A solution for the Irish bluefin...

**Kingfish81** · 18-09-2006, 17:42

I have read on various websites and also through various articles in the SCBI magazine about the difficulties of getting a bait to the bluefin off Ireland. This to me sounds like a very interesting fishing challenge and I've thought about it quite a bit. I thought I'd put up a post to see whether anyone on WSF had any ideas!!

The problem according to those in the know (and Dave correct me if I'm wrong here!) is that you can't troll near to them as they're boat shy, kites often don't work because the boat is down-wind of the fish, it's to windy etc or the fish are moving too fast.

At various states of consciousness whilst in bed I've wondered about using a remote control helicopter (but then how do you land it on a boat in pitching seas without losing an ear or worse!); trolling using braid with 200m of braid line out (but you still have to get around the fish and bring the baits past them); putting live-baits out under balloons in the expected path of the tuna and moving the boat away (but very hit and miss - what happens if the tuna change course).

I also thought about winding 200-300ft of line from the 130 class game reel onto a large fixed-spool, which is on a beachcaster style rod rod where the rings are not completely closed (i.e. as the ring comes back in a circle towards the rod, rather than being an O shape, it goes over the top, forming perhaps 400degrees of a spiral. The bait is then attached via a swivel and short trace to the end of this line. This is then cast out until all the line has left the fixed spool, the line is simply slipped out of the rings and voila, the bait is 200ft away from the boat (at any angle you like) and connected to the 130... It works in my head, but I'm not sure whether it would in practice!!!

Anyone else got any ideas?!?!?!??

**sharpshooter** · 19-09-2006, 02:08

Originally Posted by Kingfish81

I have read on various websites and also through various articles in the SCBI magazine about the difficulties of getting a bait to the bluefin off Ireland. This to me sounds like a very interesting fishing challenge and I've thought about it quite a bit. I thought I'd put up a post to see whether anyone on WSF had any ideas!!

The problem according to those in the know (and Dave correct me if I'm wrong here!) is that you can't troll near to them as they're boat shy, kites often don't work because the boat is down-wind of the fish, it's to windy etc or the fish are moving too fast.

At various states of consciousness whilst in bed I've wondered about using a remote control helicopter (but then how do you land it on a boat in pitching seas without losing an ear or worse!); trolling using braid with 200m of braid line out (but you still have to get around the fish and bring the baits past them); putting live-baits out under balloons in the expected path of the tuna and moving the boat away (but very hit and miss - what happens if the tuna change course).

I also thought about winding 200-300ft of line from the 130 class game reel onto a large fixed-spool, which is on a beachcaster style rod rod where the rings are not completely closed (i.e. as the ring comes back in a circle towards the rod, rather than being an O shape, it goes over the top, forming perhaps 400degrees of a spiral. The bait is then attached via a swivel and short trace to the end of this line. This is then cast out until all the line has left the fixed spool, the line is simply slipped out of the rings and voila, the bait is 200ft away from the boat (at any angle you like) and connected to the 130... It works in my head, but I'm not sure whether it would in practice!!!

Anyone else got any ideas?!?!?!??

If it is the sound of the engine that scares the fish, try trolling lures behing a yaght LOL!

There are many books on fishing for bluefin, many very dated but still good sources of info.
IMHO you should keep it simple.
I would rig my boat with two outriggers and two downriggers. Five lines. One on each 'rigger' and the last is a surface lure fished over the stern. Cover all the water.
I recon putting the time in is what counts, as well as being in the right place at the right time of course!!

SS

**Kingfish81** · 19-09-2006, 10:48

I think it's more a problem that they simply can't get near the fish. They'll see lots of tuna busting up baitfish, however as soon as they get near enough, the fish bolt for the horizon or go deep. Certainly standard tuna tactics don't seem to work that well on these guys!

**PanamaJack** · 19-09-2006, 10:48

Hi Kingfish81
Bluefins can be a particularly frustrating species to fish for. On occasions, especially when they pop up as singletons, they can be incredibly wary and appear always to be gifted with exceptional eyesight.

A lot of what you’ll read will suggest ensuring that, wherever possible, you try to keep the leader out of the water. That’s certainly the way they fish with deadbaits for the fast migrating shoals off the Bahamas. Alternatively, especially when chunking, to use light fluocarbon leaders and small (triple strength) hooks. And even buoy hook baits with polystyrene to neutralise the effect of the hook so that it sinks at the same rate as the chunks.

Is this apparent wariness though always borne out by reality?

It certainly can be. I’ve only every seen Bluefin on two occasions, the first time in the Azores. There we were Marlin fishing with lures in flat calm conditions some 46 miles offshore – out from Horta on Faial – on the Princess Alice Bank, around a 19 fathom pinnacle. As we passed round it up popped a fish in the 700lb range and it literally just tracked the lure – perhaps 20’ outside the short left – for a 100 yards before it lost interest and sunk down. In making a second pass this time two fish surfaced and, almost immediately, one ‘lit up’ and make a fast pass at the lure missing it by all of 2’. Was it deliberate? Probably. I think the lure was something that fascinated it and it was purely trying to provoke a reaction. And it was purely ‘goaded’ into action by the presence of the other fish – competition.

The second time was off Ascension Island (South Atlantic) when we were again trolling for Marlin and big Yellowfin in slightly lumpier condition. Both us and another boat had abortive strikes from presumably the same shoal of what one of the crew, who saw the fish, was convinced were Bluefin. Neither hooked up but both broke the double rubber bands (25lbs B/S) on the end of the stinger lines. Did they similarly both realise at the last moment that something was not quite right? I really don’t know.

But then on other occasions some of our members fishing from the Azores have had no problems at all in getting hook-ups from 900lb plus fish on softhead lures trolled in ‘conventional’ style.

And, just a general point, boats or certainly propeller turbulence does seem to attract rather than deter all Tuna species. Presumably they give off similar stimuli to bait shoals.

It will be interesting though to get Roger’s view (aka the ‘Ravelling Tangler’) of this Irish phenomena.

As a starting point though let me sift through and find his article. I copy it on a separate post.
Dave

**PanamaJack** · 19-09-2006, 11:01

This is the ‘bit’ from our Club – SCBI - magazine that Kingfish81 is referring to crafted by the forum’s very own, the one and only ‘Ravelling Tangler’.

For Roger Bradbury and Denis Froud their quest for an Irish Bluefin could perhaps be likened to a similar quest, veiled in the ‘mists of time’ – that for the Holy Grail! Although I have to say their September 2005 trip was an improvement on 2004’s, albeit slight. In 2004 the weather was absolutely appalling! And graphically illustrated by the cryptic title Denis dreamt up for that year’s report - ‘Wrecked on the Mahogany Bar’.

Any rate here’s the report on 2005 crafted in Roger’s rather unique writing style!

Just got back from a week in Ireland watching Giant Bluefin (GBFT). (We were accompanied by Bristol angler Pete ‘Chuckles’ Welch who wanted to see some GBFT and was both impressed and surprised to do so. However he is too sensible to try fishing for them…probably. (Furthermore he failed to fulfil the - admittedly low-paid - contract with Roger’s work-colleagues to arrange an accident that had Roger disappearing over the side.)

I won't attempt a routine report - just some observations and ask for any ideas. Although you will have to ‘go some’ to beat Red Hat Plankton’s (someone who posts to the MarlinNut forum) suggestion of last year - 'You need a whole damn boat made of fluorocarbon'!

We were out about 4 ¾ days and, on a couple of those, there was too much white water to be able to spot busting fish clearly. The Gannets seemed to have that problem, too!

What was unusual?

There were GBFT of 200lb to 800lbs there. Usually one year class predominates - say 350-450lbs or 600-750lbs.

The Sauries they were chasing sometimes jumped in an elegant, non-panicky way, almost like the way porpoises jump to breath when traveling somewhere.

The Bluefin stayed - or, at least, only showed on the surface or a sounder - over one particular piece of structure, the Inish Tra hull reef. That’s even when bait seemed scarce there, and baby Mackerel were present in vast quantities just 10 miles away, at the Lime Burner buoy.

But it was also shades of the same old issue - they were boat-shy. The only time they passed near a boat was when in hot-pursuit and if you approached them (however gently) they'd move away or go down. Also they weren't busting frequently enough to be able to position a drifting (engine off) boat near where they could start biting.

They didn't want to know about anything we offered them, though there is a possibility one took a brief look at a 17" squid spreader bar. And a possibility they were eating the baby Mackerel we tried feeding one day, without paying any attention to our Mackerel livebait, and we couldn't bring them closer to the boat despite varying the feed rate.

They were in small pods of (generally) 5 to 20 fish, which may have been of mixed sizes, though you'd expect all fish in a pod to be the same size.

We tried to catch some Sauries on Sabikis (small ‘Stateside feather rigs), but no takes. In fact it was rarer to see any bait marks than the jumping Sauries in that area, any bait balls were (I think) very small.

We tried a Yummee behind a Boone bird. (Don't ask me why they thought that a good idea, but it was off a way-back center-rigger.) I don't think anything looked at it!

We also wrecked a kite we were trying to use to run a Yummee, Tuff-Hoo or similar. Got the harness adjustment wrong and rolled it into the water. Then ‘someone’ - it wasn't me, honest - insisted we bring the kite to the boat, rather than the other way round. Whoops!

Hey, I have a suggestion. Why not invent the 200 foot long outrigger - with, of course, counterbalance on the other side of the boat - so you can pass a bait over them, independent of the wind direction and well-clear of the boat? That’s, of course, without taking the time to do an ‘Immelman turn’ around them - at slow speed - so as not to spook them. They finish eating, move away or go down while you are doing that! Is that the way of presenting a ‘way-back’ lure to them?

Sorry, in case it’s unclear, numbers of fish caught? None, Nada!

POSTSCRIPT: There were very few GBFT hooked in 2005 (and none, I think, brought to a boat). Irish skippers were tearing their hair out by late August! But what really added insult to injury was the way ‘every man and his dog’ in Ireland became experts on what would tempt them and, by sometime in September, were all freely offering their advice to the skippers.
It did cross Roger’s ‘evil little mind’ to send Adrian Molloy a harpoon for a Christmas present. And then try to persuade Denis to volunteer something like “I know what we should have tried, Adrian…..what you should have been doing was …….you’d have been bound to get them then” and see which Adrian harpooned first – a GBFT or Mr. Froud!

**PanamaJack** · 19-09-2006, 11:20

Looking at this web site - http://www.tunacharters.ie/tuna_news_2006.htm - although there were unconfirmed sightings during late August the first confirmed ones were off Downings on 31st August.

However the only hook-up I’ve seen noted yet was on this site - http://www.bluefin-tuna-charters.com/fishreport.php.

Tuna Strike 17 th Sept.
The first strike of the season! We took a big hit yesterday from a large fish result; a busted line and a large Bluefin towing a daisy chain around the bay. Fish have been sighted on a number of occasions by other boats. The big guys are back , watch this space.

They seem to be using squid ‘daisy chains’ to attract the fish, whereas in past years ‘spreader bars’ appear to have been more successful.
Dave

**Ravelling Tangler** · 19-09-2006, 13:47

I'm amused to see my SCBI article reproduced here and still, at the moment, think an extreeeeemly long outrigger could be the best bet if you could safely use one.

I did think of using a "bait boat" (as run by carp anglers) as a side-rigger but it would probably be impractical except in fairly calm weather. Same for a stunt-kite (by the way there'sa NZ site for fishing kite for flying off the beach that claims some of their models can be flown as much as 60 degrees off downwind !) because of gusting wind.

Adrian Molloy mentioned above has had more success (pulling 17" shell squid) than, I think, all other Irish skippers combined - it is possible that sometimes the Giant Bluefin mistakle the light splashes (at only about 1.5 to 2 knots) of them as smaller fish, and once in a while they will just grab anything. He spent several years before the first one was caught on rod & line trying all sorts of lures, rigs and methods and was (I guess) very frustrated when Alan Glanville got the first (with a 'standard' spreader bar) after he had been trying so many different things.

It is worth noting that he has had visits from several very experienced Tuna anglers and even the world-famous Charles Perry and they've all found that the methods they thought would work for these GBFT have just not produced. That include flying over Ballyhoo and using them various ways.

Sailing at the speeds we have so far found effective for trolling would not work because of the limits on how/where you sail w.r.t. the wind, but MAYBE if you had a nice sailing catamaran and found that (without those engine rev changes upsetting the fish) you could vary speeds as approaching them it might work ?

One of the ineresting things last year was that when they were in "hot pursuit" of a small bunch of sauries they seldom broke off from the chase when passing near the boat, yet they'd not start a chase of bait (or lures) near or behind the boat.

Maybe we just need some "herring drifters" out there ? LOL !

by the way I was on the boat in Ascension that had a couple of "Tuna" strikes on the distant 'shotgun' lure - it well nigh frightened the life out of some of us because it was so "explosive". We didn't get clear look at what it was but knew it was big and nobody saw a sign of a bill at any point. The style was definitely big Tuna and it was b...i...g !
Experinced anglers and mates practically got the shakes for a minute or two.
That was when I learned why the Americans like to talk about "as though a Volkswagen had been dropped from the sky" as a similie for the strike (though why it's always a VW, I don't know - maybe the splash from a "hummer" would be just too big to be believed ?)

**Kingfish81** · 19-09-2006, 14:52

Dave,

Many thanks for posting that up here - I was hoping you might do so! And thanks Roger for a bit more info regarding the problem. Roger, would freshwater fishing poles work as very long outriggers?! If a pole of 16m can be held all day by an angler, yet is strong enough to resist the pulls from a 20lb carp, would it be strong enough to use as an outrigger?!

Although it could be an expensive experiment!!!

As a side-rigger, what about one of the remote-controlled kontikis the kiwis sometimes use instead of kites?! If they can get out into surf, they should be able to handle a rolling Irish swell I would have thought!! This is an example of what I mean:
http://www.seahorse.net.nz/

Or an absolute c**pload of livebaits with which to draw in some tuna and keep them around before pitching a livebait to them? Similar I guess to baiting up swims for barbel and chub fishing!

I find the problems in fishing fascinating!!

**Ravelling Tangler** · 19-09-2006, 16:17

Toby,

wow that seahorse gadget does look interesting - next generation on from the old "flap" style sleds the Kiwis used-to use to pull longlines out into surf.

Might be the thing to tow a "rubby dubby" bag around when I'm blue shark drifting !

I doubt a pole would be strong enough (because of the snatch loading you get when wave conditions cause a spreader-bar to "dig in") after all they aren't usually used with anything much heavier than 20 elastic ....maybe 4 or 5 lbs pull.

Tell me if I am wrong and long "commercial Carp" poles are now being used with the heaviest (20 lb) Power Gum !

If you find this problem that fascinating, I could (perhaps) be persuaded to sponsor you for a few days on a trip to Adrian (I'm hoping here he might let me have a 'special deal' if you're not the main angler) and if Denis Froud is going over this Autumn, you may be able to join him to share part of the travel/hotel costs.

That's my way of admitting "I know when I'm (temporarily) beaten"

**Kingfish81** · 19-09-2006, 17:16

Roger, that is incredibly generous! I have been thinking about getting across to Ireland for a while and only heard about yours and Denis' trips in the recent SCBI magazine. I originally heard of the problems through Roddy Hays (I think) on another forum and it struck me as a real fishing conundrum! I would question my capabilities however in a situation where you and Denis have been temporarily beaten! My experience pales into total insignificance compared to that of yours and Denis's combined!!

Those kiwi kontikis are something else! As you can see from the link, they can pull a really pretty huge length of line out into the surf, so a rubby dubby bag shouldn't be a problem! They are relatively slow though, so I'm not sure whether they would be quick enough to intercept tuna? However they might be good for getting a livebait out to a shoal busting up bait fish from a boat sitting a few hundred metres away? From the figures given on the website, that bigger model would go 500m in about 5 minutes... Certainly 46lb of thrust is a fair old whack - from memory the electric outboards you can get for freshwater craft only go up to about 50lb of thrust! Your article mentions that you struggled to get any saurie livebaits - has Adrian tried to strike up an agreement with any friendly commercial skippers and see if they'll trawl a few that could then be stored in a large livebait tank on shore?

I know exactly what you mean about the strength of the outriggers. I would have thought that snatch loading would cause one of them to break. I assume you mean when the pole itself hits the water surface and digs in? If this is the case, could you not rig the poles at a steeper angle, thus meaning that the boat would have to be almost turning turtle before the spreader hit the water?