The best European gamefishing boat/hull?

**Patudo** · 25-10-2008, 16:56

Following on from something mentioned in another thread, I'd like to ask

- Which European made hulls have impressed you the most (whether in seaworthiness/ride quality, build construction, fuel consumption, etc)

- Which European designed boats do you find best laid out for big game fishing?

Moderators please feel free to move this to another forum like the boat owning or boat fishing forum if you think more appropriate

Regards

P.

**Captain Spike** · 25-10-2008, 19:53

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for the Aquabell 33 Mediterranean sport fisher.

**STAN M** · 25-10-2008, 21:02

Could feel myself leaning towards a Striker, never fished from one, just like the look of them and like ally boats.

TomBettle · 25-10-2008, 21:46

You'll probably hate me for it, but the fishing based Rodmans have had a little thought put into them and cover blue water and general angling pretty well.
Hulls are good, have a feeling of luxury, big game layout with flybridge helm aft, but still space for a whole bunch to fish.

**Roddy Hays** · 26-10-2008, 01:20

Boats I have fished on or owned :

Aquabells - good seaboats, although wet, and low to the water for handling fish. Good engine boxes for relaxing on, but no traditional cockpit tackle stowage and interiors cramped. Flybridge helmchair too far forward.

Striker - aluminium boats which present a different set of maintenance problems for the unwary. Poor engine rooms on older models, and too heavy for the horsepower put in most European versions. Traditional gamefishing cockpit layout and lots of wood inside most of the ones I have been on. Some Strikers still around in some places that really should have been put down years ago ! Moderate sea-boats.

Mitchell - the late Ron Cowling's boat is the only Mitchell I have seen as a game-boat, and though not designed for the job Ron caught a lot of fish with it. Solidly built, good sea-keeping and a great cockpit, it lacks dedicated tackle stowage and a second engine !

Rodman - Spanish built hulls with a reputation for seaworthiness. I have been on several and know people who own them and the general consensus seems to be that they are adequate for the job but have quirks that make no sense. They also don't have great cockpits and have a moderate build quality.

Nelson - I'm sure Peter Bristow's vessel is not the only Nelson around catching marlin, but they'd be a rarity, that's for sure. Long and narrow, built for heavy weather at speed, they well-built and very "traditional" in a pilot-boat sense. Hard to turn quickly and quite cramped in places.

Lochin - great sea boats which provide a sound platform. Build quality good, but let down by some poor engine rooms and oddly designed bulwarks and cockpits. Flybridges adequate.

Cyfish - another well-built UK hull with good seaworthiness, but with a bigger volume hull than a Lochin so the engine access is better. Cockpits generally better too, though tackle stowage is a problem. High bulwarks make access to the water difficult. Interiors can be cramped. Have not seen a factory flybridge.

Boats that I have seen game-fishing or know of :

Princess - good for client comforts and they all have a turn of speed. Useless for fishing from, although plenty are used for that purpose ! Cockpits way too small !

Trader 42 - as far as I know only a couple of these have been built as game boats, and I suspect that they do the job more than adequately. Solidly built, great engine rooms and a reputation for a good interior would all seem to point to a good vessel. I nearly went to look at one of them in Scotland once - not sure where it went to ? I believe the other is in the Gulf ......

Byth - the first of the UK cats, and a very poor competitor to a South Boat. Well, the one I saw was !

Corvette - I saw a Corvette in France once with a cockpit instead of an aft cabin and it looked very interesting. The boat has a great reputation as a seaworthy hull, economical and well built, but I know nothing more.

Aquastar - several of these are used for gamefishing and I suspect that they fall into the Lochin/Cyfish mould. Very capable of doing something they were not designed to do.

Antares - seen some, but never ridden one. I understand that they are quite lightweight and have some French idiosyncrasies about them that leave a lot to be desired if you're a "real" game fisho !

Boats that I would like to see gamefishing :

Lagoon 42/3 - just look at the pictures and you could easily imagine what you could do with this big cat ! You'd need a goose-neck stanchion for the chair, but economy and range is great and creature comforts abound. It'd cost you to cut one up so you had a cockpit though........

Wildcat - Irish cat with good build quality and a proven track record of sea worthiness. A good looking boat too, easily adapted to game fishing. Interior would need some work on though.

Catapult - new UK cat that could be a possibility. I know nothing more than a write-up and some photos, but it does look very high out of the water, which could be a problem.

Kingfisher - Cornish builder better known for traditional GRP commercial hulls, but he has a 30 foot beauty which could make a fabulous game-boat. I rode the first one and was most impressed. Complete with flybridge and a decent cockpit.

South Boats - UK cat with a huge proven charter record, mammoth cockpit and their flybridge version seems made for the game. Not sure if one has made it into bluewater, but a top contender if you can afford it.

I'll try and post some pics tomorrow from my files. It'll be interesting to see what others have to say !! Given the money and told to be sensible with it, I'd ring Southern Boats and have a ride on their flybridge model to see if it ticks the boxes first.

I'll probably have a couple more to metion too, now that I think of it. For example, I always thought a Targa 23 with outboards on a pod (instead of the stern-drive) would make a fine little stand-up game boat. Mind you, th3 25 with a standard engine would work just as well, complete with small flybridge with aft helm !

TomBettle · 26-10-2008, 09:54

The Targa is nicely built, but very expensive and very tippy at sea. Goes great in a straight line, but slips and slides when in tight spaces.
Agree about the Antares and the Corvette is beautifully built, but with some issues over warranty and aftersales (...so and owner told me).
The Wildcat looks superb, but I'd like to try one in a big following sea at displacement speeds. The reason being (admittedly slightly different hull shape), Troms Explorer was a Rod Baker, Powerglide 40. She ran fantasticaly into a head sea and beam sea, but with a following sea she was very VERY hard work. Full lock corrections and ages for them to take effect.
The Powerglide was incredibly cheap to run. 21 knots cruise at 3 litres per mile, regardless of sea conditions.

Tony Allen (I think), has one on order from Rod Baker for his operation in Florida. The boat, looks great to my untrained eye. Last time I saw it, it was a long way from completion. The big issue with Rod's design (which I think the Wildcat avoids) is hardly any buoyancy at the bow. She doesn't nose dive, but seas that are bigger than her freeboard do thump there way over the screen and leave you winded when they hit the under sides of the hull. It never slams coming off a wave, but sort of thumps you upwards when you hit one... Odd. If it wasn't for the issue of following seas, I'd be getting one off Rod as they are tremendous value. The other downside to him is you would never want him to trim the boat inside. Talk about rough and ready!

Tom

**Roddy Hays** · 26-10-2008, 12:12

I haven;t spoken to Tony for a couple of months, but I know he was disappointed by the punctuality of his delivery. At one stage he was also thinking of taking the boat across the pond on its own bum, not sure what came of that.

That's an interesting point you bring up regarding stern seas and cats. There are good and there are bad, same as with mono hulls. I know Roger Bayzand couldn't praise his South Boat enough, and from my conversations with Frank at Safehaven some time ago I didn't think that stern seas were a major problem for the Wildcat. He's posted some new video recently (he's always had good video) here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6LnKT67Fko

Needless to say, it reminded me that his mono hull, the Interoceptor, could also be a very viable platform for game-fishing too. I haven;t spoken to him for about four years but it looks as though he is going from strength to strength with his boats.

I've never ridden a Targa, only padded around a couple, so your insight there is interesting. Is that the 23 you're talking about, or the very popular 31 ? If it's the latter then I'd agree with you as she even looks tippy in the flesh. I always thought the 23 looked far more stable than the others.
If you're unconcerned about looks (ie: a Merritt catches fish just as well as a Lochin, for example) then there's a whole slew of other European boats that could well be possibilities for the "list". Sea Ranger springs to mind if you had the money, as does Nimbus and Hardy. Any production boat, if you had the money, can be customised to suit.

TomBettle · 26-10-2008, 12:47

Originally Posted by Roddy Hays

I haven;t spoken to Tony for a couple of months, but I know he was disappointed by the punctuality of his delivery. At one stage he was also thinking of taking the boat across the pond on its own bum, not sure what came of that.

That's an interesting point you bring up regarding stern seas and cats. There are good and there are bad, same as with mono hulls. I know Roger Bayzand couldn't praise his South Boat enough, and from my conversations with Frank at Safehaven some time ago I didn't think that stern seas were a major problem for the Wildcat. He's posted some new video recently (he's always had good video) here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6LnKT67Fko

Needless to say, it reminded me that his mono hull, the Interoceptor, could also be a very viable platform for game-fishing too. I haven;t spoken to him for about four years but it looks as though he is going from strength to strength with his boats.

I've never ridden a Targa, only padded around a couple, so your insight there is interesting. Is that the 23 you're talking about, or the very popular 31 ? If it's the latter then I'd agree with you as she even looks tippy in the flesh. I always thought the 23 looked far more stable than the others.
If you're unconcerned about looks (ie: a Merritt catches fish just as well as a Lochin, for example) then there's a whole slew of other European boats that could well be possibilities for the "list". Sea Ranger springs to mind if you had the money, as does Nimbus and Hardy. Any production boat, if you had the money, can be customised to suit.

I was chatting (emails) with Tony about project managing his boat for him after Troms Explorer. We jumped the queue over Tony's simply because I was there giving Rod and ear bashing fairly often. Tony's boat sat for over a year in exactly the same spot with the engines in their crates alongside, all gathering dust.
Rod would tell me how great his boat was and no problem with this and none with that. The reality was he didn't actually go on them himself. Taking her to Norway gave me a fairly good insight into her good bits and bad bits. She was one hell of a boat, but weight distribution (fore and aft) was absolutely imperitive. Get it right and she would go through any sea (we had Force 9's and 30feet on the pt 1/4 rounding the Western Cape). BUT you could never use an autopilot in a following sea, it would never keep up. Actually the cheap skates never fitted an autopilot at all.
Finally, Rods estimations of performance and economy are pie in the sky. She is very good, 24.5 kts tops from 2 x Iveco 285's and cruise of 21kts through almost any sea for just 3 litres per mile, but he was quoting over 30 tops and 600 miles from the tanks (we were getting 450 if we were to drain them).

I first came across Frank when he supplied his first Interceptor 38 to Chris Caines. It was early days for that boat and it needed some work (broached like a broachy thing), but it seems he has got all that sussed. The Wildcat looks phenomenal. I really want to have a play in one and if it didn't suffer as Rods does in a following sea then I'd fall for it 100%. I know the Wildcat uses about 50% more juice for the same sort of speed, but it looks one hell of a tool!

The Targa's are built like brick outhouses. Hell of a boat in that sense and very VERY fast. But they are also extremely odd. You love them or hate them. The wood work inside is all very rugged and solid and the cushions are basic fabric with little lounging around support. The accomodation is fucntional and extremely unusual in layout, but they sell and they sell for big bucks by the UK standards. The range currently goes from 25 to 42 with , I believe a 46 coming shortly.
All are on outdrives which gives them the slightly tippy feeling and as they have nothing really gripping the water you get the slippyness when working in tight spaces. Get to know it and you may love it, but I wouldn't want one for any purpose other than harbourmaster or police duties. For these purposes they are perfect.

Obviously I know about most of the other boats, but have limited experience of using them, possibly with the exception of a Princess. We've fitted rod holders for a guy who liked to catch mackerel before, but using one in earnest for fishing! NOoooooooo!

Tom

TomBettle · 26-10-2008, 18:09

Originally Posted by Aram

Tom, are you able to sell me one of those? If so, how much (and I expect a friends price).

Aram (www.gonefishing.tv)

Unfortunately not Aram, Frank deals direct from his base in Ireland only.

His boats are gaining one heck of a reputation for their ability, but for essentially, a charter boat, they are very expensive. Finish inside is very nice, but nothing like you would expect from a poduction line boat (compromise?). The estimated pice given at te start of the build is likely to escalate somewhat. I seem to remember hearing that a 40 (with it's nice, but basic interior) Wildcat ended up costing the best part of £400K recently?

**Patudo** · 26-10-2008, 18:40

Humm...

The great majority of my experience has been working the deck. Most of my boating time has also been in fairly calm seas where most any boat does well. Only a relative handful of times have I experienced what I'd call challenging conditions (trying to make speed in rough conditions). So I welcome comments from those folks who have spent more hours driving these things around. I reckon seaworthiness and handling/manoeuverability are the most important, since with good input it is then pretty easy to get the cockpit and flybridge layout configured right for gamefishing.

Just a few general thoughts re seaworthiness: I find most European monohulls are too fat (shallow vee) up front. The intention is to create more interior space up front but this makes them really pound when trying to make speed in rough seas, Jeanneaus are especially bad in this respect, followed by Beneteau, Starfisher and Rodman of the boats I've been on. I will say the Rodman 1250 appears to be a decent sea boat, but a vessel of that size and weight is a different animal altogether to boats in the 30 to 36 foot class. Some of the British hulls with a work boat heritage I think are probably better sea boats than the European pleasure/cruiser hulls and the build construction of something like a Lochin is certainly better than a Beneteau or Jenneau. Although it must obviously be said that they are priced in a different sort of bracket. The Nelson 40/42 is a really good performer in rough seas probably because of its narrowness.

Admittedly not all locations demand a really good sea boat. But I can think of plenty of places where a boat that can make a decent cruise speed in rough seas will sell better than one that has to pull back.

Manoeuverability tends to be the other main criterion by which a game fishing vessel is judged, and I would love for someone to be able to tell me the good and bad of all these hulls handle on a fish. But I get the impression, from having seen quite a few in action, that most vessels can be driven effectively on a fish with skilled (indeed even common sense will do most times) handling, even single screws. The biggest impediment in fighting a fish, from what I've seen is the massive swim platform tacked on to the back of almost every European vessel, the Spanish/Continental ones being particularly bad. But this is relatively easy to get rid of at the design/options stage.

One thing that is impossible to alter is the height your cockpit is above the water, and a lot of European vessels are high enough to have to take it into consideration at the end game. Fortunately in most cases it can be worked around with longer gaffs and snooters but things like the Cyfish 33 are higher off the water than a gamefishing vessel probably should be. This is where I look at a lot of catamarans and think how difficult it would be to manage a fish, especially all those manic little fish in Cape Verde, from such a high cockpit.

Smaller sportfishing vessels ie below around 30 foot are a bit of a different ball game and probably deserve another thread in themselves. I'm thinking more of what most folks understand as a game fishing boat ie. a flybridge boat in the 30 to 40+ foot range.

Regards

P.