm even more confused, John.

P.S. Congrats to dad and good luck on your Carib tour................

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Hello Aram, thanks for the repies. My shark fishing was in Namibia and not the Gambia.

The tackle Im looking for is more 20lb to 50lb class fish and not really sharks although it would be nice to have a chance of landing one if hooked. Something capable of casting 6 to 8 (Maybe 10oz) of lead and bait.

John.

[stevecatfisher]

Hello Aram, thanks for the repies. My shark fishing was in Namibia and not the Gambia.

The tackle Im looking for is more 20lb to 50lb class fish and not really sharks although it would be nice to have a chance of landing one if hooked. Something capable of casting 6 to 8 (Maybe 10oz) of lead and bait.

John.

Hi john I have a Penn powerstix 15 ft 3 piece and its a pleasure to use, it has an adjustable reel seat so you can put the reel higher up for casting and then lower it for winding in and/or playing fish. I use it with a penn 525 gls.
The rod comes in a hard case.
steve

[PanamaJack]

Well John, certainly a few suggestions there.

I guess your topic also made me start to think about the issue of the aerodynamics - or the lack thereof - of your baits and the impact that was having on reducing casting distance. Now as I started off my saying the one thing I'm not is a shore fisherman in your conventional sense so my apologies in advance if these suggestions are completely lunatic.

Firstly is there any possibility of using the Carpers 'rocket' PVA (water soluable) bags to reduce wind resistance? Stuffing the lead and baits in the bag. Obviously the baits would have to be fish based with high oil content. That unless you initially coated the inside of the bag with some oil-based, PVA friendly liquid. Really don't know in that latter regard, it's something I intend trying with sweet corn in the bag for my long range Tench fishing.

Then, and I guess this does require a steeply sloping beach or rock mark. But in places like the Hawaii islands (yes, I know they're volcanic) the locals shore fish for Giant Trevally, fish that can be over 100lbs in weight. There they initially cast out a line with just a weight, and a stop, on it and then periodically slide baits on short traces down their main line. Foe less steep angles on the reel line, if it's feasible, I suspect you may need to weight the 'pigtail' swivel to help it slide.

Finally, and here you'd need offshore breezes, there the kite flying technique. Now I know this works, several of our Club members have caught Sharks and even hooked Yellowfin Tuna, on Ascension Island.

If either of the latter two make any sense where you're planning to fish - and remember I did start by saying that being 'out of the box' they might well be complete no-noes - here are a couple of url links. Firstly the Hawaiian bait sliding - http://www.traveltotourism.com/recreationarticles.php?Slide-Baiting+-+Extreme+Fishing+in+Hawaii&ID=6632 and here's what they catch - http://www.hawaiifishingnews.com/home.cfm?CFID=14594534&CFTOKEN=98567850. (On that 2nd link you can see a gallery of 100lb plus fish that have been taken. Some of their gear is more like big game tackle!) Then the kite fishing - http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/ and http://www.hiflykites.co.za/free-kite-guides/kitefishing-manual/.
Dave

[daikent]

Aram, you old dog,
Why did I ever tell you about this cracking site!!? (Although you seem to get quite a lot of "bites" on it already!!)
100 Euros for a GG100....try nearer $68 (that's about £2.50 last time I looked?!)...check out digitaldagger.com/reels/tica, etc. Only cos' I'd never heard of one and had to have a look. I might seriously be interested in the 6 piece Shakespeare though...and so might John if we can find one.

Just so no-one thinks my Dad still hasn't got a bit of life in him yet...

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn130/daikent/DSC00634.jpg

Happy days everybody,
LoL,
Dai

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Hi Dave, also being a carp angler I thought of the PVA idea but some work would have to be done on it to make it as aerodinamic as possible, ie oil added to the outside of the bag to make it so. Secondly and most important while wading out to cast I would suggest it most likely the contents of the bag would be hanging out before it was cast out, what with waves crashing on me and splashing water everywhere. Lastly the spikes on the breakaway leads would prove a challenge. I can see you are a thinking angler Dave.

Re the sliding bait, I have seen this used in Namibia for sharks but am not sure if it would work in the Gambia, maybe the regulars would like to comment.
I'm not sure if the beach is steep enough for this to work and the continual weed problem there would hinder this method of fishing in my view.
I have a couple of times, before realising it and tying a stop swivel above, cast out a top trace and notice it fly back on the cast. This is an obvious result but I was surprised to wind in and find the trace hadnt found its way back down. This may be solved by your comment "may need to weight the 'pigtail' swivel to help it slide" Whatever that is???

The kite flying was interesting but Ive not experienced an offshore wind during my previous two weeks in the Gambia. Probably because the coast faces West and the Atlantic and I would guess onshore winds might be the norm. This method may be able to be used at low tide on some of the rocky outcrops.

You brought up some interesting thoughts there Dave and thanks also for the links, also of great interest, best wishes, John.








Well John, certainly a few suggestions there.

I guess your topic also made me start to think about the issue of the aerodynamics - or the lack thereof - of your baits and the impact that was having on reducing casting distance. Now as I started off my saying the one thing I'm not is a shore fisherman in your conventional sense so my apologies in advance if these suggestions are completely lunatic.

Firstly is there any possibility of using the Carpers 'rocket' PVA (water soluable) bags to reduce wind resistance? Stuffing the lead and baits in the bag. Obviously the baits would have to be fish based with high oil content. That unless you initially coated the inside of the bag with some oil-based, PVA friendly liquid. Really don't know in that latter regard, it's something I intend trying with sweet corn in the bag for my long range Tench fishing.

Then, and I guess this does require a steeply sloping beach or rock mark. But in places like the Hawaii islands (yes, I know they're volcanic) the locals shore fish for Giant Trevally, fish that can be over 100lbs in weight. There they initially cast out a line with just a weight, and a stop, on it and then periodically slide baits on short traces down their main line. Foe less steep angles on the reel line, if it's feasible, I suspect you may need to weight the 'pigtail' swivel to help it slide.

Finally, and here you'd need offshore breezes, there the kite flying technique. Now I know this works, several of our Club members have caught Sharks and even hooked Yellowfin Tuna, on Ascension Island.

If either of the latter two make any sense where you're planning to fish - and remember I did start by saying that being 'out of the box' they might well be complete no-noes - here are a couple of url links. Firstly the Hawaiian bait sliding - http://www.traveltotourism.com/recreationarticles.php?Slide-Baiting+-+Extreme+Fishing+in+Hawaii&ID=6632 and here's what they catch - http://www.hawaiifishingnews.com/home.cfm?CFID=14594534&CFTOKEN=98567850. (On that 2nd link you can see a gallery of 100lb plus fish that have been taken. Some of their gear is more like big game tackle!) Then the kite fishing - http://www.fishingkites.co.nz/ and http://www.hiflykites.co.za/free-kite-guides/kitefishing-manual/.
Dave

[PanamaJack]

John
Just a thought. Mike Thrussel Jnr has reviewed the Dvice lead system on the site against this url - http://www.worldseafishing.com/reviews/accessories/dvice_lead.html. Might that possibly add those extra yards to your cast in the Gambia?
Dave

[PanamaJack]

This may be solved by your comment "may need to weight the 'pigtail' swivel to help it slide" Whatever that is???
John.

John
It's just a swivel with a form of release clip on it. You just connect it to your reel line after you'd cast. The weight, I'd assumed, would help it run down the shallower line angle, a bit like a freshwater back lead. There some examples on this url - http://www.bluewaterhunter.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/speargun_line.html.
Dave

[Ravelling Tangler]

Hello Dai, thats put the cat amongst the pigons as I wasnt thinking of short rods!!!

I usually carry a 7 foot 7 inch diameter tube from the inside of a carpet roll and take 7 foot boat rods so I was thinking a 14 foot beachcaster really (In two pieces) Now I'm even more confused, John.

P.S. Congrats to dad and good luck on your Carib tour................

With a tube that long, I can heartily recommend two of the Shimano rods:- the Aspire130M and the 140M - they are two very different beasts.

The 13 footer has a very light (and very tippy) top section but can still easily cast 8oz (or more) - provided you don't do a high-inertia ("Brighton") cast with the heaviest weights without knowing about how to do that with a "slow start". More details of that if you want.
This rod is so light (about 650grams all told, of which the top half is only 140g) that you can hold it like a Bass rod; but you can use it with 30 or 40lb mainline if you want.

The other one has a much stiffer (and heavier) tip section and is ideally suited to heaving both heavy weights and heavy baits off the beach BUT because it is obviously a groundcast / rough ground rod it does work better with a low reel and slow casting action (however I guess you could have the reel some way up the rod if you used a backcast with it ?)

Reels:- Multipliers are generally better for fighting big fish, but when you get to the bigger multipliers (e.g. Penn 535mag, 545mag or 555mag - I have each of those) they really don't cast as well as either the small (6500-sized) multipliers or big fixed-spools.

So unless you are into Hawaiian Style casting (where they cast 16oz lead weights with reel like the Senator 6/0) and you'll be wanting both to cast a long way and fight big. tough, hard-running fish you just might find that the very biggest, toughest (most expensive) reels like the Stella 20,000 Saltiga (biggest) or Accurate Twinspin . . . . . . . . . used in conjunction with a Breakaway Cannon device to take the strain while casting are you best bet.


If you take a look at the www.myfishingcasting.org site and hunt for topics like casting the "Hippo" (or is it "the Hungry Hippo ?" ) - leads of 300g + you will see lots of tips and options.

More later . . . . . . .

[PanamaJack]

If you take a look at the www.myfishingcasting.org site and hunt for topics like casting the "Hippo" (or is it "the Hungry Hippo ?" ) - leads of 300g + you will see lots of tips and options.

More later . . . . . . .

Hi Roger
Um …. can not compute.

All I could find, doing a Google search, was a reference trawling through the Spanish on this - http://www.pescamediterraneo2.com/foros/lofiversion/index.php/f30.html, to a Keith White. But have tried several variations of urls and associated searches and am getting no where. Any suggestions?
Dave

[PanamaJack]

Hi John
A custom rod builder from Namibia has just joined the forum. This was his first post on one of the African threads:


Hi Matt,

As a custom rod builder and guide in Namibia, you are asking a lot of just one rod. We build in a huge variety of weights dependant on what species and areas you are going to be fishing in. A bit like in the UK, where you would have one rod for estuary work, another for distance work, and perhaps even another for heavy ground fishing.

We build mainly on Blue Marlin blanks as they are the most advanced in their development program, and they are always developing new designs to cope with specific markets. Even down to portable rods in 2 or 3 pieces, or the standard single piece 14 footers.

You will have to decide what types of fishing you are going to be doing to narrow down your choice of rod, and then that will determine the reel options. Folks have mentioned shark rods in this thread, and even with these we build a variety according to peoples differing needs.

Hope that helps.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

Perhaps worth contacting him?
Dave

[Yorkshire Boy]

I'm sorry for getting in late and I hope no one minds me replying.

I read that you want to cast a long way so perhaps this isn't the best suggestion, but it's plenty beefy enough.

Have a look at thefriedlyfisherman. They have a 10ft 3pce rod, 4-10oz. 30-40lb mono, 80-100lb braid.

Its landed cats and sturgeon to over 100lb.

Anyway, just a thought.

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Thanks Dave and Yorkshire boy. It is a little extra distance I want, not that it's usually required but when it is its no good having a set up that can't do it.

I've been advised there are excellent travel rods available now, maybe 14 foot in 5 pieces, wouldnt have been believable 10 years ago eh?

I'ts another option for me and would save me taking a 7 foot 7 inch carpet roll eh?

Still havent decided, John Beachcomber.

[Yorkshire Boy]

I have a Penn Seatrek, 12ft, 3pc with an extra tip section.
So it breaks down to about 4ft. The light tip will cast as low as 2oz, the heavy tip will easily cast 5oz. You can use a multiplier or fixed spool on it.

It's very versatile, and if you hurry you might be able to pick one up for 75-80 quid, they're been discontinued.

I don't know how it'll handle big foreign fish but I love mine.

Having read the stories by "High Plains Drifter" over on stripersonline, I feel fairly confident that with the light tip, I could long range plug with this rod. I have a Shimano TWINPOWER 8000 reel and the setup doesn't feel too heavy (after a couple of hours I'm sure my arms and shoulders might be sore though!)

Shimano make the Forcemaster multi piece rod (6 sections), you'll find it in their sea section. 9'6'' uptide style add another section and it becomes 11' (or 11'6'' can't remember).

Daiwa do the Wilderness beach rods, 12 or 13ft, 4pce.

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Thanks again Yorkshire Boy, my minimum lead is 6oz plus two largish baits on size 4 hooks, possibly adding up to 10oz. This is why I think I need a strong and long rod, maybe 14 foot.
John.

[Yorkshire Boy]

Conoflex do a rod which they say is for Namibia and Gambia.

http://www.conoflex.co.uk/travel.htm

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

3 - Piece SLR
12ft 8" 5 oz. Longest section 54".
Ideal travelling companion for trips to Gambia or Namibia to tackle the Sharks.
Blank - £277.73, Fully Factory Built - £362.33

Thanks yorkshire Boy. I see its only 5 oz and certainly wont punch out 10oz of lead and bait. Calling it a shark rod you would think it could handle more than 5oz eh? Also the price is more than I wanted to pay, if I had to I would, BUT!!!

John Beachcomber.

[PanamaJack]

Well apologies in advance John. I just couldn't resist, tongue in cheek, posting details of this fabulous invention to solve your problem over casting those few extra feet, designed by who else that our 'cousins' from the other side of 'the Pond'. Blimey, it really is a 'must have'!

The product web site - http://www.surfrocketfishing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SR&Category_Code=SR8 and the 'device' in action - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vrDKYH6x36o&feature=related.
Dave

[PanamaJack]

Or the economy version - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_7GyObg3oZ8&feature=related?

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Great Dave, I dont think customs would think much of the gas rocket in my luggage but I do like the economy version, :clap3: John.

[Roller]

LOL Dai, actually, not a single person from the forum has come over to fish yet

Aram (www.gonefishing.tv)

Your telling me my family will be the first Brits to fish Caleta, soley based on reading this forum? my holiday destination was in the bag period! after reading your thread on shore and boat fishing. My wife had no idea, I had based our holiday around fishing...:oops: :laugh: I noticed Caleta has shops and a beach so she'll be happy, we were intending on going to the Algarve...

Aram are you likely to have any of those Shakespear travel rods in stock when I come over? seems certain airlines are a bit finicky about rods, bringing my gear over looks like costing a bomb..

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Aram, have you got a reasonably priced 5 star hotel in your town as I might be able to talk the wife into a beach/hotel/fishing holiday with another couple. (He's a fisherman) Him and his wife only do 5 star!!!!!! I would have to suffer it!!!!

John.

[Beachcomber_Bar_Mojacar]

Thanks for that Arum, I have sent the hotel link to my mate and see if he responds, I wont mention the fishing to him until later!!!

We would however only be allowed to fish days (Maybe one night) so we would miss out on the best of the fishing of course.

I am really envious of you with the quality, type and size of fish available to you, here in the Med its a joke, they (The Spanish) are still raping the seas right in front of my eyes.

John Beachcomber.