I recon if there was a history book of all big bass ever caught , the j11 , and j13 , would have caught more big bass than any other lure ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


But to be fair , when these lures took more big bass ,
there were MORE big bass about .

My own thoughts are the bigger new lures ie , 175 minnow types ,

or just a right mouth full , is best bet of a biggy .

I still use j 13 a lot , takes longer to get a fish , but average size is bigger imho

 

16.11lbs on a viper plug .thats the geeman.. good post makes u think dont it.. like this foram does all the time ...went out today bloody boiling thrashed the water to a foam ..loads of scum on the water ..smothered in green crap ..my little red rods all green now ..done graham proud ..loads of bigmullet swiming around ..could have touched them ..but i didnt care that i blanked it was great just being out there smelling the mud and weed ..this kes guy does some great posts.. a lot of us think on the same lines .iv thought about beefing up my gear for next year as i have cunning plans

 

good post kes
i think your spot on when say big bass are looking for a big easy meal
i dont think there to fond of charging around after food all day
and thats were the rapalas come into there own as the can be worked slow and deep so the become easier targets for the big ones !!

also find i catch a better quality of fish on the soft plastics over the plugsh34r:

 

I recon if there was a history book of all big bass ever caught , the j11 , and j13 , would have caught more big bass than any other lure ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


But to be fair , when these lures took more big bass ,
there were MORE big bass about .

My own thoughts are the bigger new lures ie , 175 minnow types ,

or just a right mouth full , is best bet of a biggy .

I still use j 13 a lot , takes longer to get a fish , but average size is bigger imho

Hi Mark,

No doubt you are right about the numbers of bigger bass that were around when the J11s and J13s ruled the seas. You may well be correct about the bigger Minnow types being “a right mouthful”, but I think that there are a couple of other factors that are also relevant to this comparison:

Firstly, I believe that bigger bass usually (not always, however) hang back a little further offshore than their smaller brethren. Most of my best fish have come within a few turns of the reel handle after the lure has hit the surface (although I would readily admit it could just be the spots that I fish). A big Minnow will cast at least 20 metres further than a J11/13 meaning that the chances of covering a better fish are increased, therefore.

Secondly, I think that vibration plays a big part in how predators perceive their prey in water (NOT rattles – I can feel vibrations through my rod but I can’t feel rattles). I do not profess to understand the first thing about this other than the fact that fish are equipped with a range of sensory receptors that are designed to pick up these vibrations.

So, if you were to fish the Rapalas alongside the Minnows, so that you could compare like for like, I am not so sure that they would prove to be less effective at catching a big bass.

Anyhow, I hope that I am right in my thoughts because you should then give Joe a thrashing in your ‘Old v new’ challenge match!

Cheers,

Kes.

 

Kes,,

Thought provoking,
i have two words,,,soft plastics,,,,i agree with rip,,, plastic shads ,paddle tails are the way to go now we are at the back end,,

on average better quality of fish by far,,in the pic is the type of shad we are looking at,a GT Delalande shad 120mm in pearl

Gee

 

Kes,,

Thought provoking,
i have two words,,,soft plastics,,,,i agree with rip,,, plastic shads ,paddle tails are the way to go now we are at the back end,,

on average better quality of fish by far,,in the pic is the type of shad we are looking at,a GT Delalande shad 120mm in pearl

Gee

Hi Graham,

In trying to deceive a BIG bass, or any bass for that matter, a lure has to first attract the fish’s attention and the chances are that this will be done through sight, sound or vibration (not that many lures smell). Having got old, wily, Mrs Bass’ attention, I suspect that the more stimuli that I can provide that allude to a real fish, the better.

My point was simply that mackerel are an obvious, possibly preferred (?), source of food for big bass and my experience of mackerel tells me that they send out lots of vibrations that aren’t matched by many lures. Whilst they may no longer look the most lifelike, the lures that BEST match the feel of a mackerel (to me, you understand) are likely to be of the jointed hard type. Although SPs with big paddle tails send out lots of vibrations, those vibrations seem to be of a higher frequency and are less obvious – making them feel just a little less like a real fish (to me, again).

What we don’t know, however, is how bass prioritise what they see compared with what they feel when faced with a potential meal. It could be that it is the appearance of your shads which is the most important factor, rather than the vibrations, which is the key to their success – let’s be honest, shads look a lot more like a fish than most plugs. The fact that soft plastics have developed ‘big paddle tails’ suggests to me that vibration is, indeed, a VERY RELEVANT part of any lure’s operation.

Which brings me back to J11s, and the like!

Cheers,

Kes.

 

Hi Graham,

In trying to deceive a BIG bass, or any bass for that matter, a lure has to first attract the fish’s attention and the chances are that this will be done through sight, sound or vibration (not that many lures smell). Having got old, wily, Mrs Bass’ attention, I suspect that the more stimuli that I can provide that allude to a real fish, the better.

My point was simply that mackerel are an obvious, possibly preferred (?), source of food for big bass and my experience of mackerel tells me that they send out lots of vibrations that aren’t matched by many lures. Whilst they may no longer look the most lifelike, the lures that BEST match the feel of a mackerel (to me, you understand) are likely to be of the jointed hard type. Although SPs with big paddle tails send out lots of vibrations, those vibrations seem to be of a higher frequency and are less obvious – making them feel just a little less like a real fish (to me, again).

What we don’t know, however, is how bass prioritise what they see compared with what they feel when faced with a potential meal. It could be that it is the appearance of your shads which is the most important factor, rather than the vibrations, which is the key to their success – let’s be honest, shads look a lot more like a fish than most plugs. The fact that soft plastics have developed ‘big paddle tails’ suggests to me that vibration is, indeed, a VERY RELEVANT part of any lure’s operation.

Which brings me back to J11s, and the like!

Cheers,

Kes.

Kes,,

the paddle tail Delalande shads i use also roll so we have a dual action from one swim bait,there are also varied ways of presenting and fishing with the shads they do have a small vibration but nothing like a rapala j11,,
having said that i do understand what you are saying with the vibration thing i do know this works on some occasions but also heavy vibration can put or scare Bass off,as exessive popping with the likes of the feed popper,,:doh:
there is a lot more to this subject than anyone can imagine,,
so what do you think of this ,,
here is four of the most succesfull lures out there is the JTS ,Feed Shallow,Maria Chase,yo yo ,,,
nothing in common realy ,

JTS ,Jointed,storm

Feed shallow ,silent ,lipless,tackle house

maria chase silent,lipped maria

megabass yo yo vib lure

apart from those suttle differences they all work to catch Bass WHY???
the answer i believe is they all have the same oscelating rythm and the same pitch this rythem will get the bass going in some way ,annoyance i would say,

like the teacher scratching the blackboard :wallbash::wallbash:

Thats is a theory i have ,next time you are out check it out,,
there is also a lot to say abouth stealth lures and big bass,,

Gee

 

Kes,,

the paddle tail Delalande shads i use also roll so we have a dual action from one swim bait,there are also varied ways of presenting and fishing with the shads they do have a small vibration but nothing like a rapala j11,,
having said that i do understand what you are saying with the vibration thing i do know this works on some occasions but also heavy vibration can put or scare Bass off,as exessive popping with the likes of the feed popper,,:doh:
there is a lot more to this subject than anyone can imagine,,
so what do you think of this ,,
here is four of the most succesfull lures out there is the JTS ,Feed Shallow,Maria Chase,yo yo ,,,
nothing in common realy ,

JTS ,Jointed,storm

Feed shallow ,silent ,lipless,tackle house

maria chase silent,lipped maria

megabass yo yo vib lure

apart from those suttle differences they all work to catch Bass WHY???
the answer i believe is they all have the same oscelating rythm and the same pitch this rythem will get the bass going in some way ,annoyance i would say,

like the teacher scratching the blackboard :wallbash::wallbash:

Thats is a theory i have ,next time you are out check it out,,
there is also a lot to say abouth stealth lures and big bass,,

Gee

Graham,

You make a number of interesting observations and comments, all of which are accurate and valid – well, on their day, at any rate!

The four (of the) most successful lures you have selected are consistent bass catchers and may, or may not, have similar oscillating rhythms (a particular frequency of vibrations, presumably?) that bass find irritating. As I have said, I do believe that vibration is important; in the same way that a lure must also look the part and ‘swim’ correctly. The more of these things I can get right, the more likely I am to catch a fish. I suppose that I have to admit, as we all would, that I don’t know HOW MUCH vibration is right and whether I am attracting a bass or upsetting it!

Putting these thoughts aside, BIG bass do like a BIG mouthful and a lure that gives out BIG vibrations may just fool that bass into believing it is a BIG mouthful in a way that other lures can't! I don’t think that softs are able to convey that impression but have to admit that my experience of using shads and the like is very limited.

As you rightly say, however, “there is a lot more to this subject than anyone can imagine”. But it doesn’t stop me trying to think my way around these challenges (or talking gibberish!) and I will certainly try a bit of ‘stealth’ in my mix, as well.

Cheers,

Kes.

 

Hi Kes

I tried to separate from the smaller bass last time I was out. Had one of my best ever sessions from the kayak, a fish every cast for about two hours.

It started with the xrap SRX10 in mackerel, which is a killer for me. Like you say, it vibrates and looks like a tiny mackerel. Unfortunately, although it has taken bass to 7lb for me, it does catch a lot of smaller bass as well.

I switched to using a longer minnow to see if it would help (Tide Minnow first, then a Saltiga Minnow). I think it did, but it was marginal. I ended up fishing with the Saltiga minnow 120 (also looks very like a mackerel) and getting fish to about five and half pound. But the reason I went down to a shorter length was that three trebles on a plug was just causing me and the fish I wanted to return too much grief. Two trebles let me get on catching the next fish a lot faster. You can see the photos on my blog if you're interested.

But if you really want to experiment with this, you could try taking a look at the bigger swimbaits available for the US freshwater bass market. Probably more soft than hard swimbaits these days. Lures up to 250g that do seem to pick out the bigger fish. Unfortunately not only are such lures expensive, you do need a stiff rod to cast and work them, and your not going to cast them 70 yards into a gale. Would probably work off a kayak though...

In the meantime, the cheap and cheerful Saltiga Minnow 140 can catch monster bass (look at this beast - a 23lb, plug and shore-caught bass) should such a bass be lurking in your area. I'm afraid it's the usual - first find the fish, then worry about the lure mantra!

 

That's not a bass!!!!:doh::doh:

Gee

 

That's not a bass!!!!:doh::doh:

Gee

Well spotted Gee - think its called a Megre (or similar - Robalo had a whopper last year - post is one here somwhere)

 

Hi Kes

I tried to separate from the smaller bass last time I was out. Had one of my best ever sessions from the kayak, a fish every cast for about two hours.

It started with the xrap SRX10 in mackerel, which is a killer for me. Like you say, it vibrates and looks like a tiny mackerel. Unfortunately, although it has taken bass to 7lb for me, it does catch a lot of smaller bass as well.

I switched to using a longer minnow to see if it would help (Tide Minnow first, then a Saltiga Minnow). I think it did, but it was marginal. I ended up fishing with the Saltiga minnow 120 (also looks very like a mackerel) and getting fish to about five and half pound. But the reason I went down to a shorter length was that three trebles on a plug was just causing me and the fish I wanted to return too much grief. Two trebles let me get on catching the next fish a lot faster. You can see the photos on my blog if you're interested.

But if you really want to experiment with this, you could try taking a look at the bigger swimbaits available for the US freshwater bass market. Probably more soft than hard swimbaits these days. Lures up to 250g that do seem to pick out the bigger fish. Unfortunately not only are such lures expensive, you do need a stiff rod to cast and work them, and your not going to cast them 70 yards into a gale. Would probably work off a kayak though...

In the meantime, the cheap and cheerful Saltiga Minnow 140 can catch monster bass (look at this beast - a 23lb, plug and shore-caught bass) should such a bass be lurking in your area. I'm afraid it's the usual - first find the fish, then worry about the lure mantra!

Hi there biscuitlad,

I agree with you about the SRX10 mackerel Raps (only in blue, mind you, always done me proud - up to 8lbs but not at all selective) and agree whole-heartedly about the three trebles on the bigger minnows (can be a bit barbaric, although I would have to admit that I still use them sometimes, however).

I took a peek at the bigger swimbaits link you put up and it reminded me just how far we are behind our Trans Atlantic cousins when it comes to spinning! BUT, those swimbaits have given me an idea (God forbid, that’s two now!).....BULL DAWGS!!

I don’t do much freshwater fishing but I do like to read a little bit of what is happening in the ponds, rivers and lakes so that I can plagiarise any of the better ideas that they might come up with! From my meanderings I have come across the Bulldawg and know it is very highly rated for many freshwater predators. A quick ‘Google’ threw up Sovereign Superbaits and a range of Dawgs that can cover just about any and every fishing scenario I can imagine cropping up in the UK!

Now, I don’t know if anyone from this forum has tried using these softbaits for bass but there has simply got to be a potential BIG bass catcher in amongst this range of lures! (Might need a DC8 to cast it out though!!). Must get an order sorted out for one or two of these so that I can find out if they are as good as they look.

And I don’t care whether or not it is a bass or a meagre that swallows my offering so long as it’s 23lbs!

Cheers,

Kes.

 

Well spotted Gee - think its called a Megre (or similar - Robalo had a whopper last year - post is one here somwhere)

Cheers for that. Wondered why no one was making more of a fuss and the dots along its side did look a bit odd. Google translate doesn't do a great job. In the comments below it someone does talk about "corvina" (rather than the usual lubina), which google has alternative translations with both sea bass and "meager".

 

A quick ‘Google’ threw up Sovereign Superbaits and a range of Dawgs that can cover just about any and every fishing scenario I can imagine cropping up in the UK!

You might like to peruse the tackle tour website reviews of big swimbaits. They have certainly inspired me on occasion to try something new, both hard and soft, and they seem to know their stuff.

 

Lots of bigger bass taken this year like many years both on flies and lures. This year we played a lot with BIG and little softies and single hooks and landed some wonderful fish. Last year we fished BIG flies with no retrieve, drifted with similar results - lure, circumstances, tactics?..

 

Lots of bigger bass taken this year like many years both on flies and lures. This year we played a lot with BIG and little softies and single hooks and landed some wonderful fish. Last year we fished BIG flies with no retrieve, drifted with similar results - lure, circumstances, tactics?..

So a bit like this dead drifting softs about , but with the fly .

Top fish , and fishing Jim ,

and to put a guide on a double , RESPECT , sir . :drunk:

Lovely blog to , always enjoy it . :drunk:

 

Had a play on my new pop key caught a coulpe of schoolies good lure does alot for the price

 

Thanks Mark
I'm sure like myself you have some cherished moments from 2011 - in the 'Big fish' category this 83 cms fish landed by a very capable lady is one of mine - see the detail HERE

We ran a series of good fish in about one and a half days - big flatwings and big senkos (7") senkos

 

The only flaw I can see with your theory is that the mackerel are only "vibrating like mad" when they are hooked on your line - it is not their normal behaviour and it must be a very rare thing for a bass to witness.
If it were a known food source for them, then anglers feathering for mackerel would be getting hit by bass all the time.
In my experiance bass would sooner take the feathers - they are small fry immatitations afteral.
Ive caught a 4.6kg bass on a set of feathers with mackerel on the other hooks

I do agree with J11 & J13 are good lures though. Caught me several bass and pike too :thumbs:

Hi sharpshooter,

My experience of mackerel is that they create an obvious level of vibration when they swim, whether hooked, or not – I can still feel those vibrations when I have free-lined them and the line is actually slack(ish)! (I think you have slightly misread what I had written, “Upon hooking a mackerel, it is instantly identifiable by the strong, rhythmic vibrations that it sends down the line” was my reference to the fish whereas, “VIBRATE LIKE MAD” was referring to certain lures).

The fact is that fish do give off vibrations when they swim and their predators do pick up on these vibrations. How relevant these vibrations are to the actual act of predation, I do not know, but, what I can say is that there is an awful lot of effort made by lure manufacturers to incorporate ‘noise’ into their lures, through rattles, as a means of making them more attractive. As has been pointed out, by Graham Hill, this ‘attractiveness’ may not (always) be perceived as the case by the fish. I do differentiate between ‘rattles’ and ‘vibrations’, however, and the lures that I had identified were because of these vibrations.

Now, I do relate (sort of) to the point that you have made about anglers who are feathering. I myself have spent a significant amount of time feathering for mackerel, both as bait and for food, from a known bass haunt, Chesil Beach. Not once have I ever caught a bass on feathers, nor have I caught a bass that had taken a mackerel which had taken my feathers. I cannot recall a single instance of anybody catching a bass while feathering from Chesil (I am not saying it has never happened, you understand, just that I that I do not know of anybody who has achieved this ‘feat’).

So, what does this mean?

Personally speaking, I do not think that bass are likely to take feathers, as used from the shore, as a matter of course – otherwise they would be caught with a great deal of frequency from, say, Chesil and I am sure that I would have caught my share if this was the case. Bass do not chase individual whitebait, in my opinion, but charge into shoals of whitebait – and try and grab a mouthful! (Apologies, in advance, to all the fly fishers out there who disagree with this!).

Neither would I expect to catch a bass on a hooked mackerel. Bass nearly always take their prey sideways on (I have caught smaller fish on my lure’s tail trebles) missing any chance of being hooked and, as with most (all, I suspect) other piscatorial predators, like to turn their prey and swallow them head first. This takes time and would prove a little difficult, as well as feeling unnatural, if that prey is being dragged shoreward. I suppose, once in a while, that it is possible that a bass may prove determined and try very hard to hang on to one of those hooked mackerel. This could result in the mackerel being plucked from the hook or, if the hook point is exposed, the bass could even be landed (can you be sure that this did not happen in the case of your 4.6kgs fish with the mackerel being lost during the fight?).

In conclusion, I know that vibration is important and I think that it is likely that more vibration in a lure will prove more attractive to a bass. But, as already pointed out by Mr. Hill (again), “there is a lot more to this subject than anyone can imagine” and do we really want to know all of the answers? What would we talk about then – Poncey Anglers?

Cheers,

Kes.

 

A good post.

I dont really fish from the shore much these days and so cannot compare directly. However, IMO feathers are very effective at catching bass. I'm not saying they would be my first choice of lure should I be fishing for them (nowhere near it infact) - but, at times they outfish sidewinders, dexters etc
I believe it is a case of 'matching the hatch' - if the fish are chasing small fry, then they will take feathers readily.
7 bass on one string (20 hooks commercial handline) is the best ive had, I could see others following them to the boat.
Admitidly, they do tend to be small fish upto 2kg in weight, but better fish are not that rare either.
If i'm fishing for mackerel in a certain area it would be unusual for me not to see at least one bass a day. 14 fish was my best day last year.

I'm usually fishing 3+ miles from land, where mackerel and bass are chasing shoals of small baitfish, so any 2-3" lure that immitates a small fry is gonna work really (and usually does - they are not hard to catch)

The J-11 & J-13 have very exagerated actions that give off alot of noise through the water. This can help get a fishes attention; so they will atleast know it is there, but sometimes maybe something a little more subtle will get more actual takes ?

Ive caught several bass casting J's from the shore, but catch very few fish on them trolling; in fact a free lined redgill will knock the pants off it fished side-by-side (only in my experiance of course)

Hello again sharpshooter,

It’s most strange how your experience of bass fishing seems to have produced results by using the more (or should that be, the most?) ‘simple’ of approaches (no offence intended). This simplicity almost undermines the whole essence of this forum and its complexities, scrutinising, detail and contrived ideas that the rest of us spend our time discussing! Only joking!

You are right, of course, when you say that bass “are not hard to catch”; and they certainly are not hard to catch when they are feeding and you are sat directly above them! Fish that are feeding hard tend to forget their natural caution, even more so when they are shoaled up and in competition with their peers. Possibly, this might explain why feathers have been successful for you from a boat, at least. The point that you make about ‘matching the hatch’ I do understand and I have caught numbers of bass (and mullet), on both tiny flies and even smaller baits, on hook sizes as small as 14s or even 16s – you may be surprised at just how small the natural food source is that some fish will feed on! (Not tiddlers, I should add, but reasonable/decent size fish in the 2 to 8lbs range).

I can only speak of my own (and my friends’) experiences in relation to my findings – and feathers do not appear anywhere on my list of bass catching lures! However, I do tend to frequent shallow, rocky shorelines where finding shoaled baitfish is an extremely rare event. That said, others I know who do fish deeper waters regularly, where whitebait, sandeels and other baitfish do collect, would never consider feathers as an option, either!

I am not overly surprised by the different catch rates you have witnessed between the Rapala J series and the Redgill from a boat; the rubber eels are a brilliant imitation of the real thing and work wonderfully well as a fish catcher (Mike Ladle frequently uses a weighted version to score regular success around the Dorset shoreline). But there are a number of negatives: they don’t cast well (although they are better weighted), they sink (not good in shallow, weedy water) and they are totally un-involving to fish (imo). J11s and J13s are not the most realistic looking lures and I suspect that your trolling gives the bass a great opportunity to take a good look at these lures first because you are moving quite slowly and the water will likely be very clear. This is slightly different to fishing in 2 or 3 feet of water, in amongst weed and around rocks where the bass have little, or no, warning of the impending arrival of a meal! And don’t forget, the easiest way to entice a take on a lure is to retrieve it very quickly – try experimenting with trolling at twice the speed, perhaps, and see what you catch on the Rapala then!

I know that Rapala Slivers were very popular off Portland Race with the commercials – I think that they have only been replaced because of the cheap price of shads and not their effectiveness (although I am happy to be corrected on that point).

Getting back to the original target of this thread, BIG bass, I am afraid that I would simply haveto drop a livebait mackerel over the side of the boat that you are fishing from – stuff the feathers!

Cheers,

Kes.

 

Thanks for taking the time, everybody involved,keep going please i'm hooked on this thread..

 

ive caught bass on feathers from the shore , at worrborrow bay of all places , and on a few separate occasions as well .

Not big fish , but a good 15 fish over 4 times there , .

I know lots that catch them on feathers from a boat , including my mates JAMMY 8 pounder , few hundred yards of lyme harbour wall .

I know the bass boats, bag up on hookies type feathers , with a pirk on the bottom , big bass on pirk , loads on the hookies

I think boat is so different to shore mind .

In all my hrs plugging , i have never had a bass grab a mac off my lure
(and have left mac in the zone a long long time , just to see )
take it off stick a treble through its nose , cut the rear tail in half to slow it down , different story , gets nailed in under 20 mins , nearly every time .

I love the zonk , and it has one of the best vibes around

But would love mega bass to do a bigger one , i really feel bigger bass would be caught more easily .

If i were a big bass , i would not chase a small bait , unless there were loads and loads of it about .

Thats not always the case when we fish , soi like to give them a good meal .

Nearly 75 percent of my better fish were on long minnow type lures 175mm

Or a huge popper (saltiga )

or big shad , or the large sluggos

Yes big bass will eat small lures , ive had loads do it ,

but i have had way way mre on a good mouthfull

I think thats why eddie shckilft (spelling , sorry ed ) has had so many great big bass , because he loves the j13 , and knows where big bass are .
It a good mouth full , wonder if he would have caught even a 5th of his big fish , if he used the baby zonk , or baby pachinco , or baby this and that:2: :doh::2: nowadays

I dont think so.

Not a hope

 

Some fish taken on this mornings session on hard and soft lures - a silent Z-claw and a silent 7" senko worm - timings, circumstances, location and a little patience! - Thomas and Max close out HERE a challenging week in style.

 

I caught 3 bass 2.5lb each [in one go] on Lumi Shrimp feathers a few weeks ago, I've had dozens on feathers over the years from my boat

 

Some fish taken on this mornings session on hard and soft lures - a silent Z-claw and a silent 7" senko worm - timings, circumstances, location and a little patience! - Thomas and Max close out HERE a challenging week in style.

top class fishing jim nice fish
was that you fishing down the estuary yesterday morning !!:thumbs: