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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have just read Phil Williams article on anchoring on Boat Fishing magazine.
While there is some sound advice, there is some that is downright dangerous, particularly if followed by novices. He recommends hauling an anchor over the side of the boat in preference to accessing it through a bow hatch. In my opinion this is asking for trouble.
He also recommends attaching a lazy line by tying one end to the winching eye and securing the other to the anchor warp so that the load is transferred from the warp through the lazy line to the winching eye! This means that the only way to release the line quickly in an emergency is to either haul in till the lazy line comes round the side of the boat (meaning you are side anchored) OR you have to hang over the bow, reach down to the winching eye and cut/untie it there!
I pitty the poor souls who are following his advice when they get caught at anchor in heavy weather.:uhuh:
 

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takes some thinking about,:g: but you do work on the life boat so you must have seen this before, i dont like the idear of steaming of so the bouy lifts the anchor in case it is stuck in rocks or a wreck. but on the other hand people have done it for years and swear by it, so if you take the risk and all goes wrong your in deep trouble thats why when it was brought up on here earler in the week people answerd with warning:clap3: :clap3:

see link below


http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60180
 

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Agreed the lazyline should not come off the winch eye. It should be off the samson post (if that's the right term) so that it is easily reached from the hatch for quick release. Otherwise, there's no capacity to dump the anchor in a fast emergency like an impending collision.
As for side hauling versus bow hauling of a fixed anchor, arguments go both ways. Bow hauling is going to be less hazardous in heavy seas up to the point where a sea reaches the open hatch.....
To be fair to Phil though, he is talking of recovery by Alderney Buoy where the actual manual hauling is light work and done on the drift after the boat has broken out the gear under power. That's different. I freely alternate between side or bow recovery of warp and anchor according to whether I'll be re-anchoring later as I don't use a lazy line. I don't understand why people need to use a lazy line for buoyed recoveries if they have an adequate front hatch?

Steve
 

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In A World Of His Own
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hi surely hauling from the side with the use of a lazy line is far more safe using it from a boat with no boat hatch as opposed to climbing around to the bow( not advisable) as i am still a bit confused still as to how to approach anchoring especially if you out on your own i have searched a few sites and posted about lazy lines and recieved great advice from you folk.. using a bouy to help hand haul the anchor seems a good idea, so is there a an alround recommended way of hauling with light anchors up 10kilos cheers andy
 

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hi surely hauling from the side with the use of a lazy line is far more safe using it from a boat with no boat hatch as opposed to climbing around to the bow
Hi Andy,
That's correct. What confuses me is why people with perfectly good hatches still use the lazy line with buoyed recoveries. There's got to be advantages I'm not seeing?

Steve
 

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hi surely hauling from the side with the use of a lazy line is far more safe using it from a boat with no boat hatch as opposed to climbing around to the bow( not advisable) as i am still a bit confused still as to how to approach anchoring especially if you out on your own i have searched a few sites and posted about lazy lines and recieved great advice from you folk.. using a bouy to help hand haul the anchor seems a good idea, so is there a an alround recommended way of hauling with light anchors up 10kilos cheers andy
Fishing from a small boat will always have its dangers. Personally speaking, i wouldn`t have a boat were i couldn`t work from the bow safely.
I had a shetland in the past which had a small front hatch you could stand up through and reach the anchor rope and cleat but that wasn`t ideal.
I have also worked from the side, both with a lazy line, and using the Alderney bouy method. Yes, both methods can be done ok, and yes it `fairly safe` providing the sea conditions are right.

Agreed the lazyline should not come off the winch eye. It should be off the samson post (if that's the right term) so that it is easily reached from the hatch for quick release. Otherwise, there's no capacity to dump the anchor in a fast emergency like an impending collision
Having used a lazy line in the past ,i can tell you if the need had ever come up to dump the anchor it would have taken seconds to pull in a few feet of anchor rope (as it`s in the cockpit with you) and cut the warp past the loop ataching it to the lazy line, or cut the lazy line and dump the warp over the side. Thinking about it, it would proberly take me longer to get up to the front of my Merry Fisher or go inside a boat and open up a hatch.


i dont like the idear of steaming off so the bouy lifts the anchor in case it is stuck in rocks or a wreck
If your anchor is set to trip and you use the method correctly you "shouldn`t" get stuck. You only start off at a slow speed so if the anchor dosn`t move the worst thing that happens is the bow of the boat swings round.
I always tell people on board to hold on well when doing this, just for that reason as i have have it happen twice and if the anchor gets stuck it can send people off ballance as the bow swings round.

Alan
 

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Hi Andy,
That's correct. What confuses me is why people with perfectly good hatches still use the lazy line with buoyed recoveries. There's got to be advantages I'm not seeing?

Steve
I think a lot of people find it hard to access the hatch or dont have much room in there boat to work from there so they tend to stay in the cockpit and use a lazy line.
When i used a lazy line and it got a bit choppy i always pulled in the slack warp from the front hatch as you would be beam-on pulling in from the cockpit and things could get dodgy.
But it was nice and easy in the cockpit when it was calm.

Alan
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I pass my lazy line (with caribina on the end) from a cleat at the side through the bow roller and back round to the side.

The anchor is dropped over the side with the Alderney ring and buff attached.

When the anchor has reached the bottom and the buff is clear of the side, the caribina on the lazy line is clipped around the anchor warp (the warp should be able to slide through the caribina). Pulling on the cleated end of the lazy line will then pull the anchor warp up to the bow roller.
Cleat off the lazy line so that the caribina (with the anchor warp passing through it) is tight against the bow roller.

The anchor warp will then pay out round the side of the cuddy and be guided through the bows. Simply cleat off the anchor warp on a second side cleat as required.

when recovering the anchor, the warp can be drawn up through the caribina which is held at the bow. If you uncleat the lazy line and pull on the anchor warp the warp and caribina will swing around to the side of the boat for recovery over the side.

The advantage of this technique is that you have full control of all movements from inside the cuddy. Also, if you need to ditch the anchor in a hurry you can just uncleat the warp and lazy line and toss the lot over the side - so long as what is on the end of the rope is too big to pass through the Alderney ring, then you will be able to recover the rig via the anchor buff.

Ensure that the Lazy line, caribina and cleats are strong enough to take the strain of hauling the anchor.
 

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I pass my lazy line (with caribina on the end) from a cleat at the side through the bow roller and back round to the side.

The anchor is dropped over the side with the Alderney ring and buff attached.

When the anchor has reached the bottom and the buff is clear of the side, the caribina on the lazy line is clipped around the anchor warp (the warp should be able to slide through the caribina). Pulling on the cleated end of the lazy line will then pull the anchor warp up to the bow roller.
Cleat off the lazy line so that the caribina (with the anchor warp passing through it) is tight against the bow roller.

The anchor warp will then pay out round the side of the cuddy and be guided through the bows. Simply cleat off the anchor warp on a second side cleat as required.

when recovering the anchor, the warp can be drawn up through the caribina which is held at the bow. If you uncleat the lazy line and pull on the anchor warp the warp and caribina will swing around to the side of the boat for recovery over the side.

The advantage of this technique is that you have full control of all movements from inside the cuddy. Also, if you need to ditch the anchor in a hurry you can just uncleat the warp and lazy line and toss the lot over the side - so long as what is on the end of the rope is too big to pass through the Alderney ring, then you will be able to recover the rig via the anchor buff.

Ensure that the Lazy line, caribina and cleats are strong enough to take the strain of hauling the anchor.

A good veriation to the method i used.:clap3:
Wish i had tried that, would have saved tying a loop in the warp.
i had my lazy line tied on the bow cleat with a caribina on the end.
I droped te anchor ,let out enough warp and then tied a butterfly knot to form a loop in the warp and cliped on the caribina,I then let out more warp till the strain was on the lazy line.

Alan
 

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Thank you Gibberfish.
I have tried a few variations on Phil Williams method, never really found one I was totally confident with.
Your variation on that method sounds spot-on. I will try it this year.
 

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In A World Of His Own
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hi does the size of the anchor have anything to do with this as it seems to me that with a light anchor side hauling could be ok as the size of anchor increases so must the effort and the risk of rolling over (IF THATS THE CORRECT TERM I HAVE NO BOAT YET) must increase also if you have no hatch a cannot get round to the bow so then what method do you use as there only now seems to be 2 choices side or alderney but if you cannot make the required speed to lift the anchor it must only leave you one choice side hauling cheers andy
 

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or alderney but if you cannot make the required speed to lift the anchor it must only leave you one choice side hauling cheers andy
Providing you have a decent sized buoy on the ring, you can easily lift the anchor at anything over 4knts ( I lift mine at 5knts)
 

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hi does the size of the anchor have anything to do with this as it seems to me that with a light anchor side hauling could be ok as the size of anchor increases so must the effort and the risk of rolling over (IF THATS THE CORRECT TERM I HAVE NO BOAT YET) must increase also if you have no hatch a cannot get round to the bow so then what method do you use as there only now seems to be 2 choices side or alderney but if you cannot make the required speed to lift the anchor it must only leave you one choice side hauling cheers andy

You would find it very hard to roll a boat over pulling up any sort of anchor. most small boats have quit a low gunnel(side hight), and that would proberly go down to water level and you would start to ship in water( if you had the strength to pull that hard) .then only if the anchor was stuck.
You only need to make about 8 knots (maybe less as Davy says) for a bouy to lift the anchor.
Size of anchor depends on size of boat,most smal boats use no more than a 7.5kg Bruce or similar.

Alan
 

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hi even thou i have no boat all this contradictory advice over anchoring is beginning now to give me some worries if anchoring has so many bad points
1/ why do we do it
2/ what is a recognised safe way of anchoring if there is one
3/sould all fishing be done on the drift
4/ so how do the majority of people anchor
cheers andy
 
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hi even thou i have no boat all this contradictory advice over anchoring is beginning now to give me some worries if anchoring has so many bad points
1/ why do we do it
2/ what is a recognised safe way of anchoring if there is one
3/sould all fishing be done on the drift
4/ so how do the majority of people anchor
cheers andy
We all have our different ways of anchoring and over a few trips we learn to get it right so that it is not dangerous. There are more dangerous aspects to boating than using an anchor. In answer to your questions:
1) We anchor so that we can fish a specific area or in the event of the engine not starting so that we do not drift into danger.
2) Use the correct anchor for the type of ground you are fishing. Ensure that you have sufficient rope and chain for the anchor to work
3) Not all fishing can be done on the drift. It is ok for wrecking for Pollack, Cod, Bass etc but generally not when fishing for Conger and Ling. At certain states of the tide you could be drifting at 6-7 kts which is too fast for most bottom feeders and many other species too.
4) I use an Alderney Ring retieval and rarely have a problem although I have twice lost an anchor in the past 4 years, both times in an unfamiliar area to me. I cut the rope rather than risk the safety of me and my crew and boat.
 

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hi even thou i have no boat all this contradictory advice over anchoring is beginning now to give me some worries if anchoring has so many bad points
1/ why do we do it
2/ what is a recognised safe way of anchoring if there is one
3/sould all fishing be done on the drift
4/ so how do the majority of people anchor
cheers andy
firstly there are not many ways of presenting bait to bottom fish whilst on the drift secondly dispite all the posts alderny ring and bhouy is a relitavley safe way of anchor hauling when I used to hand haul i would lose a couple of anchors a year, the secret is being prepared to let the anchor trip i havent lost an anchor in three years using this method, the safest method is via windlas without a doubt,i dont know how the majority anchor to be honest you should also be able to anchor and retreive competantly as it is your boats handbrake it is just a skill that takes a little mastering but I promise you it is absoloutly nessisary
 

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hi even thou i have no boat all this contradictory advice over anchoring is beginning now to give me some worries if anchoring has so many bad points
1/ why do we do it
2/ what is a recognised safe way of anchoring if there is one
3/sould all fishing be done on the drift
4/ so how do the majority of people anchor
cheers andy
I don`t really think your getting contradictory advice as such, it`s more of a variation on a theme.
The boat type and layout will have a large part to play in things.
I know you personally don`t have a boat, but for example..
How big is the boat?
Does the boat have a front hatch?
Does the boat have an anchor locker in the bow?
Are there walkways around to the bow?
If so are they safe to use? ie handrails,guide wires, toe rails??
Is there room on the bow to work from (safely)?
Is there a pulpit around the bow?
How much room is there in the cockpit?

All these type of things and more will effect the day to day operation of the boat, the way you go about doing things.

Alan
 

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Alan has it dead right. The subject is one of those 'It all depends' for an answer.

I think the first rule that a newcomer to boating needs to get his/her head around is.

THE ONLY HARD AND FAST RULE IS.... THERE ARE NO HARD AND FAST RULES because there are so many factors.

One needs lots of common sense, a fair bit of paranoia (prepare for the worst , and then some) and the willingness to watch and learn.

I would say on this anchoring subject that side hauling a still embedded anchor in anything of a tide is REALY dodgy and asking for trouble. I always use the Alderney method and have the anchor set to trip upside down if it gets jambed.

Afishionado
 

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Attempting to raise an anchor aboard a small angling boat by attempting to 'drive' it out, using a Lazy Line, Alderney Ring or whatever, is potentially the most dangerous manoeuvre you can perform aboard a small boat. Get it wrong, and the result is the rapid sinking of your boat; as happens every year at locations around the country.

Certainly this is NOT a technique you can learn reading a book, magazine or forum. If you are intending to try this, I respectfully suggest you ask the advice of someone who is experienced, then be sure to practice under ideal conditions-shallow water, no tide or wind.

At the end of the day you are exerting a massive amount of load on a very small area of what in most cases is a piece of glorified plastic, which can have catastrophic results. The other major risk is the warp becoming tangled around the engine leg, resulting in the boat becoming anchored stern first into the tide, which in most cases will drag the transom under water in seconds.

Yes, its an easy way to retrieve an anchor, but as I think I have pointed out it requires more than a passing knowledge of boat handling skills to perform safely. Remember, this was a technique passed down from large commercial/charter type boats; not your average trailerable angling dinghy.

Hope I've not been too negative, but I've have seen the results on too many occasions.

All the best.

Dave
 
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