[matchman]

A friend of mine has asked Me to put this thread together, He was fishing on the Admiralty Pier,Dover, over the weekend ,a lad next to him asked him what He thought of his new Abu Hellbender ,bought that morning from a local tackle dealer, on inspecting the rings ( expecting Fugi's to be fitted as is advertised ) He noticed they were marked up 'PB'-evidently this stands for 'Pac Bay' or to give the company the correct name 'Pacific Bay'- These are a 'cheepo copy' of the Fugi BNHG intermediate rings,and Fuji BPHT tip rings. Not realy what You would expect from a company such as Abu Garcia, anyway check out the claims made on the enclosed pics that come from page 49 of the 2009 Abu Garcia trade catalogue, then check the rings on Your nice new 'Hellbender'.( Be asking for me money back, or a rebuild if it were Me !!!)

 

[red90]

I assume it's the angle of the photo, but the guide shown in the first pic actually looks bent.

 

[Rob]

Interesting because some tackle dealers list them as having Fuji guides, some as Fuji type guides, some just list them as SIC guides, some list them as three legged guides and some list them as quality guides. There are also several different Hellbenders ranging from 120 quid up to 180 so there maybe only Fuji's on the high spec models. I'd do some research and talk to the tackle shop first.

 

[Welshy]

Thats shocking, but as already said check with the tackle shop first.

I looked at the hellbender when I was buying a new rod, glad i spent the extra 140 quid to get me a spanking nemesis slr.

If it comes out to be true then i'd ask... DEMAND a rebuild or a refund...

If it turns out that the eyes are meant to be like that and are official fuji on the top model then its still misleading to the consumer who thinks they're getting something there not.

Jon

 

[Rob]

The other possibility is that the 2009 models do actually have Fuji guides and you may have a 2008 model.

 

[karlos]

abu arnt the only ones to do this.

had the same on diawa rod i bought.tdsb12f.all but two rings now fuji as had to replace them over last 4 years.own fault,droped and smashed on rocks etc..

problem is the companys involved usally have a get out claus somewhere in the small print..

ie:specs may change etc..

to be fair sometimes its down to retailers incorrectly advertising something,i see in this case it isnt but usally is..

now pac bay rings arnt actually that bad as "copys" go,and no doubting its probably built on a decent blank(most inportant imo) but can see where your comming from..

i would check any small print relating to changes in spec etc and if there aint any then you would have a good case against abu..

i would try to get them to either rebuild to advertised specs,or pay up for cost of rebuild..or theres always full refund root. but then you have to try find another rod your happy with to replace it and most rods around the same price generly have same quality rings fitted..

 

[Guest]

From TSF.........

 

[red90]

With Fuji BNHG guides supposedly discontinued (I believe that is the case, there were several threads on the subject), I am surprised how many new rods are still made with them, and advertised as such. ABU are not the only ones using them. I don't mind, I still like them, but I would rather trust an SME like Century than a company that has been absorbed by an international group.

 

[wooky114]

How about if the rod's fitted with a Fuji tip ring and Pac Bay guides throughout the rest of the blank... the rod still had Fuji guides as advertised... just not all the guides are Fuji

 

[cigar-smoker]

Confusing as Reelfishing states the following:

Abu Hellbender Beachcasters

Hellbender series is a complete new ABU GARCIA series dedicated to surfcasting. All sliding Grip fi t reel seats with coloured reducers and Fuji guides. These strong and powerfull rods are going to amaze you thanks to the fantastic Multi-Dynamic HM blank and the selection of hi-level components used to make these tools! Also available in increasingly popular longer lengths for accurate distance casting.

Hellbender HS 1293 Surf - HM Carbon blank, SiC Shock Absorber Rings, 3 sections, 12ft 9" (3,87m), 1.98m transport length, 4-8oz casting weight, 963g in weight,

Hellbender PRO 1283 Surf - HM Carbon blank, SiC Shock absorber rings, 3 sections, 12ft 8" (3.83m), 1.96m transport length, 4-8oz casting weight, 808g in weight

Hellbender M 1282 Surf - HM Carbon Blank, SiC shock absorber rings, 3 sections, 12ft 8" (3,83m), 1.96m transport length, 4-8oz casting weight, 796g in weight.

The first section states Fuji but then they clearly state SiC shock absorber rings???? Whichever way the rings look good and appear to be far better quality than many others:g:

 

[karlos]

maybe fuji has just become a generic name for any green shock lined ring.
ilegal but only if fuji can be bovered with the law suits.

pacific bay do make quality bits though that are used by lots of manufactures.afaw,daiwa,shimano,and a few others.

problem is with most things made in the far east these days no one knows whos making what for who..
its the same with tvs,computers,and lots of other things.
most sony products are just rebadged as sony.
lg make the screen panels for lots of different tvs and moniters and so on.

fuji have stopped maufacturing these, "the official" rings,but rod manufactures must have wharehouses full of them so they will be around for a while yet..

 

[Guest]

Checked My Hellbenders, def Pacific Bay rings, not to bothered though as they look like good quality rings, and checked them out on web (Pacific Bay reveiws etc) general opinion is good quality products, but it is a bit naughty of Abu.

 

[blakdog]

While I can't judge the actual rings you have on the rod as i've not seen them, Pacific Bay rings are by no means all cheapo rubbish, PB are a well respected ring maker and turn out some very good quality stuff.

Given the quantity or rods that ABU produce its not surprising that they will have had to change the rings they used for the rod as the stocks of BNHGs dwindled due to Fuji's indecision regarding the future of the BNHG ..... would you rather they just stopped producing rods? As someone said they will have covered themselves with a term in their catalogue and that is hardly unreasonable if you consider that a lack of one rod component could completely halt their production line.

On a final note, the BNHG is not out of production (although stock levels are definately a bit haphazard still) and both Fuji and Hopkins and Holloway are apparently re-tooling so its likely that it will remain available for a while longer especially if it maintains its popularity.

 

[matchman]

Had a reply from Martin Hayward of Hopkins and Holloway today, they are out of stock of certain sizes of BNHG at present but should have them all in stock sometime before the year end, so do not be put off building your rods with the BNHG/BPHT guides. The main problem seems to be that the rest of the world is not as discerning as the UK market when it comes to building their rods and are quite happy to be offered a cheaper alternative ring, If We put pressure on people like ABU to have BNHG's fitted as standard then, as they have most rods built abroad, the world rod producers will have to take notice and put preasure on Fuji to continue production. I suppose this situation has come about through our own faults for expecting and accepting cheaper products. Same old Same old!! Build em cheap,pile em high,get rid of them fast,get the money in the bank and bu**er anyone that brings it back cos it bust! Sorry BlackDog and others ,but if I spend My hard earned dosh on a supposedly 'quality' build with the best rings in the world-then thats what i would like, is it to much to expect ,getting the product that has been advertised ?

 

[Bread]

As Blakdog says, there is probably nothing wrong with the copies - I really wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Ravelling Tangler]

BNHG "the best rings in the world" Hah !




Oh, you meant some of the other superb rings Fuji make ? Especially the titanium-framed ones.



Bring back Harchromes, and good old Abu chromed metal coil rings (were they called "speed rings" or maybe "Zoom" rings ?), that's what I say !


I am sure PhiltheRod or Stan could give us some perspective, but I'd not blame them if they didn't want to risk it:- we all have our favourites and can get quite irrational if they are 'dissed' without conclusive, exact proof.

 

[philtherod]

Rods designed by Alan Yates (Fox, i think), are fitted with the Pacbay rings I recommended as the BNHG replacements a while back. I can tell you something about supplying demand, a few years ago one angler who wanted a recently discontinued rod blank phoned shops all round the U.K. asking if the shops had one in stock. The manufacturer was asked by the shops if he had a blank laying about, all this demand was created by one angler, who didn't get the blank required, as the material was no longer available. The U.K's demand for the old BNHG pattern is minimal by comparison with the rest of the world, and the machinery is worn-out (its almost 40 years old!).
Me? I've just build a rod with Low riders for an experiment...someone has to try it!

ptr

 

[red90]

Before you ask, I don't have the statistics to prove it, but somehow I doubt that the UK demand for BNHGs is "minimal". The UK has always favoured rod designs that differ from elsewhere. Not just in Europe but in the world. BNHG guides suit traditional British rods, and I reckon there will be a market for them for a while to come. In my humble and limited opinion, they do the biz a lot better than the later designs.

 

[matchman]

In 15 years as a tackle shop owner and a good many before as a rod builder i/we have built/rebuilt /repi aredhundreds of rods and have not once ,REPEAT NOT ONCE, ever been asked to change a BNHG because it had brocken, had a couple of inserts pop out ,but easily replaced, had a couple of BPHT's gone west due to clumsyness from the user, had to change the odd one due to corrosion, but they do not break. I once suffered the worlds first documented case of 'rod rage' on Princes Parade during a match when things were going orribly wrong,Illost the plot for a second or two and took my frustration out on a very supprised docwra winged brolley ,beat it to death with a quattra 2 -,tip ring fell off but the bnhg's-nothing,nil,neit nada, so wise up chaps the BNHG is the best ring for our style of beach caster, Phil and i have always differed on this one cos he likes the lightness of other guides, and dont get me wrong Fuji make a lot of other good guides but the BNHG is the one, WTF do You think ABU advertised it as fitted to the Hellbender in the first place,didnt say pac bay guides fitted as standard did it, wonder why !

 

[philtherod]

I'm sure i can find a fistful of cracked BNHG pattern rings I have removed from anglers rods in the last couple of years and put in the waste bin...the centres are extremely fragile (the design is 40 years old, modern AlOx is a lot tougher), otherwise why woud they need the shock ring? I suspect Stan can do exactly the same, why fit the fishings equivalent of a formula 1 with the seats from a Ford Granada? The driver would be comfortable, but how many races would he win? Answers on the back of a £20 note and send to the RNLI, my favourite charity.

philtherod.