Whirling Dervish! My first attempts.

[TomBettle]

Well I have said I would give it a go and I taking the plunge....

...or at least I am dipping a toe in the water with a relatively cheap set up to start with.

I have just purchased a Greys GRX reel that takes a 9/11# line and also an unnamed flyrod that is 8/9# off eBay.

The reel is a good starter reel and seems reasonable quality. The rod I am confused about.
It looks beautifully built with a ceramin stripper and snake guides. 9 foot and only 2 piece (but for the price I couldn't complain) it should do the job.

My question about the rod:

It is labelled as being 8 to 9# which is about the power recommended for a good all round UK salt water fly rod.
How stiff and what sort of action would a reasonable rod of this weight have?

The reason for the question is that the rod seems remarkably light in action.
It is really quite a through action rod and (I understand the blank is different) it has about the sort of power you would imagine a 25grm spinning rod to have.
Is this correct?

Thanks for your help.
Tom

[lobsterkid]

:) I would expect it to be reasonably still if it has a WF of 8/9. But i'd say it was a bit short in length. 9ft is fine for river fishing but from the shore or boat i'd plumb for 11ft. But hey ho i'm no expert.:) :)

[TomBettle]

:) I would expect it to be reasonably still if it has a WF of 8/9. But i'd say it was a bit short in length. 9ft is fine for river fishing but from the shore or boat i'd plumb for 11ft. But hey ho i'm no expert.:) :)

Went for 9 foot 9# as that is what Mike Thurssell recommends on here, however this seems to be light to me.

Could anyone give a comparison of relative "stiffness" compared to a rod I can relate to? Eg: 6lb class Boat rod, 12lb class boat rod.
Sorry for being so dumb, but I am trying to learn.

[NigelB]

The action of fly rods tend to vary according to the purpose they are designed for rather then the actual weight of line they are rated at. For example a 7/8 "dry fly" rod would have a siffer action then a 7/8 "nymph" rod which would have a more through action

Difficult to make a direct comparison to boat rod ratings but #9/10 rated fly rod is about as heavy as most people would use for resevoir trout fishing so would be roughly the equivilant to a 30/50lb class boat rod, #7/8 = 20/30lb, #6/7 = 12/20lb, #5/6 = 6/12lb

[Manx Fisher]

I understand how you feel Tom - I also bought a cheap fly rod to see if I liked it, and my first impression was 'how on earth do you control a decent fish with that, surely it will simply collapse'

Well, the good news is that my first fish on it was a mackerel, and the very good news is that the 'floppy rod' did indeed have enough backbone to control the fish (to my utter amazement !!!). I am still very much at the novice stage, but the point I am trying to make is that I think you might be pleasantly surprised at how the rod actually handles ... despite your initial reservations. There's only one way to find out, enjoy :D

[TomBettle]

Thanks for that Manx Fisher!

I am a fan of light line fishing from the boat and my concern was that the rod simply wouldn't have the power to cast the line and fly, however I shall give it a go and see what happens!

I am reasonably aquainted with the main man at Greys (we spent a weekend fishing together in Alderney last year), certainly not lifetime buddies, but he is a great source of info on rods so I have dropped him a line and asked his advice too.

Nigel, thanks for your response, much appreciated.
I can see where you are coming from with your comparison, but this 8/9# rod is nowhere near a 30lb class boat rod. It is more akin to a very light salt water spinning rod. I would guess the test curve is a pound or less.
I have no quarms about stopping a reasonable fish with it, but dubious about being able to lifted a heavy line off the water with it... We shall see.

Cheers Guys
Tom


I understand how you feel Tom - I also bought a cheap fly rod to see if I liked it, and my first impression was 'how on earth do you control a decent fish with that, surely it will simply collapse'

Well, the good news is that my first fish on it was a mackerel, and the very good news is that the 'floppy rod' did indeed have enough backbone to control the fish (to my utter amazement !!!). I am still very much at the novice stage, but the point I am trying to make is that I think you might be pleasantly surprised at how the rod actually handles ... despite your initial reservations. There's only one way to find out, enjoy :D

[lobsterkid]

[QUOTE=TomBettle;300442]Thanks for that Manx Fisher!

I am a fan of light line fishing from the boat and my concern was that the rod simply wouldn't have the power to cast the line and fly, however I shall give it a go and see what happens!

I am reasonably aquainted with the main man at Greys (we spent a weekend fishing together in Alderney last year), certainly not lifetime buddies, but he is a great source of info on rods so I have dropped him a line and asked his advice too.

Nigel, thanks for your response, much appreciated.
I can see where you are coming from with your comparison, but this 8/9# rod is nowhere near a 30lb class boat rod. It is more akin to a very light salt water spinning rod. I would guess the test curve is a pound or less.
I have no quarms about stopping a reasonable fish with it, but dubious about being able to lifted a heavy line off the water with it... We shall see.

:) I think you have answered your own question. You say it has a reasonable bend with a 1lb strain so it'll be in the 1/2lb to 1lb bracket. Very light for sea fishing but twice the fun:)

[bigads]

You've also got to remember that the rod is designed to bend with the weight of the fly line. You have to compress the rod to cast the line....same principle applies in shore fishing etc. The butt section is where the power of a fly rod is.

By no means an expert, but these are my observations.

[TomBettle]

Thanks guys for your help.

I am still abit confused as to whether I need a fast taper (tip action) rod for belting a big sandeel or joey immitation into the wind or should I have an all through (bendy) rod for the purpose.

I am trying to bare in mind that I have to pick up a fair bit of heavy fly line along with a big fly and punch it into the wind....

Any experts here?
Maybe Mike T snr. would like to add a thought as I tried to pick up tips from his write ups?

Whoever replies, thank you!

Tom



You've also got to remember that the rod is designed to bend with the weight of the fly line. You have to compress the rod to cast the line....same principle applies in shore fishing etc. The butt section is where the power of a fly rod is.

By no means an expert, but these are my observations.

[Carleonr]

Tom,
Can I throw in my thoughts on this. I am fairly new to Sea Fishing, but fly fished for more years than I care to remember.

Dont get too hung up on the tapers and actions. This in my opinion relates more to presentation of trout flies, dry and small nymphs in particular, rather than relatively huge eel and joey imitations. Use what is comfortable and what you have sounds more than up to the job.

To get big flies into wind is more about technique, than brute force. And dont worry about an 8 or 9 wt rod not handling the line or fly, more than strong enough as long as the technique is good, progressive rather than snatchy.

Coming back to getting line and fly into wind, (if it makes sense), you need to keep small loops, and these come from keeping the arc of the cast between 10 oclock and 2 oclock (12 oclock directly above your head). Any more than that, and the vertical difference in the arc cast makes large loops that lose any chance of distance in anything but a following wind.

Hope that doesnt confuse you too much, PM me if you get tied up in Knots

Cheers

David

[Welsh man of the valleys]

Have a look on this site, tells you what you want to knowhttp://www.sexyloops.com/flycasting/contents.shtml

Some fly rods look like they would break if you caught a goldfish on them, all in the design.
TTFN Kev

[TomBettle]

Cheers Guys

All excellent info!

[Huw]

Tom
I did the same as you and took mike snr's advice. I bought a Greys 9wt rod of 9'6" and an integra carbon framed reel. I only had it out once and ended up almost knitting a jumper instead of casting! Take your time and get as much help as you can mate.
Huw

[PanamaJack]

This is a sad admission Tom – I’m a ‘Tackle Tart’ - I’ve got more fishing tackle than I care to remember! And hopefully the wife’s still convinced that nothing costs me more than 7/6. Any rate, fly-wise, there’s everything from several freshwater 4 weights, in every line class, up to a hefty 16. But they’re all single handed rods, with nothing longer than 9’ 6”.

In my opinion, and it is only my opinion I hasten to add, a 9 footer will be perfectly adequate for starting with. You can – importantly for you I guess - use it in a boat, also from the shore – particularly if you’re prepared to ‘paddle’. (And certainly with Bass quite a few of them are close in, not ‘over the horizon’.)

Double handed rods, matched with shooting heads - the sort of things used in Salmon fishing - are now starting to gain a big following amongst shore based Striped Bass anglers in the ‘States. And a number of saltwater fly rodders here are also using them. They have their purpose, but they are specialist rods, and your casting really needs to be up to it.

Now, rod weights. I’m usually quite happy using a 9 weight for ‘general’ work in this country, although going lighter for Mackerel and Mullet – a 7 or an 8.

As to matching lines to rods, um…..slightly more difficult. Certainly the temptation, especially in a stiff breeze, is to ‘up it’ one weight. But I think that starts to destroy the rod’s action making them overly ‘floppy’, making casting even more difficult. And certainly many of the experts will suggest using one that rated one weight down. Also many rods sold in the UK have a very ‘through’ action and are rated for two line weights – your 8/9 for instance. Confusing isn’t it?

So I think, as a starting point, unless you’re able to experiment at a shop use the one rated for the rod, or perhaps in the case of something like your 8/9, the lower one. But as someone else suggested look at the excellent tips on that ‘sexyloops’ web site - and practise, practise, practise. Or even take a lesson. It’s surprising just what you can cast with good technique.

Then do you want/need a floating, sinking or intermediate line? And, of course, they’re several variants in between! As a generalisation, if you’re going to limit yourself to one, I’d opt for an intermediate. Although, if you’re going to ‘paddle’ or shore fish a stripping basket can help – it keeps the line away from the abrasive rocks or sand and the effect of the sea.

I guess we're all going to be interesting in hearing when it all comes together and you get your first fish 'fluff chucking'.

All the Very Best!
Dave

[TomBettle]

Dave

Like yourself, I openly admit to being a tackle tart.
I used to own several 10's of £000's of pounds worth of the best Fin Nor, Star and Pakula bits and bobs you could have along with many less useful items of kit.
These were all sold when I changed jobs to one that pays somewhat less well, but, hey ho, I have bought a whole stack more stuff to, "Tide me over" while waiting to crack my first million.

I kind of guessed that I didn't have a clue and so have dutifully purchased a bit of everything from my olf friends Paul and Pat down at Rok-Max.
So my my 8/9# rod is now coupled with a Greys GRX reel and the three spools are healthily loaded with very large amounts of 30lb braid backing nail knotted to 9F,
9i and 9S respectively.
A small, but pretty looking selction of joey and sandeel immitations complete the ensemble along with a nice new pair of Daiwa neoprene chesties for the "paddling" bit.

My final questions before I go and get my ears pierced by a pretend joey mackerel hurtling past at 200mph is:
What is the best knot for attaching the leader to the fly line.... Another nail knot?
Also
If I use a 10lbish flurocarbon leader, do I also need to tie on a separate hook length to the leader?

Cheers
Tom

[Carleonr]

Tom,
I find that the best way to attach the leader is using a braided loop. When they are attached properly they work really well, even helping in the cast a little. Then it is a simple loop to loop connection from line to leader....... easy.

I dont use any seperate hook lengths on anything heavier than 8lb leaders, I just tie the fly straight on using a tucked blood knot or a grinner knot.

Good Luck

Another Dave

[PanamaJack]

Hi Tom
Sorry for the delay in replying. All connecting systems – braided loops, nail and needle knots – patently work. Although all can, and do, patently fail if put under extreme pressure! Fishing a 20lb tippet I’ve had a nail knot slip off the end of a fly line in Costa Rica with a big Sailfish attached. And I know of a friend who hooked into a 50/60lb Bluefin Tuna off Gibraltar where the braided loop similarly failed. But I readily accept that that's 'extreme' fishing.

I guess, in part because of that, I’ve always favoured a needle knot – it’s strong and reliable. That is just to tie in a short length of heavy mono with a simple double, overhand loop on the end. Then, as suggested, it’s just a simple loop to loop connection to the leader.

Particularly in freshwater where you’re using an un-weighted, often dry fly there’s every purpose in using a tapered leader. It helps to ‘turn’ the leader over. But there’s little point in going to that additional expense when using weighted flies – a straight leader, as you’ve suggested, is fine.

As to knots to connect the fly a whole range will work. I suppose I’ve always favoured a Uni-knot and often, certainly at the start of the day, will not tighten it fully, leaving a small loop that helps the fly to ‘work’.
The other Dave
PS Get to try it out ‘in anger’ in just under a month’s time. I’ll be fishing off Montauk on the tip of Long Island for hopefully BIG Striped Bass. Got some Red Drum (North Carolina) and King Salmon (migrating 'stockies' out of Lake Ontario) also to have a go at.

[TomBettle]

OK Dave

Now you are making me very jealous.
My first attempt at catching a Bass on the flood tide at the entrance to a Lagoon down here in Poole Harbour never even got going on Saturday.
All the gear was ready, new chesties waiting to "slip" into.
I just had to launch a new boat first and run through some initial start up checks before going for a spot of fluff chucking.
Well we launched the boat (stunning by the way) with the hoist, I drifted her alongside the fuel pontoon and filled her up, primed and started the engine, engaged gear and went to pull away....

.... Hmmmm interesting.... The beautiful V6 Suzuki 250Hp engine turned to port when I turned to starboard and vice versa. OK simple to fix, but interesting coming along side (imagine driving a boat whilst looking in a mirror). Swap the hydraulic pipes over with minimal fuss and had another go. Fine except you needed to be Geoff Capes to turn the wheel.
After bleeding the system, loosening the bolts on the hinge bit at the engine, swapping the ram, swapping the pump and just about giving up I dscover the whole problem was down to a crushed connection on the hydraulic hose behind the steering boss.
Three days later and the new hose arrives today, customers handover postponed until tomorrow due to a heavy clean-up operation required and then the boat show starts, followed by a further three weeks of open weekends.

I won't get to use my lovely new gear until the end of October!!!
Does anyone fish the fly for Bass into the Winter?

Tom
Knackered, frustrated, fishless

[dean_gifford]

Why not try in your local dock for mullet at dusk, ive had 2 this week on a 5-6# fly rod, both 5lb +, 15min battle, heart racing, line screaming. Ausum!

[hearme]

I have been fly fishing for 19 years now mostly still water and stream, though ihave had my time with salt waterfly.

haveing read through your posts and answers, you are along the right lines, but don't get caught up too much in line weights etc.
The trick is in the tech not power if you try to power cast you will fail.

Start of in a field and spend 3-4 hours dry casting untill your arms start to learn the tech then add a pike fly the same weight as a sandeel fly.
imagine casting from 9 o'clock through to 2 o'clock and return using the wrist to make the cast.

Once there start on your choen mark but remember the rod will control a fish as large as bass and pollock.
Just don't make the mistake of trying to land immediately. You have to playthe fish untill you win and keep the rod tip high, using a landing net where possable.
My chosen rod is also a greys rod 5/6 and 6/7 they are all good strong rods and have taken 5lb bass with no reel problem..
If you want mre advice just ask.

[Pelamid]

I am not much of a fly caster but I was advised in Florida to avoid long rods.
An 11ft Bruce & Walker sea trout rod did not work for me at all - a cheap, stiff 8' 9''
8/9 weight pushed a weight forward line into the wind no bother.
Still cannot cast pike flies though. My problem - not the rod.