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Article HPMA - The AT Fights Back

Discussion in 'The Angling Trust Forum' started by REG PHILLIPS, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. bigfish murtha

    bigfish murtha Member

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    Anyone see the draw of the Scottish way of seeing sea angling now....???
     
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  2. smart201

    smart201 Member

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    No.....tried it and it doesn't work....
    Mart.
     
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  3. bigfish murtha

    bigfish murtha Member

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    Really.....what parts exactly..??
    And what parts of the other nations sea angling regs would you swap it for....or adopt..???
     
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  4. smart201

    smart201 Member

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    TBH BM, my reply to your comment above was purely aimed at the 'do nothing approach' mostly advocated by you and others at the other end of our Country.

    Looking at the SFSA website however, it looks very similar to what the AT is trying to do down here and they state as an objective -

    • To maintain links with all relative agencies in the areas of marine conservation, planning and legislation such as Scottish Government, SEPA, Marine Scotland and SNH.

    • To actively campaign to protect sea anglers interests when potential threats to those interests arise.
    I notice they are also in favour of Bluefin Tuna research with a view to opening up a recreational fishery, and are also actively supporting the Sea Angling Dairy initiative for sustainable fishing through catch recording...


    So I would say that your Org in Scotland is pretty much singing off the same Hymsheet as the AT..... at least for objectives?

    My own personal view, which could be miles off by the way, is that my neck of the woods off the South Coast is like chalk and cheese to Scotland. I wouldn't expect to be an expert on whats going on in your patch, and I'd be very surprised if you fully knew what is going on down here?

    You and your fellow Scottish Anglers have your areas where you are free to go and do what you want, and to a MUCH lesser degree, we are the same down here.

    My take on Scottish Angling, and again, I could well be wrong, is there are still vast areas of relatively un-fished and more importantly, un-spoilt coastline, and long may it continue for you.....

    Down here is a vastly different story....

    There is far too much pressure being put on the coastal environment, and the fish stocks, including the base of the food-chain is under threat from several areas, with the biggest threat coming from (some forms of) commercial fishing - both from UK and EU boats.

    Taking Bass as an example, some Scottish Anglers are having a great time, and several Scottish posters are asking what all the fuss is about down here with us moaning - plenty of Bass to catch and why are there restrictions on take?

    Taken in isolation, without looking at the bigger picture, and the argument is a sound one....

    But Bass are at their Northern Limit in Scotland now....their OLD Northern limit was a line from east to west across the wash 30 odd years ago.

    That's a big shift, and SHOULD mean more and bigger fish for us down south as the mass moves Northwards.

    Trouble is, our Bassing has been hit drastically with over fishing, and the stock you are able to catch currently, could be the last stronghold of fish?

    What is going on in Cornwall currently needs to be looked at not only by all sea Anglers, but also by the Authorities urgently. There are a few people working really hard to get this noticed and publicised more, but it is truly staggering that this level of apathy, ineptitude and alleged vested interest with the Cornish Netsmen by the Cornish IFCA, is allowed to continue - its scandalous to be honest.

    So with the above scenario, my take on it is enough is enough and something had to be done.

    If I was in a region where the fishing was great, I'd have no hesitation in betting that any anglers including myself would be agreeing with your stance, but unfortunately that's not the case down here, and for the majority of England & Wales?

    Best regards,

    Mart.
     
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  5. blakdog

    blakdog Member

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    We're all mad if we let these go through unchallenged. The initial phase is only the start of things and the conservation side WILL want to ban angling. Alongside this Natural England are going through the process of preparing draft byelaws to ban various activities including Angling on SSSIs under their control ... this isn't a coincidence. It is also not a coincidence that there has been no representation of sea anglers in the current HPMA processes ... thats because they have already made up their minds that the plan is to lock anglers out so they don't want anglers in on things and interfering with their plan.

    Once we are locked out of the first phase they will all cheer about how successful it was (even if it isn't) and the next phase will automatically ban anglers. When they talk percentages it doesn't seem much ... where I am they are proposing to include every single estuary on this part of the coast ... it will be a significant angling area lost to us in the South east!

    I think the biggest question here is why is Benyon still an AT Ambassador .... he seems to be actively going against the interests of hobby anglers.
     
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  6. blakdog

    blakdog Member

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    Your obviously entitled to your opinion but I think everybody is being blind-sided right now. Things are changing and there is a new world order amongst the "conservation managers". They are not the same reasonable people that I dealt with at English Nature of the late 80s, early 90s when the River Colne SSSI was brought in. The new generation are very determined and there is a real desire to ban angling and are militant enough to try. As I said in my previous post ... Natural England are bulldozing through the processes to ensure that they can introduce byelaws in all the areas they manage ... it is no coincidence that they are doing that now. If people doubt me then fine ... but the shooting fraternity never expected that a small group including one very militant TV presenter would suddenly be able to overturn the general licence to protect the likes of the Wood Pigeon, a bird that was already around in plague proportions. We need to get militant now quite frankly because if we leave it too long it will be too late ....

    I am a member of the AT ... I don't agree with everything they say or do but I have paid to have my say and I think Benyon should be flung out on his Arris. Given that he is an AT Ambassador I really don't see that he had any place running the reveiw because you would assume a great deal of bias from an angling ambassador ... although as it turns out he seems to be no friend to Anglers.

    Time will tell i suppose.
     
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  7. blakdog

    blakdog Member

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    I should add that nobody will be more pleased than me if I am wrong and your suggestion that they are going to be fair and reasonable to anglers proves to be true.
     
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  8. REG PHILLIPS

    REG PHILLIPS Member

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    As an AT member you have even more right to let the AT know how you feel about this [email protected]
     
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  9. blakdog

    blakdog Member

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    Tis already in hand Reg.

    I think the AT got well and truly shafted on this. I would suspect that (not unreasonably) they maybe expected to be invited to be involved given that one of their own Ambassadors was appointed Chair of the review ... I imagine that other involved had different ideas. This is why I say that it doesn't look good for angling ... they seem to have been deliberately blocked from involvement and if thats the case it suggests that there are some agendas going on. The consultation process involved with Natural England's Byelaw powers went much the same way. There were a number of strong objections and they were simply pushed aside ... they had made up their mind what they were going to do and how already; the consultation was simply a paper exercise where they had no intention of taking the opinions of anybody else into account.

    This is what I meant in my earlier post ... the conservationists of today are not like the ones we used to deal with .... they have long term objectives, they communicate between the different "factions" and are now starting to get the ears of high ranking government officials. Many of the environmental lecturers and tutors in Universities of today are the extremists and activists of yesterday ... and conservation has become a very trendy subject around which a lot of money can be made these days! You only have to look at current political demonstrations to see how bloody perverse the mindset of some of our society is today.
     
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  10. Pontophouse

    Pontophouse Member

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    As an alternative to your plausible conspiracy theory..

    Maybe the group, including it's chair, didn't know, or don't believe that, the AT (are supposed to) represent recreational sea angling in England?
     
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  11. Beachmanjo

    Beachmanjo Member

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    What about the humble beavers and the cuddly cormorants :( they want them gone :(
     
  12. Barry Wilson

    Barry Wilson Member

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    Even if that were the case, I would ask you who/how they should consult-or are you just happy to not be represented?
     
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  13. Pontophouse

    Pontophouse Member

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    Of course we should be properly represented Barry.

    We have here yet another thread saying what a great job the AT are doing fighting back after the event.

    They are on the back foot again, outside the tent p!ssing in rather than being involved in and influencing the debate like RSA's representative body should be.
     
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  14. REG PHILLIPS

    REG PHILLIPS Member

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    I share your opinion of Natural England and what has gone on behind closed doors.
     
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  15. Barry Wilson

    Barry Wilson Member

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    I am sorry mate but you do seem to have a habit of raising the temperature in these discussions and them accusing others of petty name calling.
    Back to the issue in hand:
    1.You agree we should be represented but you stop short of saying who by?
    2.The thread is trying to be informative in advising what action is being taken. Of course I agree it is most unfortunate that AT were not part of the panel-(through no lack of trying I might add). If that is ,as you say, because of lack of membership then the answer seems obvious. I believe it is better to be a member and have my say than just have no representation at all.
    I also believe it is disengenuous to accuse AT "outside the tent p!ssing in".What would you have them do -nothing. They are outside the tent because Uk Sea Anglers refuse to recognise the threats that Blakdog has so accurately described.
    Coarse and game Anglers (derided by some on here) are as usual ahead of the game and have far greater membership (and thus rightly so far)greater representation.They are sponsoring sea anglers in AT,although things are improving with increasing numbers joining AT and BASS.(You will have noted the recent donations raised on the bass lure forum) lure. Too many sea anglers seem to feel that they will always carry on just like they always did and things can`t change . Tell that to the hunters,gun owners,wildfowlers and lately pigeon shooters.
    Antis are loaded with cash and have the organisation to bring about change in public opinion very quickly and boy you better get organised for the future if you want to face them.
    I repeat who `s going to represent you?

    PS As a member of AT I was able to express my opinion of Benyon being an Ambassador and got a reply within 24hrs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
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  16. self determination

    self determination Member

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    As usual a very reasonable post by yourself, always worth a read. Couple of things though, regarding the distribution of Bass 30 years ago. People fished for them in the same areas of Scotland i do now as long ago as the 70's. I know this as my father was one of them and a colleague of his did nothing else but spend nearly every holiday and weekend fishing for them back then.

    They are establishing themselves in areas where we only saw the odd one getting caught 20 years ago, but the shift hasn't been as profound as the fisheries people for one lot would think.

    The quote you have from the SFSA is a generic piece. I understand there is some small group that have managed to have some discussion between all the organisations to get them singing from the same hymn sheet, though sadly it's as much to do with getting access to the meagre amount of government funding available to angling than actually pushing the benefits to the right people.

    There are a lot of people that think the Scottish coast is largely unfished, especially from Yorkshire and the North East, it really isn't the case, just the people that tend to fish the most remote areas aren't the type to broadcast it on social media for fear of attracting the littering bevy joint smoking lot that tend to leave our coast an utter tip wherever they fish.

    There is a lot of pressure on the areas Bass are present up here, from anglers keeping bags of schoolies to significant amounts of illegal gill netting along with the closure of many power stations that helped get these localised populations established, we do not have the high levels of near shore trawling and netting you do though. It tends to be proper commercials up here when it comes to fish,if you can see land when dropping nets they are only playing at it ;)

    One thing we all have in common, wherever we live in the United Kingdom, is a lack of decent enforcement of current laws and a regression in protection of our coastal waters. The 3 mile limit that we used to have in Scotland for mobile gear is all that would need applied right around the coast to ensure all the protection that is required for physical features and juvenile fish, demersal eggs, larva etc. I could never understand why all the various orgs couldn't get behind a simple few points and push really hard for them. The three mile limit, access rights for anglers and all new coastal developments ,ferry terminals,harbours, housing etc to have purpose built angling areas rather than no fishing signs that tend to happen now.

    Whether people are in favour of a licence or not, we definitely need some sort of game wardens like they have in the States. Preferably provided with tasers to deal with the scum element they will definitely encounter at the beginning of a new era. Once they have been tased and lifted by the Police once or twice they will get the message. All pie in the sky i know,but it really isn't difficult coming up with something all sea anglers can get behind and it doesn't take much harassing of the relevant Minister these days to get thing on Parliaments agenda.
    SD
     
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  17. self determination

    self determination Member

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    To be fair it hasn't done the Clyde much good, but i do see your point.
    SD
     
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  18. blakdog

    blakdog Member

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    Instead of blaming the AT you should maybe wonder why they were not automatically included .... the simple answer is that they were deliberately locked out of the process.

    The world has changed big time ... not only do they have more money but all the politicians love them ... they all want to earn green brownie points these days.

    Me too ... I hope a lot more people have had a moan at them ... he's as much use to anglers as a hook with no point.
     
  19. smart201

    smart201 Member

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    Many thanks for the informative reply....have to agree with everything you say
    Mart.
     
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