Spinning for bonefish?

[lucky]

What would be a good spinning set-up for bonefish on the flats as far as casting weight of rod and appropriate lures? I know a lot of people prefer to fly fish for them but I've never done any fly fishing and would be more comfortable using spinning gear. Would bucktail jigs be any good and what hook size would be suitable? From the reading I've done it seems that a reel capable of holding 200 metres of 8-10lb line is the prefered optimun but is it better to go light on the rod and lures to minimize disturbance when the lure hits the water to avoid spooking the fish or a bit heavier to help with casting when it's windy? Also is there any prefered length of spinning rod to use? At the moment I'm thinking about the 8-9 foot range.

Any info would be greatly appreciated as I'm starting to kit up for a planned future trip. Thanks in advance.

[PanamaJack]

What would be a good spinning set-up for bonefish on the flats as far as casting weight of rod and appropriate lures? I know a lot of people prefer to fly fish for them but I've never done any fly fishing and would be more comfortable using spinning gear. Would bucktail jigs be any good and what hook size would be suitable? From the reading I've done it seems that a reel capable of holding 200 metres of 8-10lb line is the prefered optimun but is it better to go light on the rod and lures to minimize disturbance when the lure hits the water to avoid spooking the fish or a bit heavier to help with casting when it's windy? Also is there any prefered length of spinning rod to use? At the moment I'm thinking about the 8-9 foot range.

Any info would be greatly appreciated as I'm starting to kit up for a planned future trip. Thanks in advance.

Hi Lucky
I guess of paramount importance with Bonefish, whether spin or fly, is the need for accurate and, at times, quick casting. Perhaps that’s going to be difficult to achieve with a 9 foot spin rod? Distance isn’t necessarily so important. Probably the majority of casts I fire off are in the 40 to 50’ range. But I have, literally in ankle deep water, caught Bones less than 18’ from me – the length of a fly rod plus a 9’ tippet.

So the spin rod I use for Bonefish is custom built on a 3 piece, 7’ Loomis blank designed to cast ¼ to ½ ounce and rated for 6 to 12lb line, although optimally 8lb test. (You’ll find all of the guides tend to be equipped with rods in the 7 to 7 ½’ range. And remember these are being supplied by manufacturers at ridiculously low prices. It’s the guide’s choice.) Any rate mine’s light in the tip and it’s got a progressive action most of which is in that top third. I have fish up to 9 1/2lbs on it, but you still get a lot of enjoyment from 2 and 3 pounders. I normally ‘flick’ single handed, but if I’m looking for slightly more distance without losing accuracy I ‘push’ and then ‘pull’ with my lower left hand. (BTW I’m right handed.)

In terms of situations – and I’ve only fished the Florida Keys, Los Roques (Venezuela), Belize and the Bahamas for them – most of the cruising fish you spot on the Flats are probably around 60/80’ away. Although, on some clean sand Flats, you can spot them as ‘black tadpoles’ literally hundreds of feet away. But they’re masters at disappearing! They don’t necessarily swim in straight lines and when they turn side ways on, with the light reflecting off their sides they become difficult to spot. Then you can, if you look closely, pick up subtle disturbances on the surface or even shadows of them on the bottom. Importantly you’ll find that swim a lot faster than you initially imagine…one thing they’re not is cruising Trout.

As well as ‘cruisers’ you’ll find the classic ‘tailers’ in shallow water. You can similarly spot those up to 100 yards away. Often the light reflects off their tails.

I guess the other situation, in deeper water, are ‘mudding’ fish. You just spot areas of discoloured water rather than the fish. Not I have to say my favourite way of fishing.

So back to ‘cruisers’, either from a skiff or wading. If you’re using a guide he’ll normally spot them long before you and identify their position using the numbers on a clock face – 12 o’clock is straight off the bow – and distance in feet. (Sometimes they'll also help by qualifying their call, for example 11 o'clock and moving right. Or 40' and moving away from you.) Now what you need to factor into that is that the guide, on a skiff, is probably 15’ behind you so angles are different and often their ‘distance calling’ is somewhat awry. So, if you can't see it point your rod where he’s calling and get him to direct you right or left until you see it. Don’t, no matter how, anxious he appears fire off a blind cast. In most cases you’ll just end up lining and spooking the fish.

So, if there is a fundamental lesson, communication between the guide and angler, is of paramount importance at all times, especially early calling sometimes long before you're even going to cast.

‘Tailers’ are completely different. Rather than opportunitists they’ve found, normally crabs or speculatively small depressions on the bottom – a crab’s lair - and are excavating them from the bottom. Here your cast needs to be somewhat closer than you’d aim for ‘cruisers’. How close, um…difficult to say, so much depends on conditions. Too close and they’ll spook, too far away and they won’t find it or change direction! There there’ll be an element of trial and error from time on the water.

Reel? Mine years old, but still very effective. It’s a long spooled Diawa Whisker SS 1600. Make sure you don’t have too much drag pressure on the reel, at least initially – no more than a quarter of the line’s breaking strain. The first run/runs are explosively fast! And I prefer, rather than adjusting the drag, just to use finger pressure to supplement it, enough to be able to retrieve line.

Spotting fish. Most, but not all, will work into the current. They’ll run right up onto the Flats, even what end up as drying Flats, or into the Mangroves on a making tide and then, as soon as it turns, make their way out into deeper water. This ‘retreat’ though won’t prevent then feeding. And some, if there’s deeper water around mangroves will stay put, often not moving.

Ah, and important aspect of spotting you need good sun glasses – Polaroids with amber filters and side shields probably give you the best contrast on the Flats. Although the ‘low light’ ones certainly help, especially in early morning or very cloudy conditions.

A peaked cap is also a must. And it’s worth getting one with a long peak either black or dark blue underneath. Mine also has back and ear flaps to protect against the sun. In that regard of course use liberal quantities of sun block, not forgetting the areas under the eyes to protect against reflected light. Whether you wear tee shirts and shorts is your choice. I prefer fast drying long sleeved shirts and trousers. For footwear old deck shoes are great on a skiff but, if you’re going to wade, invest in some proper wading boots with rigid rubber soles. Diving boots can prove quite uncomfortable if you step on coral fragments.

As to wading watch the guides. Whilst walking they don’t pick their feet up. The last thing you want to do is to step on a Sting Ray! If you’re ‘shuffling’ it will just spook. When you’re close to a fish though remember you’re effectively stalking it just pick your feet up very gently and minimise noise.

So eventually you’re going to cast. Cast and feather the spool so that there’s no slack line and drop the tip to the surface or even slightly below. And watch the fish. If it’s coming towards you lower your profile – I’ve even ended up lying on the deck. If it rushes towards the jig just feel for the bite. After the pick up there’s nothing too subtle – then just pull into it and get the rod up high even, in the case of those 7 footers, above your head. You’re trying to guide it around coral heads or isolated mangrove shoots.
If the fish doesn’t appear to have noticed the jig then just ‘skip’ it a couple of inches, puffing up sand or debris. You may need to repeat that and even retrieve in short stop starts. That should attract their attention. But remember don’t bring your lures towards the Bonefish. That just not behaviour they expect from their prey! And don’t retrieve too quickly. Most of their prey avoids being eaten by remaining motionless. It’s just that tell tale puff that they’re looking for.

As well as Bonefish jigs and for preference I opt for a 3/16oz one you can ‘sweeten’ it with bait – either a shrimp (BIG prawn) or Conch, or even a small Crab. Or even use the bait, without the jig, on a baitholder hook. I normally provide casting weight by clipping a Swan shot touching the eye of the hook.

Leader? All I do is to attach a short 10” length of heavier fluorocarbon, 15lbs about right, to the reel line. An Albright attached to a Bimini Twist works well.

Alright only my views but I hope that at least gives you an insight into Bonefish fishing.

Don’t forget the others species though Lucky the Permit, Snook (based on where you are), Jacks and Barracuda. You’ll need a somewhat heavier rod for those!

Best of Luck
Dave

[PanamaJack]

Using a slightly heavier set of gear and a small Crab might reward you with one of these. To my mind the hardest fighter on the Flats.

In terms of the bucktail jigs for the Bonefish I prefer the flatter, scooped ones. They're normally supplied in 4s, 2s or 2/0s. If you're fishing on a bottom with lots of turtle grass you may want to source weedless ones.

[V8_rob]

Got to get me one of those :), do you have a handy link for flats jigs, etc ?

[PanamaJack]

Go to to get me one of those :), do you have a handy link for flats jigs, etc ?

Hi Rob
There some very good recommendations for specific jigs on this link - http://ambergriscaye.com/pages/town/fishbonefish.html - from Belize. And some good information about targeting ‘tailers’ – they’re very much focussed on a small patch of bottom and it’s the ‘catch 22’ with a jig, too close and they’ll spook, too far away and they’ll never see it. They’re often bigger fish, singles or a very small group. It obviously easier targeting them with a fly, but that gentleman seems to have worked out how to get the jig close. (I suppose it contradicted 'my rule' about retrieving towards a fish. But I suspect, with all that sediment being kicked up, crabs can occasionally become disorientated. The Bone's visibility's restricted though and with the jig close it will just grab it with lightning speed.)

Here’s another site - http://www.pezraton.com/tackle.htm - with effective recommendations for the other Flats species as well as Bones.

This link - http://www.saltwaterexperience.com/florida_keys_bonefishing.htm , albeit brief, interesting describes their sense of smell which can be very effective. (Great picture, albeit close up, of what a 'tailer' should look like.) Unfortunately when spreading bait particles you can also end up attracting small Pinfish and Bonnethead Sharks! On that site there’s also a good selection of ‘technique’ articles, most about fly fishing but still worth reading through. As well as on this one - http://www.activeangler.com/articles/saltwater/.
Dave
PS I’m off to the Pacific coast of Costa Rica on Saturday for a fortnight’s trip. And there’re lots of things to get through in the interim! So apologies, I may take some time responding to further enquiries. But if others could also post interesting links on techniques to this site we could perhaps make it a sticky?

[V8_rob]

Many thanks for that, I'm going to make myself a cuppa and read my way through those links :)

[PanamaJack]

I mentioned 'tailers'. There's a great video clip of what to look out for on YouTube - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=F_aqDTRYPpg&eurl=.

[lucky]

Hi Dave – thanks for all the fantastic info. I also asked a few questions about on this subject over on the Cubamania/Fish Cuba forum and received some very helpful replies from Cubafish and Juanito who both fish Cuba regularly. They said exactly the same thing as you did as regards the 7 to 7 ½’ rod length and the ability to cast quickly and accurately. That’s something I hadn’t considered before but it makes perfect sense. As regards casting weight they suggested, much as you did, something capable of casting 3/16 oz for calm days and up to 1/4 or 3/8 oz to punch through the wind when conditions were a bit breezy. Shimano make a 7'/8' STC Beastmaster that is rated for 3-15gm so that might do the trick but I’m in no rush to get the rod as I’m probably not going until the end of next year so I’ve plenty of time to look around and build up the kit over the coming months. There doesn’t seem to be a lot available in that weight of rod in a traveling version though – maybe why you went for a custom job. Anyway you never know what will come up on ebay and I've got plenty of time to look.

As for line 6-8lb test was also recommended as Bonefish in Cuba emulate bonefish in Belize size wise, averaging 2 - 4 lbs (1 - 2 kg) so 6 - 8 lb test line (3 - 4 kg) with a minimum of 200 metres of line on the reel. I believe the reason that bigger specimens are found elsewhere in places like Florida is that the water depth in the ocean drops off much more quickly.

As for bucktail jigs yellow or white jigs seem to be the preferred colours with a size 1 hook or less. Unfortunately I‘m having trouble finding ones with hooks that small in the UK. Do you know of a good source of bucktails here? The ones I've come across so far seem to be fitted with hooks bigger than size 1. Another alternative to bucktail jigs that was mentioned was the scent impregnated soft plastic curly tail grubs that are on the market which will give more colour options if you come across picky fish. Apparently grubs in the 1 1/2"-2" range have worked well.

The guys over on Cubamania also placed a lot of importance on the reel with it being absolutely paramount that you have a reel with a smooth reliable drag as Bonefish of any size will test it to its limit. I notice your Daiwa is a front drag. Is there any special reason for that? The Cubamania lads seem to think that for flat fishing rear drag reels pick up too much dirt and sand. I’ve got a 4000 rear drag Shimano Twinpower which has a sealed drag unit so hopefully that will be OK – it does at least have the necessary line capacity. Another thing about that reel is that it does have the fighting drag control which given what you say about setting the drag low initially may be quite useful when it comes to Bonefish.

As for footwear I’ll probably go for a pair of Simms Flats Sneakers which will make a useful boot for fishing in general both here and abroad. However Orvis do make some low top flats boots which are similar in construction to diving boots but with the same protective sole found on proper flats boots but are a fair bit cheaper. Has anyone tried these? I’m also aware of the trick of wearing longer socks so you can fold the top back down over your boots to give added protection from bits of coral getting inside your boots.

Once again thanks for all your great advice. I’ll read through all those links you posted in detail when I get a chance. Maybe we can have a chat about spinning tactics for Snook and Permit when we you get back from holidays. I already have a good heavier weight spinning rod to take for other species although I don't know if you get Permit in Cuba but there's always other fishing destinations. Anyway like I said maybe we can chat about that when you return. Have a great time in Costa Rica Dave.

[tarponhead]

Bucktail jigs are great but I've caught using heavy clouser minnows that I also cast as flies on 8# and 9# fly rods. Keep hooks small - sz 6-8 max. Try little rapala's and poppers. Rods can be any length - my favourite is the sage 7ft travel rod from Sportfish but your Greys Missionary is fine. Make sure your reel line is good quality and decent drag - shimano or penn are my preferred. Off to Cuba next week. tight lines!:)


What would be a good spinning set-up for bonefish on the flats as far as casting weight of rod and appropriate lures? I know a lot of people prefer to fly fish for them but I've never done any fly fishing and would be more comfortable using spinning gear. Would bucktail jigs be any good and what hook size would be suitable? From the reading I've done it seems that a reel capable of holding 200 metres of 8-10lb line is the prefered optimun but is it better to go light on the rod and lures to minimize disturbance when the lure hits the water to avoid spooking the fish or a bit heavier to help with casting when it's windy? Also is there any prefered length of spinning rod to use? At the moment I'm thinking about the 8-9 foot range.

Any info would be greatly appreciated as I'm starting to kit up for a planned future trip. Thanks in advance.

[Sue Harris]

So much excellent advice that there is nothing really to add except perhaps to say that bones will take almost anything in deep water, even deadbaits, and certainly minnow lures.

If you're after bones or permit, I would echo the important advice to ensure that you have good communication with your guide. In fact, ask him what terms he is going to use and what he means by them before you get onto the fish. You can even have a dummy run just to get used to the instructions.

For permit, pinpoint casting in essential, they are very spooky. If you are not a fly fisherman, then you can catch them using small pieces of conch - but once again, casting accuracy is essential.

For the novice, go somewhere where they fishing is easy and unpressured. For example, here in southern Belize (not the ever busy Ambergris in the north) we have shoals of bones numbering in the hundreds that are really easy to catch. They don't get big - up to around 5lb - but they are very obliging. And permit, although neve easy, are numerous - we have seen as many as 60 tailing in a day.

Another piece of advice is to travel at the start of the season. By the end of the season, even down here where pressure is feather light, the permit in particular become more wary. Once the visitors have gone, at the end of the season - about end of April - give them a couple of weeks and they are everywhere you look again.

[bc roller]

sorry guys i had read all the other relevent posts except for the top stickey.

it sounds like everyone uses guides, what about fishing right off the beach around where you stay?

[PanamaJack]

sorry guys i had read all the other relevent posts except for the top stickey.

it sounds like everyone uses guides, what about fishing right off the beach around where you stay?

Hi Dennis
Um .. not everyone. I have to admit that for me there're are the two types of holidays - those with the wife, where fishing is verboten (normally) and out and out fishing trips with friends. And on the fishing trips I just haven't built in the time to experiment so I prefer to pay for the guide's local knowledge. Whether you wade or fish from a skiff they know the flats and the tides so you'll maximise your opportunities that way.

But I understand that for some it's just the few snatched hours, fitting in with a family hoiday. So, to answer your question, yes you can catch Bones straight off the beach.

But, they're fairly spooky creatures so early or late will be the time to spot them. Where? Well they're hunting for food - crabs, shrimp and small bait fish. So don't fish over clean sand! Look for 'scrubby' areas, areas of turtle grass or coral, mangroves or marly areas where you can see 'craters' - where crabs make their home and where Bones have been excavating for them.

Bones, on a rising tide (but don't expect the tidal range you get in BC) will happily push into really shallow water. Sometimes you'll see them 'tailing', other times there's 'nervous' water or, as well as visually spotting them, I've seen them with backs out of the water, just ankle deep.

Normally the better areas will have deeper channels around them where the fish retreat to when the tide turns. And often you can see them 'mudding', discolouring the water as they disturb sediment grubbing around for bait.

A very useful forum for the 'occasional' (holiday) angler is http://www.tripadvisor.com. There you may well find advice on specific areas near the specific hotel you're staying at.
Dave

[lucky]

In terms of the bucktail jigs for the Bonefish I prefer the flatter, scooped ones. They're normally supplied in 4s, 2s or 2/0s.
Hi Dave - do you know where I can source bucktail jigs in ¼oz, ⅜oz and ½oz weights fitted with either size 4, 2, 1 or 1/0 hooks? I've found plenty in the correct weights but they are fitted with 2/0 hooks and larger. I don't mind ordering themfrom the States if I have to. Thanks.

[PanamaJack]

Hi Dave - do you know where I can source bucktail jigs in ¼oz, ⅜oz and ½oz weights fitted with either size 4, 2, 1 or 1/0 hooks? I've found plenty in the correct weights but they are fitted with 2/0 hooks and larger. I don't mind ordering themfrom the States if I have to. Thanks.

I tend to use the Phillips Wiggle Jigs that you can get from somewhere like Captain Harry's in Miami - http://www.captharry.com/categories2/Jigs/71.html. They ship internationally.

Without sorting through one of the many boxes of tackle they're equipped, from memory, with a size 2 hook. Did try to find the Phillips web site, without success, but, in doing so, picked up this guide's comments that might be of interest - http://www.reel-time.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38539. Although that site's devoted to 'dyed in the wool' 'long rodders' it's Article section accessed from it's home page - http://www.reel-time.com - is well worth perusing.
Dave

[lucky]

Thanks Dave. They look the business. I'll delve through that site later. It looks like there's a lot of useful info on there.

[steve pitts]

Myself and Mike & Richard Ladle have caught quite a few bones on plugs when fishing classic bonefish flats.

I think that the bones in some areas have tuned in to feeding on small fish when baitfish shoal over spring tides.

Generally, it is the bigger fish of 4lb plus (up to 10.5lbs) that we catch on plugs.

Successful lures have been 9cm Maria Angel Kiss and Chase BW, Rapala J9 - J13 and I once had a bone on an Aigle magnet slider that I was cranking back across the surface for barracuda in waist-deep water.

We always use a wire trace because of the risk of 'cuda and it doesn't appear to deter the bigger bonefish from having a go at the plugs in fact the bites are decisive, with the rod slamming over as the bone heads off on it's first run.

Here are 5 different fish out of the dozens that we have now caught on plugs.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/stevepitts18/Mikeandkilgwynbonefishplusplug.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/stevepitts18/IMG_0140.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/stevepitts18/MikereturnsBuccoobone.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/stevepitts18/Tobago2007buccoobone1-1.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h313/stevepitts18/Stevesbonefish9.jpg

Cheers
Steve

[lucky]

Myself and Mike & Richard Ladle have caught quite a few bones on plugs when fishing classic bonefish flats.
Where was that Steve?

[steve pitts]

Hi Lucky

Somewhere beginning with 'T' and ending with 'O' :secret:
(NOT Toronto)

Cheers
Steve

[PanamaJack]

Myself and Mike & Richard Ladle have caught quite a few bones on plugs when fishing classic bonefish flats.

I think that the bones in some areas have tuned in to feeding on small fish when baitfish shoal over spring tides.

Generally, it is the bigger fish of 4lb plus (up to 10.5lbs) that we catch on plugs.
Cheers
Steve

An interesting post Steve. And certainly, as you've proved, an effective technique even with their underslung mouths.

A number of Bonefish flies are tied to simulate fish - normally Blennie/Gobie types or Glass Minnows - so they are active predators, not just after Shrimp and Crabs. But I can only previously recall one previous instance where one of our members caught one, a four pounder, on a Toby of all things.

I'm not so certain though that would work on some of the super shy fish of the Middle Keys in Florida. I recall John Goddard once recounting a tale of casting at fish with a 16' leader that would just instantly spook. So he staked out the skiff where fish were coming onto the flat, casted his fly and waited. A big single came onto the flat. He twitched the fly and, true to form, it spooked!
Dave

[steve pitts]

I'm not so certain though that would work on some of the super shy fish of the Middle Keys in Florida. I recall John Goddard once recounting a tale of casting at fish with a 16' leader that would just instantly spook. So he staked out the skiff where fish were coming onto the flat, casted his fly and waited. A big single came onto the flat. He twitched the fly and, true to form, it spooked!
Dave

Hi Dave

Those fish around the middle Keys are so educated that most of them have a phd in how to be scared of their own shadows.

I certainly wouldn't claim that fishing plugs for bones will work everywhere, in fact I tried out in the Seychelles for fish that have never seen a fly or plug and never got a touch off a bone, but they were mostly small fish of a couple of pounds (the emporers and little bluefin trevally loved them though).

There's no doubt though that where bigger fish are found and in close proximity to big shoals of baitfish like glass minnows, the big bones feed on the fry / baitfish with relish and a lot of aggression, so it can sort out the men from the boys if the circumstances are right.

The bigger fish that we've caught have mostly come from water that is two to three feet deep, rather than true 'skinny' water, where the fish do tend to spook easier (see the 'tide mark' on the pic of Mike).

I have to say that catching that Tobago bone on a mag slider is probably the biggest surprise I've experienced during 40 -odd years of fishing.

Cheers
Steve

[Sue Harris]

Down here in Southern Belize Chris and I have caught bonefish on DEADBAITS - yes - hooked in the mouth - when fishing for other species. In the right place, at the right time, the little devils will take anything.

If you are trying to catch something to eat for dinner, and there are bones around, the rule here is that you will never catch anything but virtually inedible small bonefish.

[DaveIrving]

I remember a few years ago when Jonas the skipper of the Gecko was fishing a drop off at the Similan Islands in Thailand in 200 metres of water, using half a skipjack tuna on a heavy cable wire trace, a stand-up all roller rod and managed to catch a 13lb Bonefish!

A couple of months later another friend of mine did exactly the same thing proving it wasn't a total fluke!

As most of you will be aware...there are "supposedly" no bonefish in Thailand, you don't catch bonefish in 200 metres of water and especially not on heavy shark tackle! ;)

....we have a lot to learn about this species!

Cheers

Dave

[scuro]

Jigs have never really produced for me. On top of that the plopping sound sometimes spooks them. I use flies and yes, plugs occasionally...they like the Yo's...all depending...and you will have to figure it out. They do not like any gulp like product....they run from it! It's a huge learning curve if you're DIYing. Don't be disappointed to catch none and possibly even see none on your first trip. Very expensive sun glasses are the key. As a fighting fish I'm more impressed by Tarpon..heck snapper is fun...bones are no super fish but rather a fish perfectly suited for fly fishermen. In my opinion this is why they rate the fish so high. This is one of only a few fish where being able to toss small weightless flies 40 ft into the wind is a real advantage over any other type of fishing.