Greenore gets thumbs down!

[arvanduin]

Went to Greenore, Co. Louth on Sunday 15 August: can't see what all the fuss is about this place being a good venue :confused: Not a venue I would recommend at all!

Really disappointing day's fishing. :(
Only a very few mackerel were being caught by the crowds on the shore. Shore was very congested (but people very friendly) Lots of kids messing about.
Lures and rigs whizzing through the air in all directions. Lost count of the number of times my line was fouled by crossed lines.

Rubbish on shore and in water. Hooked several submerged items of rubbish, including bin bags, a nappy, a shoe and a condom (not a flying C but an actual contraceptive!) :(

Water traffic was awful: powerboats, speed boats, fishing boats and waterskiers, close to shore. Large cargo ships frequently passing. :mad:

All this must scare the hell out of any fish present. :eek:

Plus points: nice scenery looking out to sea and at mountains (don't look behind you from the shore: derelict buildings and ugly harbour. Friendly people and there is car park right by the shore.

In general, thumbs down: I will not be back (Fish are probably of the same opinion: well they don't have thumbs, but you know what I mean).

If you want a relaxing, good day's fishing: forget going to Greenore (Co. Louth).

PS Since writng this post I am aware that there may have been some confusion arising from the fact that there is also a place called Greenore in Co. Wexford (which, although I have not visited the place, I believe it has very good bass fishing).

I have since edited the post to refer to Greenore Co. Louth

[Headlander]

I am visiting Strangford Lough at the beginning of September and intend to bring some fishing gear across from England. What should I bring? Beachcaster, Bass rod, Spinning Gear? What am I most likely to catch in the Lough or surrounding areas and is bait readily available locally to collect (crabs) or dig?

Similarly, what is the charter boat scene like and how easy would it be for me to tag on to a party as an indivdual or pair.

Not very taxing questions I know, but any information would be most greatly appreciated.

[Mick the Fish]

Hello,

I'm glad you didn't catch anything on Greenore! I'll have more room for myself now! Only kidding. If you were getting crossed lines, perhaps you should have moved down the beach a little? Most of the mackerel bashers fish up near the pier end of the strand. If you had moved down a couple of hundred yards towards the mouth of the lough, you would have had more room. Although, this year has been exceptionally busy for some reason, I'll give you that!

I'm interested in what way you fished? Were you fishing bait or lures?

I'll be interested in hearing your thoughts, as I catch here regularly!

Mick

[arvanduin]

Hi there,

I guess I sounded a bit harsh about what, at other times, may be a rather pleasant place with reasonable fishing. I tried fishing along the shore from the rocks and rubble near the pier and at various points along the shore for about 300yds. The shore was really crowded. I did on a few occasions find a spot with plenty of elbow room but I was soon sandwiched by flailing lure lobbers and hokkai hurlers and was entangled several times by enthusiastic, but not quite co-ordinated casters. Well, as they say, it's a free country and those happy people have just as much right to be there as the author of this entry (my wife calls me Victor Meldrew in waders!)

I was doing a bit of mackerel bashing, both for bait fish and to bring home to eat (great eating!). I did manage to catch a few small mackerel on small spinners and lures. These were returned to grow a bit bigger and to fight another day. I used the following terminal tackle:

Weighted mackerel spinners (various colours) (7g)
Delta Dervish rotating lure (18g)
Small Dexter Wedge (20g)
Small metal sandeel imitations in blue/green and gold/silver (15g and 20g)

Various 3-hook (size1) Hokkais, mackerel flashers and tinsel lures with either a 50g lead weight or a 32g Dexter wedge (acting as a weight/lure combo that might attract a bigger fish).

I guess I covered the field pretty well but still had poor returns.

Didn't have any bait left from a day's fishing on Saturday (a great day's fishing on the South Down Coast near Ardglass) and I didn't think I needed to bring any of the mackerel caught the day before, as I was sure there would be loads of mackerel at Greenore. I ended up not using bait to fish and ended the day casting a combination of plugs and poppers to see if I could entice a nice bass as evening fell. I suppose I could have walked further along the beach but by this time I was a bit fed up and there were no quiet spots on the shore as far as the eye could see. Is it really possible to bag a bass with such disruption from a crowded shore and watercraft constantly passing close to shore?

Maybe I will try again on a week day, but I guess the rubbish (plastic bags, bottles, cans etc.) on the shore that I encountered on the Sunday may still be present during the week. Does Louth Co. council not have an interest in cleaning this place up? I still maintain that I will not return on a weekend and would advise anyone with an interest in having an enjoyable day's fishing to do the same. I'll leave the place for the enjoyment of the happy mackerel bashers (really nice people I must add!)

Greenore is only a few casts away from Carlingford, a place that has been spruced up so much in the past few years.

I think I have vented my spleen as much as I care to on this matter and would not like to take up any more space on this great web site; leaving room for positive comments on really good marks.

I guess I was grumpy as I wrote: I just read an article in a Sunday newspaper about the incredible number of mackerel being caught on the west coast! I suppose it was a case of tasting sour grapes rather than the pan-fried mackerel with lemon and mustard mash I was looking forward to!

Regards.

[Mick the Fish]

I'm stunned!!! As I've stated, greenore and balagan are very much my stomping grounds. I've had some cracking fishing along here. Like yourself, I'm not really into fishing among crowds so I usually just carry a fly rod and walk towards the mouth of the lough at Balagan and fish for bass there. My best this year is 8 1/4lb!! So if that stamp of fish is big enough for you, then yes there are big bass to be caught!

As to the mackerel fishing, I took 14 on fly there last week! I don't know if you read Total Sea Fishing, but I fished there a couple of weeks ago with Dave Barham and Daz Taylor. The lads were bottom fishing for bass or rays and to pass the time we set up for some mackerel fishing. Dave was on the spinners, Daz was float fished mackerel strip while I fly fished and we hooked and returned literally dozens of fish in a couple of hours!

Your comment about the beach being dirty is a new one on me. This is a very picturesque part of the country and is usually very clean. I will be investigating this further and I intend to notify the council of the problem. Thanks for the tip off!

Good fishing!

Mick

[fergal]

theres really only one way to settle this... fishin at greenore!!!
im up for heading down the first weekend of september with the fly rod. i've never fished the place but if anyone else fancies heading down we could have the first WSF IRELAND fishin??? what you all think

[Mick the Fish]

Sounds good Fergal! Count me in. Hopefully the weather will hold.

Mick

[fergal]

nice one mick i'll get a few flies tied up and keep an eye on the weather

[arvanduin]

I have returned twice to Greenore, Co. Louth since the day I referred to in my original post with a view to experiencing the place in a better light and being prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, I am pressed by what I experienced there to make comment.

On two afternoons and evenings, I fished the length of Greenore strand (still a popular location but with more elbow room during the week). I was alarmed to see several rather well-fed rats scuttling about the shore as darkness fell and the strand emptied :eek: .

Not a place I would be happy to bring kids and I certainly wouldn't be happy about eating a sandwich or rubbing my eyes without thoroughly scrubbing my hands after handling tackle that has been lying on the shore (Weil's disease can be contracted from infected rats' urine).

See article below from a local newspaper, The Newry Democrat (July 2005). The article appears to be a bit sexist (if the author is refering to his partner/wife in parts) but otherwise comments on Greenore concur with my own observations.


The Newry Democrat: Wednesday, July 20, 2005:
Angling: A day at the seaside


WELL, over the last week, with the lovely weather we’ve been having, a lot of anglers are turning to the sea for a bit of sport, and that includes yours truly.

My first outing was on Sunday, to Temple Town. A great spot - while the rest of the family swam in the sea; I cast my lines out and waited for a bite.

The Dragon was a bit wary about going in too deep, in case her fire got put out. No such luck, as all I heard was her roar and those familiar words “I thought this was a family day out.”

“Are we all here?” I replied.

“Don’t get smart with me!” she retorted with a quick snap of her jaws. I know when to stop (when the smoke starts pouring from her enflamed nostrils).

We went down at about six in the evening to avoid the hot sun. After about four and a half hours of crab ruining my efforts by nicking my bait, I was starting to get a bit anxious as the tide was coming in. Out of the blue the sea suddenly came alive, with fry jumping out of the water and completely surrounding me, the Dragon and Conor. At first I thought it was Mackerel that had chased this shoal of fry into the shallow water but there was no sign of the Mackerel. But I switched to feathers anyway, as the fry seemed reluctant to move and were constantly jumping to keep clear of what ever was chasing them. I carried on casting, with a rig of white feathers, and reeling them back constantly for well over half an hour with no luck and the dragon constantly telling it was time to go and put the kids to bed.

I finally packed up with nothing but a sore ear to show for my efforts. I started talking to a local angler who informed me that it was probably Sea Bass chasing the fry. I had bought some preserved Rag Worm to see if they would be any good to stock in the shop. But after my session I have decided stocking them was not such a good idea - they turned out to be very expensive crab bait.

On Tuesday I thought I’d make it up to the Dragon and said “Sorry about Sunday. Why don’t we make a family day and go to the beach for some real fun?”

“Great.” she replied. I told her to go in her car and I would follow shortly in mine.

I arrived a little later with a car full of fishing gear. “I thought we were going to have a family day out.” pipes up the dragon

“We are - we’re all fishing.”

I could see by the look her face she really wanted to be fishing (not.), especially as she walked off with the kids. Hooray, I had four rods to fish with. But I decided to just use the best two. This time I was better prepared for the sea bass with Sand Eels (which are, in my opinion, one of the best baits for Sea Bass) and Peeler Crabs. I had a few casts early on and then took a rest to wait for the tide to turn.

I thought I’d spend some time with the family. I invented a new game called “Catch the Child and use them as Bait”. But the kids just wanted to play annoy daddy and the Dragon joined in. It was about 9:30 in the evening when the missus said she was going home and would take the kids with her. I asked her if she was really sure she had to go as I was enjoying her company (not.). Needless to say, I didn’t push her to stay on any longer.

Hooray (again) - peace and quiet, or so I thought. But unfortunately there were a load of people who were still swimming in the water at 11.30 p.m. Having no luck I decided to go to Greenore. I was just putting my rods in the car when I heard a voice saying “Hi Mark.” It was Joe Clark, his wife and brother-in-law (whose name escapes me - as regular readers will know, there’s nothing new in that). I sometimes forget Martin McAleenan’s name - but that is possibly because I try my hardest to forget about him.

After telling them I was going to Greenore for a bit of Macky Bashing, as it had been so poor at Temple Town, they decided to come with me. On arrival at Greenore, Joe’s wife was very concerned about the large rats that live round and about the beach front. She was telling me that there are hundreds of big rats by the rocks, and if we were to come back in the morning you can see all their towels on the best spots (they’re even quicker off the mark than the Germans). After about half an hour, having lost a rig of feathers and not being able to see anything as there was no moonlight, I went home with nothing for breakfast.

There have been a number of Mackerel caught at Greenore and Greencastle over the last week and this year there seems to be more people out to catch them. But remember there are other types of fish in Carlingford Lough. Like Dogfish, Codling, Mullet, FlatFish, Sea Bass, Sea Trout and many other varieties.

Perhaps the author of the newspaper article and myself would have had more luck if we had fished lures in the shape of a rat (like those used in pike fishing!)


I also fished Templetown & Balagan: somewhat cleaner (with regard to rubbish) but high tackle loss on mixed rocky/weedy gound. Mackerel and doggies (thankfully no rats or Weil's disease) caught, but no bass, despite lure and bait fishing.

The caravan park at Templetown is really convenient for the shore and the scenery is very pleasing. However, there have been reports of anglers' cars being broken into in this area :( . Community alert notices are apparent in this location.

Well, I came, I saw, I commented, returned twice and I am still of the opinion, if not more so, that Greenore shore gets the thumbs down as a fishing and recreational venue. This may contrast markedly with the golfing facilities nearby (privately managed?).

The Greenore shore area appears to have developed little (with exception of the car park) since the times when I used to visit as a child in the 1960's. In fact, with the decay of the old hotel and its environs and the detritus and vermin present, I would say that this necrotic part of the Celtic Tiger needs immediate attention. Dundalk and its immediate environs has successfully struggled to emerge from its image in the 70's and 80's as a dull, decaying location (perceived by many as an oft-used a bolt-hole for those on the wrong side of the law in the North of Ireland) and a place best quickly passed through en route from Dublin to Newry & Belfast.

Carlingford and parts of Dundalk have greatly improved in the past years and are places that have invested in and embrace tourism: it's just a pity that some of the resources could not have been spent to make Greenore a cleaner and more welcoming place. It's more of a shame, because anyone I have met there has been friendly and helpful (but many have been critical of the place).

Sorry to all those anglers and locals who this may offend and the best of luck and congratulations to those who have had good fishing there. Long may your good fortune continue.

[Mick the Fish]

It's interesting to read your comments about my 3 main marks! Greenore, Balagan and Templetown. I think maybe you'd be more at home at a tree hugging conference than angling for bass. Your willingness to voice your angling ignorance astounds me! Anyone that has ever even seen Balagan would know that there are going to be tackle losses here. It's ROCKS covered in WEED!! That is why it's fished with flies and poppers. Make sense?

As for your comments about the rats and the rubbish at Greenore, quite frankly I don't believe you. In 10 years fishing along here I've never seen a rat and very little rubbish! Post photos of both and I'll eat my words. As for your friend who noticed the fry jumping clear of the water, but did not see any mackerel would the logical explanation not be bass? If he had put on a small chug bug or even fly fished he would have taken bass, but he kept on battering away with feathers? Hmmmm... I've experienced the same event here myself and caught five bass in about 45 mins!

Don't even get me started about your comments about Dundalk. This is my home town and any derogatory comments you may have should surely be aired in some other forum where people are interested in that sort of thing. I think your time would be better spent reading the excellent articles on this site on how to actually fish rather than slagging off some very good fishing marks.

If anyone reading this has any positive comments to make about Carlingford lough and it's adjacent marks don't hesitate to contact me!

All the best,

Mick

[MarieK]

Well...

Not to be one to take sides but I must say that my experience of Carlingford lough has always been delightful. I fish there mostly by boat and occasionally shore, usually with my dad who also used to go there as a child. I think its perhaps a good thing that this area has kept a bit of character rather than being Tiger-ised.

The main point id like to make here is that surely our number one concern is what is under the water not above it. We should be thankful that there are a few fish there to catch!

Speaking of which! The Irish record Tope was caught in Carlingford lough and I was reading that they like rats, maybe one of you boys could catch me some bait??

Mariek!

[fergal]

i haven't fished the area before but i do know the area quite well. dundalk especially i a lovely town, i used to go with a girl from there and spent many weekends in the town. i was hoping to head down this weekend for a spot of fishing but work commitments mean i'll not be able to get down for the next few weeks but i'll definatly try to get down sometime soon

[Mick the Fish]

Folks, thank you for your comments! It's good to get some positive feedback from some people who seem to know their sport! Mariek, your comment about what's under the water is an excellent one. I couldn't agree more! Hopefully I'll meet you both on the beach someday. (I'll try to get you some rats from the local grainstore, because you won't find many at Greenore!)

All the best,

Mick

Ps. Mariek I got bitten off at Greenore shore last week using a large squid & sandeel bait for bass and ray! Whatever it was bit clean through 30lb mono! Tope perhaps?

[Tope-on-a-Rope]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum but have been enjoying the info and tips on this forum for a few months now.

I thought I would add to and maybe close the ongoing debate about Greenore. I have been to Greenore five times since reading about it in a submission from Mick the Fish. At times this summer the fishing here has been good (mackerel and dogfish) and I was inspired by Mick's articles to go fishing for Bass using poppers.

I have really enjoyed Mick's contributions and he seems to certainly know his stuff about bass. I think I'll buy a fly fishing outfit and do a bit of fly-fishing on Carlingford Lough next year. Any tips welcome Mick. I went fishing with a popper at Templetown and despite having no luck during a fairly short session at low tide (and losing a nearly new Yozuri Mag popper following a poor cast: nearly cried when this happened) I reckon this place is a good bass haunt like Mick says.

However, in fairness to Arvandun who I think I met one busy Sunday at Greenore, I agree with him on a few points about Greenore. At weekends the beach at Greenore can be very crowded and there is a lot of activity on the water as he described. Fair point

I have actually seen a rat on one occasion that was eating left over sandwiches on the beach. However, this was only on one occasion. Fair point

The bit about the non flying condom in his article was a laugh. While I have never caught one (what bait were you using Arvandun? Perhaps I shouldn't ask!), I have noticed that the car park by the beach is used by the steamy window brigade and I supose you couldn't rule out catching the odd durex on a warm summer's night! Fair Point

From my reading of the comments made about Dundalk etc. I believe Arvandun was talking about how the area has improved so much and really is in gear when it comes to tourism and welcoming people. I don't think any derogatory comments about Dundalk as it is today were intended or made. I like the place and it has really improved in the past 20 years, like a lot of other places in Ireland. So any would-be visitors reading this thread please take note.

I would say to Mick that comments made by Arvandun about Greenore shouldn't be taken personally. I know from your posts that this your stomping ground, but the guy seemed to be making valid comments on several matters. I think as anglers we should be concerned and care for what happens on and around our waterways and seas in Ireland as well as what happens below the surface. After all, we want our fish stocks to be preserved and protected from pollution, disturbance of breeding grounds etc. for this generation and generations to come. Yes, you've guessed it I'm a bit of a tree hugger too, but who says tree huggers don't make good anglers.

About the bite-off you had Mick - I would like to think it's a tope and I'd be keen to have a go at catching tope from the shore on Carlingford Lough. Any tips from you would be really appreciated so if you could post a few tips it would be a great help.

All the best,

Tope-on-a-Rope

PS if anyone finds a Yozuri Mag Popper (nearly new) at Templetown, they are welcome to it and I hope it catches them a good size bass.

[arvanduin]

Thanks for balancing the debate Tope-on-a-Rope. A reasoned approach in these matters is much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time read the posts and to explain to the forum some of the points I made as well as sharing your observations.Your response on how anglers should be concerned about what goes on around our waterways and shores should be taken on board by all anglers (not just the 'Tree-Huggers') who have a genuine concern for conserving our fishing and having a genuine and forward-thinking concern for the environment. What I aim to say is that anglers should not just be focused on catching fish without giving what goes on around their fishing venues a second thought. It is up to us to voice our concerns about factors that affect our fishing: just look at the stirling work Irish Angler Magazine does at highlighting such issues.

On this note, I have recently heard some disturbing news about Greenore being contaminated by an illegal shipment of harmful genetically modified grain. I was told by a colleague at work about the unloading and spillage of over 2,000 tons of illegal (and dangerous) Genetically Modified (GM) maize at Greenore (Co. Louth).

The catastrophe made international news earlier this year and I believe it should be brought to the attention of anyone with an interest in fishing at this venue. Has anyone else heard of this catastrophe? Surely local contributors to this forum would have known about this, as it was international news.


See news report below:


2,546 tonnes of prohibited Syngenta Bt10 maize unloaded at Irish port

Department of Agriculture accused of slapdash procedures

and cover-up



http://www.gmfreeireland.org/gifs/Bt10/GMshipMD.gif

Illegal Bt10 maize being unloaded at Greenore, Ireland, 26 May 2005


An illegal shipment of 2,546 tonnes of genetically modified Bt10 maize was unloaded at Greenore, Co. Louth on 26 May 2005.

The Bt10 maize, manufactured by Syngenta, has been mislabelled since 2001 as a legal variety called Bt11. Bt10 maize produces its own pesticide and is prohibited world-wide because it contains an antibiotic resistance gene which threatens the health of animals and humans.

In an attempt to cover-up the scandal, the Irish Department of Agriculture and Food issued a press release which referred to the illegal Bt10 shipment as a "sample", failing to disclose the quantity of 2,546 tonnes - enough to fill over 85 lorries, and contaminate over six million cattle and sheep.

But instead of returning the illegal cargo to the sender in the USA, Department of Agriculture officials arrived on the scene after the shipment had already been brought ashore. Eyewitnesses say it was improperly unloaded through the same equipment, vehicles and storage facilities used for other animal feed, which may thus be cross-contaminated. Substantial spillage of the dangerous animal feed has likely been consumed by rats, mice, seagulls, migratory birds and fish.

Local eyewitnesses report that Department of Agriculture officials arrived on the scene late, after the shipment had already been brought ashore. They also said the Bt10 consignment was improperly unloaded through the same hopper, transport vehicles and storage facilities used for legal GM and non-GM animal feed, which have thus been cross-contaminated by the banned Bt10. It is unclear if the cargo was then cleared by Customs. The tainted animal feed is now stored in a shed at the Greenore.

Speaking in Berlin on Thursday, German Minister for Consumer Protection, Food and Agriculture Renate Kunast called for the shipment to be destroyed because it is illegal in every country on Earth. She said "this incident shows that the EU must keep its strong measures; the US authorities must guarantee that their controls are functioning before such shipments leave the US, and not just after they arrive in Europe.”

The Bt10 maize, patented by the Swiss agri-biotech firm Syngenta, is prohibited in the USA and Europe because it contains an Ampicillin resistance marker gene which may confer resistance to this common antibiotic used to treat bacterial infections. This could create new "superdiseases" with no possibility of cure. According to an Opinion issued by the European Food Safety Authority Scientific Panel on Genetically Modified Organisms in 2004, "Ampicillin resistance marker genes should not be present in GM plants to be placed on the market". No official information has been forthcoming regarding the Ampicillin resistance marker gene in Bt10, nor any attempt to ascertain whether the marker gene has contaminated other GM and conventional varieties of maize which are routinely sold to Irish farmers to feed their cattle and sheep.

Moreover, like many GMO crops, Bt10 maize also produces its own insecticide. According to the (US) Institute for Responsible Technology, transgenic DNA from GM plants has been found to survive digestion and become lodged inside otherwise harmless bacteria that live in the human digestive system. The risk is that this could turn people into living pesticide factories.

I was not aware of this disaster (I was on holidays abroad when the event happened) until a friend at work informed me about it a few days ago when I told him I had fished at Greenore several times last month. My stomach turned when I heard the news and I was so glad that I hadn't brought my family along with me.

The question is.....Would you feel comfortable fishing in a place that has been contaminated with such a harmful substance? I certainly wouldn't! Reports indicate that the dangerous feed has been consumed by fish in the Greenore/Carlingford Lough area. I certainly will not be fishing in this area again!

[Tope-on-a-Rope]

Arvanduin (I think I spelt your handle wrong last time-apologies) thanks for the post on the GM maize contamination. This is a very sad case which should be brought to the attention of more people. I think it is right to highlight cases like this rather than pretend we are fishing in an angler's paradise: look at the problem of drift-netting (legal & illegal) that is costing Ireland millions of Euros a year in lost income from visiting anglers. Ireland is becoming the pariah of Europe on this matter, all we need now is our stocks to be contaminated by pollution or GM contamination. I read that the Carlingford area has been the subject of investigations into radioactive waste and localised cancer hot spots since the 1990's. I'm not sure if there has been an outcome to this investigation. All we need now is some rogue trader from the USA dumping ilegal GM waste on our shores (and in our waters).

I wonder what effect the GM maize can have on fish in the area? As a precaution I wouldn't intend eating any fish caught here. From what I understand of Genetic Manipulation the genes that code for certain attributes such as antibiotic resistance and pesticide production can be transfered to other species via microorganisms in the gut.

Mick-the-Fish may be able to shed some light on this matter: he's from the area so he might be able to let us know if things are as bad as reported.

Back to fishing marks. I had a great weekend's fishing in Donegal (spinning off the rocks near St. John's Point). Pollack, pollack and more pollack. The pollack were out of this world and went mad for Berkly Firetails. At its peak, I caught eight pollock in an hour and a half hours (best weight just over 6lb). They fought like crazy. I went home with sore arms and a huge smile. Who needs Prozac when you have mean pollack like this for the taking!! I would recommend good boots for this area and also going with a buddy or two for thae sake of safety. A floatation jacket and maybe even a bouyancy aid or 150N life jacket (automatic) would not be a bad idea either as the area can be a bit treacherous if a swell develops. As always check the forecast and tides before heading out.

[arvanduin]

Following Tope-on-a-Rope's post in which he mentioned an investigation into radioactive waste in Carlingford Lough, I found the article below. I think this must be the report he was referring to. I'm no expert in these things but, if the report is correct, then Carlingford Lough is facing more problems than just contamination from genetically modified maize!


Report from Radioactive Times Volume 3, Number 1, March 1999

Carlingford and Dundalk

Chris Busby and Molly Scott Cato recently visited County Louth on the east coast of Ireland to take samples for measurement of radioactivity and also to interview GPs in the town of Dundalk and on the Cooley peninsula. The question of health effects from Sellafield pollution on the Irish coast is one of the most lively issues in the area.


In the 1980s, a Dundalk doctor, Patricia Sheehan, discovered a cluster of Downe’s syndrome children born to young mothers who had been at boarding school in Dundalk together and who she believed had been contaminated by the Windscale (Sellafield) fire fallout in 1957. Her paper in the British Medical Journal was the first to draw attention to radioactivity effects in Dundalk.

Tragically, Dr Sheehan died in a car accident a few years ago but her work has been followed up by another local GP Dr Mary Grahan. Three years ago, Dr Grahan discovered anomalously low levels of Vitamin B12 in women in the town and neighbourhood of Dundalk and believes that her discovery is connected with the Windscale fire (RaT 1/3, p. 9). She told Chris Busby that she believed that the cancer rates in Dundalk were much higher than average near the river and also on the coast. Although Green Audit has applied to the recently formed Irish National Cancer Registry for the small area figures for 1995 and 1994 (currently in preparation), it is not certain when they will become available. In the meantime, Dr Sheehan has agreed to assist Green Audit setting up a survey of cancer incidence in the town of Dundalk. It is hoped that this can begin this year, 1999.

Radioisotopes from Sellafield are easily measurable in mud and sand from the beaches near Dundalk and also further up the coast in Carlingford Lough.

Cancer in Carlingford is apparently also higher (see RaT 2/3, p. 1) with Relative Risks as high as 4.6 or more for Childhood leukemia. The team spent some time measuring alpha activity of beach and river mud and silt at different depths and recording variations of activity across the ‘kentering’: the area between low and high tide levels. Samples were collected and brought back for radiochemical analysis.

The concern is that ‘hot particles’ of plutonium may be collecting on the beach and offshore mudbanks and blowing inland, where they may be inhaled and provide high local doses people living in the area.

The effect of distance from Sellafield on the concentration of radioactive waste released to the Irish Sea is not simple. Because the isotopes stick to fine silt particles preferentially, it is the distribution of the fine silt in the Irish Sea that determines the level of pollution. Fine silt precipitates out in areas of low tidal energy, like estuaries and harbours. The silt comes up rivers and is deposited at high tides on saltmarsh. Tidal flow the Irish Sea results in some areas of water where there is no net current. The major area where this occurs is off the north-east of Ireland, near Dundalk Bay and Carlingford. This is where radioactive fine silty mud precipitates and where there are large offshore drying mudflats.

I'll let readers make up their own minds on this and it how it effects fish in the Greenore, Carlingford, Dundalk area of Co. Louth.

All the best,

Arvanduin

[Mick the Fish]

Arvanduin,

You certainly do your homework! Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor the inclination to argue! We'll have to agree to disagree!

I'll just keep on catching bass, mackerel, sea trout, an occasional mullet, tope, ray, dogfish and codling from the radioactive, rat-infested, rubbish strewn and fishless sess pool that is Carlingford lough. But then again, I'm from Dundalk, so I must be used to those conditions anyway.....

Signing off on this thread!

Mick

Ps. People please visit Carlingford Lough for yourselves and make up your own minds.

[raymondo]

once heard dundalk descibed as "dodge city with guiness"

[glengormley-gavin]

Guys,

has Mick the Fish done something to you all in a previous life? Give the guy a break - he is not responsible for any of the problems that may or may not be in the area.

He catches good fish and enjoys the area, not something we can all claim about our own areas.

Mick - I've now made a point of visiting this area in the near future.

Tight lines!!!

GG

[arvanduin]

I would never have realised that when I started this thread that it would have been so controversial and turned up such disturbing reports of pollution of waters in the Carlingford-Greenore-Dundalk area from radioactive waste such as plutonium and illegal Genetically Modified material. Far from delighting in scoring points to win an argument, I am very much saddened that research on this area has uncovered such shocking incidences of pollution. I think it is quite obvious that there has never been any inference that Mick the Fish is in any way responsible for the pollution in the area (how could he be?) and no-one doubts that the guy is a first rate angler: I really enjoyed and learned from his posts on techniques and the article on bass fishing (like Tope-on-a-Rope I think I will buy a fly fishing outfit to fish for bass and pollack next year!).

However, my point is that local anglers must have been aware of these issues and if, like many of us, they feel strongly about their angling and the environment where they fish and maybe live then what have they done to try to highlight the pollution and potential long-term destruction of a habitat on their doorstep? It is one thing to advise on catch and release and another to live in denial or be complacent about pollutants like radioactive waste and illegal GM products in the waters in which we fish. These things just don't go away! The contamination has happened and will continue to happen if not highlighted, challenged and prevented.

I don't agree with Mick the Fish when he calls Carlingford a cess pool, it is a beautiful part of the country (with a few areas thereabouts less so) that has been damaged by pollution and is in danger of being further damaged and ultimately destroyed if further pollution is permitted to occur. If anyone has been following the thread, this has been my only reference to disagreement with a named individual.

Carlingford is not (as far I know) the sole preserve of a handful of anglers: it's for us all to enjoy. Do you not think it is reasonable to say that if we are to enjoy it we should have respect for it and have a certain duty to make it a better place?

So come on guys, wake up and smell the coffee: take off the anglers' blinkers and don't get all truculent and taking things personally. Put the old egos on hold for a while and distinguish between criticism of a place (and an apparent social culture of complacency) and criticism of individuals, but most of all acknowledge that a problem exists and get out there and do something about it before it gets worse.

[arvanduin]

I’m afraid it’s more disturbing news about Carlingford Lough and Greenore. This time concerns raised in a Finnish study about the effects of radioactive waste and a European Commission request to Ireland following discovery of highly toxic chemicals at Greenore port and Carlingford Lough.

Carlingford Radiation makes news in Finland

Scientists from Finland studying the effects of radioactive waste have made the following statement:

We examined closely a part of Ireland, Carlingford, on the east coast. Using data from a local GP we were able to identify leukemia and brain tumour excess in the period 1960-1986. We also conducted a questionnaire study in the area which revealed that the sea coast effect existed as close as 100 metres from the sea. People living within 100metres from the sea had almost four times the probability of developing cancer than those living more than 1000 metres.

This follows on from another study, which demonstrated that Greenore/Carlingford had the highest levels in Ireland of a certain type of man-made radiation, Technetium-99, which finds its way into the Irish sea as radioactive waste from Sellafield (see attached diagram). The study looked at radioactive isotopes in seaweed around the Irish coast. Claims have also been made that the Irish sea is one of the most radioactive seas in the world with radioactive hotspots occurring in the Carlingford Lough area around Greenore and Carlingford due to radioactive waste from Sellafield and tidal patterns and makeup of sediment in this area.


The European Commission has concerns about presence of highly toxic chemicals at Greenore Port and in Carlingford Lough

The European Commission has decided to send a formal request to Ireland to require and prepare anti-pollution programmes for waters designated for shellfish in accordance the Shellfish Water Directive. In the absence of a satisfactory response within two months of receipt, the Commission may decide to refer Ireland to the Court of Justice.

Commenting on the decision, the Environment Commissioner Margot Wallström, said: "Clean waters that support shellfish are amongst Ireland's assets. The absence of specific programmes to safeguard them is a disappointment, especially given developments such as the recent discovery of PCBs in Carlingford Lough"

The decision follows an investigation into a complaint that Ireland has not adopted any anti-pollution programmes. Irish legislation only provides for programmes where problems have already arisen, whereas, in the Commission's view, programmes should be prepared as a matter of course to help avoid pollution occurring in the first place. The value of adopting a preventive approach is illustrated by the collapse of a shellfishery in Mulroy Bay in the early 1990s due to avoidable pollution.

More recently, illegal waste disposal and the discovery of highly toxic polychlorinated biphenyls (PCBs) at Greenore Port in Carlingford Lough - near a designated shellfishery further illustrate the need for vigilance.

[Tope-on-a-Rope]

Arvanduin,

Thanks for the info. and well done in keeping us informed about the scandalous state of affairs in Carlingford Lough. I have checked up on a few of the points you highlight and they all tally: Carlingford Lough is being polluted from several sources.

I find it disappointing that Mick-the-Fish, after taking quite a few swipes at you for highlighting serious pollution and possible health issues in his own backyard has now gone silent faced with what is overwhelming evidence that Carlingford Lough has been subjected to pollution from many sources over the years. By all accounts, the lough continues to be polluted by toxic chemicals in addition to the radiation and illegal and hazardous genetically modified pollutant. The evidence appears to be well researched and clearly presented by Arvanduin, for which I'm sure we are all (or most of us are) grateful to him. So, what do you disagree with when you said that you would agree to disagree with Arvanduin?

Mick, as this is your stomping ground, do you not care for your fishing environment? Were you not aware of what was happening to Carlingford Lough in the past years? Do you not want to take local action to prevent the pollution and possible destruction of your fishing marks? Have you sought to take action or highlight these matters with your local representatives?

I'm sure we would all support a local drive to address these matters and I think there would be no-one here better placed to raise the issues with local government officials (I note you did say in a previous contribution that you would raise litter problems on Greenore beach with Louth council).

So are you up to it Mick? Your article on bass fishing demonstrates that you are articulate and have a passion for fishing with which we all can identify and share with you, but would you not think of using your communication skills to persuade those with authority (e.g. those in local and national government) to take action to prevent pollution of Carlingford Lough?

Lets see you create a bit of 'splutter and pop' on this issue.

Has anyone else on the forum info to add on the pollution of Carlingford Lough?

[MarieK]

Its understandable that everyone is passionate about their sport and for us pollution is the number one enemy - but lets try and keep things pleasant and not get too vindictive, we are all here for a bit of craic and no pressure!


MarieK

[Mick the Fish]

Guys,

I've been away for a while and I've just seen all your posts! I'm flabbergasted at the interest this has caused!

Of course, I'm interested in what happens in my area. I just haven't got the time to make longwinded posts on this website!

Mariek, I would really love to fish with you sometime as we both seem to have the same outlook! Thanks for the support. I did not intentionally have a go at anyone on here. Everything was done tongue in cheek as far as I was concerned!

Would it not be more enjoyable to have a relaxed atmosphere on this site? The real world is depressing enough with the virtual one following suit!

All the best,

Mick

[glengormley-gavin]

Arvanduin,

Thanks for the info. and well done in keeping us informed about the scandalous state of affairs in Carlingford Lough. I have checked up on a few of the points you highlight and they all tally: Carlingford Lough is being polluted from several sources.

I find it disappointing that Mick-the-Fish, after taking quite a few swipes at you for highlighting serious pollution and possible health issues in his own backyard has now gone silent faced with what is overwhelming evidence that Carlingford Lough has been subjected to pollution from many sources over the years. By all accounts, the lough continues to be polluted by toxic chemicals in addition to the radiation and illegal and hazardous genetically modified pollutant. The evidence appears to be well researched and clearly presented by Arvanduin, for which I'm sure we are all (or most of us are) grateful to him. So, what do you disagree with when you said that you would agree to disagree with Arvanduin?

Mick, as this is your stomping ground, do you not care for your fishing environment? Were you not aware of what was happening to Carlingford Lough in the past years? Do you not want to take local action to prevent the pollution and possible destruction of your fishing marks? Have you sought to take action or highlight these matters with your local representatives?

I'm sure we would all support a local drive to address these matters and I think there would be no-one here better placed to raise the issues with local government officials (I note you did say in a previous contribution that you would raise litter problems on Greenore beach with Louth council).

So are you up to it Mick? Your article on bass fishing demonstrates that you are articulate and have a passion for fishing with which we all can identify and share with you, but would you not think of using your communication skills to persuade those with authority (e.g. those in local and national government) to take action to prevent pollution of Carlingford Lough?

Lets see you create a bit of 'splutter and pop' on this issue.

Has anyone else on the forum info to add on the pollution of Carlingford Lough?

Tope-on-a-rope,

I think you should take your rope and do us all a big favour - are you Arvanduin in disguise?

GG

[arvanduin]

GG,

I'm not sure what you were aiming to achieve by making an insulting comment to Tope in your last post. I would that think most of the contributors to this forum would not condone insults being made to fellow contributors. Behaviour like this serves to alienate the person making the comments and may intimidate persons wishing to contribute to the forum.

There's no harm in robustly debating what you believe in and having a passion for your fishing but I think most of us here would draw the line at posting insults.

Arvanduin

(FYI, last time I looked in the mirror I wasn't wearing a mask or underpants over tights - I'm sure there's other places on the internet you could correspond with people who are into that sort of thing! ;) )

[glengormley-gavin]

Arvanduin,

The continued pressure and attacks on Mick are something that I find quite insulting and very annoying. If I was in his position I have several ideas of what I would like to do but since the truth seems to hurt some people I'll keep those thoughts to myself.

You and whoever you have recruited to your cause need take a look at yourselves and ask, could I be doing something more resourceful with my time?

I fished Carlingford Lough yesterday and found it pleasant (didn't catch anything) and didn't see anything untoward.

I, and I am sure several others from the Irish boards have heard enough about this issue.

If you want to continue your 'caped crusade' please contact the governing bodies for this area.

GG

[fergal]

arvanduin, you refered to me as an armchair angler because i told people that id read something in a magazine relivant to a topic on this forum (see bass in strangford thread). do you now decide who can insult people and who cant. last i checked it didnt say moderator beside your name.

[MarieK]

I wouldnt like to think anyone was deliberately trying to wind up another forum member im sure its not the case here!! Lets all just kiss and make up.

Today is a very sad day for me, the old man "forced" me to take the boat out of the water!!

So for a month of two anyway im at a loss, luckily I have my winter pike fishing mate Fergal, the prolific and admirably eager GG, the bass daddy Mick and everyones favourite eco-fisherman arvanduin - not a bad lot really.

It could be alot worse boys!

MarieK

[fergal]

mk, my thoughts are with you. if you must get out on the water, lough erne is a wicked sea as ardglass could ever be. pike fight harder than pollock and theres no kelp on lough erne. if you want a day out give me a pm and your welcome:)

[glengormley-gavin]

OK Guys.

All hostilities ended.

I will post to this thread no more.

GG

[Mick the Fish]

Folks,

Again, I've been away for a while. I'd totally agree with Mariek on this! Lets all kiss and make up? Well, lets just make up!!

I bet if we all met in a pub for a few pints we'd get on like a house on fire! Gavin, many thanks for standing up for me, but when I'm not fishing I still play as a rugby prop and I can assure you that I'm big and ugly enough to take care of myself! To be honest, Arvanduin's e-mails gave me a lot of amusment! I just wish I had that sort time on my hands! I can imagine the conversations between him and his fishing buddies. ''Fishing? You want me to go fishing?!! Do you realise how much research I have to get through?.........

Anyway folks this has been a heated debate but lets lighten up a little, close the laptops and get out and catch some fish!! Are we all agreed?

All the best,

Mick

[arvanduin]

Mick et al,
Couldn't agree more on the making up bit. Ill knock the :preachon: posts on the head........for the immediate future. Guess it was a case of :blahblah: with a bit of :banghead: that may have resulted in some readers :sleeping:, one or two :wah: along with a few :mad: contributors to the thread.

Had a good :lmao: when I read Mick's jest about fishing buddies and research. Nice one!

Guess I have three reasons for being able to come up with the research material: I was a research scientist for many years (although not in the field of environmental sciences) so it doesn't take much effort or time to come up with results. Having a baby of six months who specialises in late night partying that ends up giving the parents mild insomnia. Having a bit of time without distractions while chasing mythical bass on Strangford Lough ;) .

I'll not be online for a while as work takes me overseas for a few weeks (packing travel rod just in case there are some fishing opportunities).

So it's :wave: for now.

[glengormley-gavin]

All's well that ends well:) :)

GG;)

[mickmcd]

I will apologise if this message ends up in the wrong place, just new to this as you can see, anyway, I am keen to try a bit of bass fishing down round Greenore there, I am from just across the lough, and was wondering if anyone has any hints or tips.....especially this time of year,

I also heard a rumour that sea bass were spotted as far up the lough recently as Narrow Water castle, is this just a sighting of mullet or wishful thinking?

I have a good selection of lures and a couple of decent spinning rods plus waders (and a buoyancy vest), I used to fish as a kid along the Greencastle side there so I know how treachorous the lough can be.

Anyway, as I said new to this forum malarkey but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mick

[Ulsterman]

Well Mick, If Greengore is anything like how arvanduin describes it in the first post, it wouldn't be where I would expect to find bass.

[mickmcd]

Hi Ulsterman,

I am just going by what I am hearing locally, I have heard there are some bass to be had there so I am willing to give it a try if there is any chance of a fish.

I am sure we have both fished in worse places down the years.

Mick

[Ulsterman]

Aye Mick, maybe there's less activity around greengore at this time of the year.

[K2_NI]

You've still got a Chance, word is that Bass will stick around til the Water Temp drops under 9c, So get out to Carlingford! (Btw, An O.S. Map might not be a bad Idea) You shouldn't just fish a mark cos everyone else does! lol

[mickmcd]

Thanks for the temperature tip there K2, I have some new neoprene waders waiting at home to be tried out so I will probably give it a shot when I get off work next week, stuck offshore here off Africa watching hammerheads swim by and huge tuna breaking the surface, but not permitted to fish...it's heartbreaking!!!

Cheers

Mick