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Connecting leader

Discussion in 'Saltwater Fly Fishing' started by sawnee, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. sawnee

    sawnee Member

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    What's the best way to connect a leader to fly line?
    Braided loop, welded loop, whipped loop, nail knot ??
     
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  3. SALTWATERFLY

    SALTWATERFLY Guest

    Shaun

    1. Braided Loop = Simple but not 100 secure
    2. Welded loop = if present at the end of the fly line, just a simple loop on the leader to connect, but can be bulky
    3. Whipped loop, great but you need some practice, unless you are used to whipping rod rings
    4. Nail knot, the most secure, least bulky but practice before you attempt in real time. A nail knot tool (about a fiver) makes the job easiest

    If I dont have a welded loop, then I'd go for the nail knot every time

    ATB

    K
     
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  4. liphook

    liphook Member

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    Depends. Nail knot is ace but you have to be sure of what the fly line core is - no good on mono cores. Don't like the braided loops as standard but the moser minicon is good for appropriate lines but ditch the silicon tubing in favour of two or three small 5lb mono whippings. Improved nail knot is my absolute favourite where appropriate. Short oversize tapered leader and add your tippet/leader to it, will last well. Add a small dab of Aquasure over the top of what ever you decide
     
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  5. sawnee

    sawnee Member

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    Thanks guys, nail knot it is then
    I'll check the fly line core first and report back;)
     
  6. GlynB

    GlynB Member

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    I only use a braided loop 30lb salmon loops Rio and such like, lightly super glued 1st in place then whipped with tying thread light dab of water proof superglue then varnished.

    This is the way a lot of us salmon fishermen do it and they will hold anything, sorry K I disagree with you them not being 100% secure I have never had one break they have held a 16lb plus salmon thrashing about in a fast flooded river and numerous others.

    They cannot pull secured this way..but with just the tubing you takes your chance.:) But depending on your casting style they can hinge a bit K you will probably agree with that bit .

    I over cast one day on the Usk after salmon into a tree I had to pull to free it, I thought the spey 10# fly line was going to snap the 18lb mono leader did the loop stayed secure. The nail / needle knots are just fine too.
    cheers
    Glyn
    Sorry K did you mean braided loops just with the tubing fixing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
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  7. sawnee

    sawnee Member

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    My fly line has the braid core
    I'll practice the nail not before trying on the fly line to get the hang of it first.
    Does the knot not "dig in" to the fly line coating and damage it?

    I'm putting on a 9wt line, (for bass)
    I've got some 35lb and 60lb would either of these be of use for a short leader ?
     
  8. SALTWATERFLY

    SALTWATERFLY Guest

    Hi Shaun

    The butt section does dig in to the outer core, thats what gives it strength, it wont damage the line.

    60lb is too thick and heavy, I use a three step leader most of the time, constructed as 5' of 30lb, 3' 20lb and 2' of 16lb tippet.

    With 35lb, I'd add a 2nd section of 25lb, but that is a little heavy IMHO

    I fish with a number of other fluff chuckers fairly regularly (not all at once). None of us use identical setups and all reckon that theirs is the best (for them). Its a matter for experimentation until you find one that meets your style, requirements and the demands of the fish.

    Leader setups are probably the cause of the greatest dissention amongst us.

    Personally, I must have gone through at least a couple dozen setups, before I settled on one, even then these change slightly depending on conditions, line type and profile.

    It's a minefield and you've yet to ask a question on line weights and tapers, now that is complex and very opinionated!

    ATB

    K
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2016
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  9. sawnee

    sawnee Member

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    Thank you all for your help ;)

    Maybe I'll forget the line weight and taper question until next week then :p:p:p
     
  10. SALTWATERFLY

    SALTWATERFLY Guest

    Yes mate, have had several with tubing fail (easy in field repair), wouldn't use them as standard. I do occasionally use the braid loops fashioned exactly as you describe. Agree also on the hinge-ing

    ATB

    K
     
  11. FlyguyUK

    FlyguyUK Member

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    I agree that shop-bought braided loops are crap. But I've caught Tarpon over 60lb on homemade double walled braided loops. I've used nothing else for 10+ years and haven't had 1 failure. But you need to make them properly and don't use super glues or any thing that dries stiff or tubes. 35lb Gudebond braided mono double walled loop, nail knotted 12lb mono (don't use fluoro) to secure and sealed with Pliobond (reduces when dries and is flexible).
    But I am anal when comes to rigging.
     
  12. GlynB

    GlynB Member

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    Ah Right cool, when I fish the fly my lines are always set up with whipped braided loops, but I always carry a selection of needles in my fly boxes should one ever fail..such as hinging-in-:D I'm not sure either... and carry a small spool of 40-0.45mm nylon mono to re-attach a leader set up to the main fly line tip.

    All this talk has convinced me to have a trip with the fly rod again as I haven't for some time on the bass, a few weeks back I made some patterns which worked for me in the past so I'm off on the hunt early this Saturday morning.

    Hi Flyguy I use gel superglue then over whipped and varnished and have never had an issue with it and use Rio braids from a shop but I wouldnt consider them crap also some french sounding ones also Vision 30 and 40lb salmon braided loops always been fine.
    cheers
    Glyn
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2016
  13. terminalmonkey

    terminalmonkey

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    I think you're confusing the nail knot and needle knot. Needle knot needs the braid core so the needle and tippet can pass up through the centre. Nail knot doesn't run through the line so works with mono or braid core.
     
  14. SeaCoarseGame

    SeaCoarseGame Member

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    If you look on YouTube you'll find a number of vids showing how to make your own welded loops. Get some clear shrink tube from Maplins and have a go. It's not too difficult and removes the need for braided loop connectors, nail knots etc.

    I practised on some old fly lines and once 'welded' they stayed welded. The fly line broke before the weld gave way in a break test.

    SCG
     
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  15. liphook

    liphook Member

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    Not so terminalmonkey. A nail knot can strip the coating right off a mono cored line when under pressure. I know from experience. The needle knot is also referred to as the improved nail knot (Lefty Kreh). Not splitting hairs just getting the correct advise out to the OP.
     
  16. terminalmonkey

    terminalmonkey

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    Fair enough- different to what I've read on trout forums, but if you've been there and lost your leader on a mono core you've learnt the hard way so I'll bow to your experience.
     
  17. MakesNoSense

    MakesNoSense

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    The needle knot is not the improved nail knot that's just complete rubbish. I would never use any of the braided loops for saltwater work. I use an 8 turn nail knot, 40lb Ande on 8/9 lines and 50lb on 10 and 12. If your bothered about the coating stripping off your line, which I have never had, or a guide of over 50 years, then turn the line back as in an Albright or put an overhand knot in.
     
  18. Thrasher

    Thrasher Member

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    A whipped braided loop for me and if you push the fly line down to the loop it removes the hinging issues. had salmon to near 20lb and rainbows to 14lb never had one fail.
     
  19. MakesNoSense

    MakesNoSense

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    Well if you only fish for bait............just pulling your leg. There are huge offshore fish caught using manufactured/homemade loops. I'm just stuck in my ways and use what has never let me down chasing big fish.
     
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