Latest on Irish Sea MCZ - threatening your right to fish

Discussion in 'North West and the Isle of Man Catch Reports & Adv' started by Adverse camber, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. Adverse camber

    Adverse camber Member

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    I know this has been discussed already, but I suggest anyone who hasn't already done so takes a look here:

    http://www.irishseaconservation.org.uk/news/122

    Although they state that 'Marine Conservation Zones aim to conserve areas of the sea protecting rare, threatened and representative marine habitats and species, whilst minimising socio-economic costs to sea users' there would seem to be at the very least a strong possibility of a ban on fishing in affected areas, plus bait gathering of course.

    There's a link to comment forms so that you can make your feelings known ahead of the Project making it's final recommendations in August, which I will be doing. Although there's a public consultation next year it's hard to believe there will still be much to play for by then.

    Hope you can spare the time to use your voice, there's nothing to lose and everything to gain (or protect).

    Cheers

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  2. oldchukka

    oldchukka Member

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    thanks mate. i think there's a lot of people unaware of what they might have planned for us.:sneaky2:
  3. Adverse camber

    Adverse camber Member

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    I've made contact with the local 'liaison officer' for our area, and will try and find out more info which I'll share
  4. stevieg

    stevieg Member

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    I take it that there has not been a lot of interaction with the angling rep on the stakeholder group and local anglers?
  5. oldchukka

    oldchukka Member

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    your guess is prbably right stevie.
  6. stevieg

    stevieg Member

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    I fink you should be asking why mate!!!

    http://www.irishseaconservation.org.uk/node/74
  7. maxie

    maxie Member

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    Heres the reply i got off steve manning about the dubmill zone.
    Stephen

    the Allonby Bay proposed zone is attached to the Solway MCA and extends South. It is to protect Honeycomb reefs so provided you don’t damage them there is no reason to think your activities will be affected by the new proposals.

    In the meantime please send in a feedback form for the 3rd progress report and email back to me, your comments will then be on the wall at the next workshop in May. Also tomorrow there is a focus group meeting to look specifically at the impact of human activity at this site, and the angling representative chosen at random is Steve Waldron of Winscale Boat Club. I am also arranging with Dave Underwood to set up another meeting with all the members of NWSAL and hopefully this will be in Workington within the next 2 weeks. Please let me know if you have any other concerns.
  8. oldchukka

    oldchukka Member

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    MAXI. you did well mate. after my first phone call to mr manning on the proposals, i have emailed him and other defra officials on issues without replies. i'm still not happy with what may or may not happen. and the issue of restrictions on bait digging is a worry.
  9. wormgutz

    wormgutz Member

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    if you are out pumping be real careful what you lube your pump with as if using washing up liquid you are polluting the beach may even apply to oils as well the fisheries and conservation people are now aware of this and i know that this is the angle they will come at us with also they will approach you on quads at least three of them at once please be aware ......
  10. Tommy Legs

    Tommy Legs Member

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    Well I've had nothing much better to do while I'm stuck on here and I've looked through the 3rd report and other various minutes from meetings, guidlines etc etc...it's endless.
    I've only really looked at the Dubmill zone pMCZ 10 . I can tell you it's all hogwash what they've done so far.
    I've already sent my view in. There's plenty of flaws and fundemental errors to be found, the further you look into it the worse it is. No local knowledge input, dated information from generic documents, the list goes on.

    They say these activities are taking place within pMCZ10
    Charter Boats, Diving, Comercial fishing. It dries out at low water for gods sake! Proposed Oyster Farm... Its already there!

    This part is very worrying

    Basically by this statement regarding pmcz10 the group have already decided there'll be no fishing within the zone.

    The RSG agreed that a site width of 2 km would be appropriate to protect these features and may also allow existing fishing and recreational activities to continue adjacent to the site.

    I believe they're looking to make it a reference area and if so you won't be able to do anything there...Fact.
    (I can show you the documents that state this) There's a table/matrix that is used to asses a features vunerability to pressures...All activities are given a rating against the type of feature in question.
    Once an area is made a reference area all those pressures are to be addressed.

    They may be saying one thing but the intentions are definately another,this is why there haven't been any assumptions made of behalf of any recreational or other users and not a mention of any proposed reference areas.


    The Group state:
    Quote
    Implications for stakeholders
    The Regional Stakeholder Group has had no discussions to date regarding the compatibility of activities with features within this site.



    Quote
    JNCC MARINE CONSERVATION OBJECTIVE GUIDANCE.
    In many cases survey and monitoring data will not be available for an area, and it will be necessary to determine feature condition indirectly, by assessing whether the activities currently occurring are likely to have caused damage to the feature

    The regional stakeholder group (RSG), with support from the project team will try to ascertain if the activities present at a site are likely to put a feature at risk of not achieving favourable condition. The current condition of the feature is the key element in defining the draft conservation objective


    So....To arrive at a feature’s conservation objective the feature’s current condition must firstly be assessed. Logically it follows that the group must have discussed compatibility of activities with features within the site to arrive at a highly arbitrary conclusion of recover.

    The Honeycomb Worm reef is thriving, Dr Jane Lancaster has done an annual survey of the Cumbrian Coast for Cumbria Sea Fisheries since 1993. Dubmill Point is one of the focal points of the survey, the information is there in black and white.

    Look. there's big voice's within the group on behalf of other stakeholders and I get the feeling that Dubmill is being given up as some sort of offering to the JNCC & NE to meet set objectives.

    It really does stink but at the stage the project is now there should have been assumptions made on behalf of recreational or other users. It should be known where the reference areas were going to be. The last chance to say anything runs out on the 14th of April....How can concerns be voiced and replied to when the F^%$N group haven't divulged the information as should have been done by now as envisaged by the JNCC & NE.

    The group already know what the outcome is going to be and they're going to be well away when the truth comes out.
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2011
  11. oldchukka

    oldchukka Member

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    just another case of treating people like mushrooms. keep 'em in the dark, and feed 'em bullchitt. threre are also other groups, who would have fishing with rod and line banned altogether if they got their way.
    trying to read and digest all the bumf that has been put out, is a nightmare. maybe its designed to confuse people, while they work away at schemes to deprive anglers of doing what we've done for years, ----- just going out and fishing.??
  12. bradley57

    bradley57 Member

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    Bill when they first introduced the SSI site for the duddon estuary they were talking about banning bait digging as the beds looked less productive, it took a well known angler from millom to show them that the worms do not cast the same when easterly winds are blowing if the people in charge dont understand the shore what chance have you got.
  13. Tommy Legs

    Tommy Legs Member

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    STATED FACT The default conservation objective for a reference area is to recover.

    The group didn’t use survey data, had they used the data this would have shown the FOCI to be in favorable condition and the conservation objective would have been to maintain. See Dr Jane Lancaster’s Annual Survey of the Cumbria Coast. 1993 -2010

    STATED FACT The group used the SNCB matrix to arrive at their conclusion.

    The group based their conclusion on activities known to take place in the site.
    FACT Many of the activities listed don’t take place.


    Without doubt the best available data was to hand.

    Quote
    Dr Jane Lancaster (Newcastle University), to whom the project team have been engaged in dialogue, has extensive survey data from the Cumbrian coast. Dr Lancaster kindly Mapped out the intertidal habitat types and features from Tam Point to Allonby Bay, and identified Dubmill Point as an excellent example of Sabellaria alveolata reefs and Mytilus edulis beds on the Cumbrian coast

    The best available data wasn’t used because there wasn’t a question about the sites conservation objective; it had already been decided. To recover is the default objective of any reference area.

    Reference area - As sites or parts of sites, where all extraction, deposition or human-derived disturbance and damage is removed or prevented.


    MAINTAIN
    (current levels of activities are compatible with the feature, managed to ensure no increase in pressures


    RECOVER
    (management of certain activities may be required to remove pressures to which the feature is sensitive)

    Haven't got a lot of time but below is a link you should look at it tells you what activities will not be allowed in a reference area etc.
    Have a read, it's not too bad but look at the line on p4 item2 then look at the table of activities




    http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/MCZ-regional-guidance_tcm6-23451.pdf
  14. oldchukka

    oldchukka Member

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    yup, typical. but now the new directive to try putting us on the same footing as other e.u countries is here, and with people wanting to protect the wee birdies and the so called rare plants and flowers. there's a lot of orgs out there trying to restrict rsa activities. the r.s.p.b is just one of the orgs, who might just want bait digging curtailed. and they have a shed load of money to back it up. think hard also about the local situation with "her ladyship". she would be in her elements, if there was no access at all on north and south walney or foulney, except for cash paying birders.????
  15. rob5495

    rob5495 Member

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    Hi All, was told by a bloke on the beach that there are motions in place to create a no take zone from north of Dubmill point, out a mile, and 2 miles south. Apparently this means fishing will be banned in this zone. Any knowledgeable ones out there who know anything about this?
    Rob.
  16. oldchukka

    oldchukka Member

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    click this link.



    http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=438120
  17. rob5495

    rob5495 Member

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    Cheers Chukka.....this could be bad, let's hope not!
  18. Tommy Legs

    Tommy Legs Member

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    Just to get this back to the top again cos it's not going to go away.

    If an area is given MCZ status because of a certain feature, or habitat, in the case of dubmill, Honeycomb Worm Reef, there is a table that lists all human events etc that affect the feature. Bait Collecting is one of the highest rated.
    Sea angling also is deemed to affect the honeycomb worm reef.
    Be warned that this area is very likely to become a reference area
    here is what this will entail black and white

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 11, 2011
  19. Tommy Legs

    Tommy Legs Member

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    Mate....At best it will be bad. At it's worst it will be beyond belief.
    To top it off it will be just the start.
  20. recorder

    recorder Member

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    The NWSAL are holding a meeting with a rep from the marine conservation zones, on wednesday april 13th in the Union Jack Club in Workington starting 7-30. all are welcome. we may get more information on what area's have been identified and what restrictions may be forced on us at this meeting.

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