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Boat Buddies. Your opinions please

27K views 369 replies 46 participants last post by  Cascars 
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#1 ·
I have been asked to give my views on this matter as part of a magazine feature, which will publish all sides of the matter. There will also be views from a Charter Skipper and the MCA, and this could form the basis of discussions with the MCA to make the law / regulations clearer to understand for all.
Please keep this civil and do not use it to argue with, or insult someone who may have a different point of view, as I hope to get input from charter skippers, boat owners, and boat anglers who do not have their own boat but may go out with mates, on charters or with boat owners looking for crew for the day in exchange for a contribution towards fuel costs.

When I bought my latest boat over 6 years ago, I decided I would like to find guys that would be able to regularly accompany me for the day for both inshore and offshore trips, whenever I wanted to go. My personal circle of friends did not include enough anglers that were able to go when I wanted to go and I decided to ask the members of WSF if I occasionally needed one or two people to make up the crew for a trip.
There were several benefits.

1) Two or three other people on the boat meant that if I were to have an accident or health problem then there would be somebody able to get help or take the boat back in.

2) An average wrecking trip could easily cost me £100+ in fuel, and a couple of others contributing towards this would mean that I could possibly go out more often (although the British weather has put paid to that!). It would be rare that anyone coming out with me would even contribute an equal share with me of the fuel cost (it would usually be less), but any contribution would help. I have only ever been interested in a contribution towards the days running costs, and not the overall cost of running my boat. If that were case then every time anyone came out with me they would probably need to give me about £300! Each person would be responsible for providing their own bait or lures, although as anyone that has come fishing with me will testify I usually end up lending or giving quite a few of my own away.

3) It would introduce new people to boat fishing that probably would not want to go out on a charter for the first time for fear of showing themselves up, by either being ill or not having a clue what to do. With only 3 or 4 of us on the boat we could all help any newbie, and if someone was really ill then they could be taken back to shore without affecting ten or more others. Hopefully these new boat anglers would enjoy the experience so much that they would then become regular buddies that I could call on to help make up a crew at short notice. I can not remember a single person so far that has said that they never want to go boat fishing again, and most are now regulars on charter boats, so it seems to have worked!

4) Fishing on your own is not only dangerous but for most of us having one or two others to chat to makes the day far more enjoyable, as well the fact that sharing advice and methods helps to improve your own success rate.

5) Teaching others what I have learned from over 40 years of boat angling and boat handling would hopefully give them a better idea of whether they would have the skills needed to skipper their own boat, before just buying one and setting to sea with no experience. It is impossible to learn what you need to know in a day or two of classroom training and a few hours on a 'school' boat. I have also shown numerous other boat anglers who already have their own boats how I plot, and anchor wrecks and other marks safely and effectively. This improves their own experience and success.

Over the past six years although only probably averaging a dozen trips a year out on my own boat I have introduced many people to boat angling that had never done it before, hopefully helped quite a few existing boat owners to make their own fishing more productive, made dozens of new friends, raised a few thousand pounds for various charities (usually the RNLI), managed to find new PB's and firsts for almost everyone that has come out on Sea Mistress, and enjoyed myself immensely while doing so. The small amount contributed by those that have fished with me (usually £10-35) each has obviously helped with the fuel cost, but as anyone who has their own boat will know, that is a drop in the ocean compared to the true cost of owning the boat. I estimate that my boat has cost me personally around £700 per trip when storage, maintenance, electronics and the cost of buying it are taken into consideration.
18 Months ago I started the Boat Buddies thread on here so that all those that wanted to do something similar could do so. To date there have been around 100 boat owners that have made use of this, and although feedback is limited I hope that most have those have now found people that they can call friends that they fish with regularly. The fact that some of these will help towards the cost of the day financially or in other ways, maybe helping with maintenance, storage etc is irrelevant. The main thing is that these people will hopefully all be enjoying their boating more than ever now.
However I know that there are some people out there that are a danger to themselves, never mind others, and I would always urge anyone that has any reservations about crewing for someone with dubious boat handling skills, a poorly maintained boat or no safety equipment not to go with them. Anyone asking for payment that is clearly above what could be considered a contribution should also be ignored. There is no substitute for a properly qualified skipper, and coded boat, but I believe there is also a place for responsible boat owners to share their day with others for a little help with the costs.
Please discuss:thumbs:
 
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#2 ·
If one of you is driving to a football match you all chip in the fuel money, it's never asked for just accepted,where's the difference, are you supposed to say oh can't do that we all got to hire taxi's?
 
#4 ·
If I wanna go fishing I go regardless of whether I have a crew or not. It's nice to have company BUT its not that much of a biggy to me as my usual crew are all useless f*ckers anyway! . With regards to fuel/ contributions the way I look at it is I was going fishing anyway so not bothered about recieving a contribution. It's my boat and I am quite capable of running it on me Todd. If they insist then I take it but I NEVER ask.

I am always sceptical about taking new crew out for the 1st time tho as its my day off, and at the risk of sounding selfish, I ain't upto babysitting rookies. I work 12 hrs a day 6 days a week mostly so when I do get a day out I wanna fish myself. I ain't a charter so teaching and helping is not my job. I usually only take out new crew if I know they know what they are doing. Rob
 
#5 ·
whenever i go out on friends boats i always offer, some decline others accept as it helps on the day. same with my boat, i dont expect it but if it costs me £30 in fuel and £10 in bait and they offer me £20 sometimes i accept other times i dont.

i also fish on my boat alone alot, i enjoy it. but i also enjoy the banter fishing wih my mates. i think it depends on the boat really, i have a mate that owns a boat that costs 35 litres an hour to run, regulary a £150 a trip, i have no problem in contributing to fuel because i know its an expensive day out if he foots the bill himself.

i personally dont see any problem in contributing to fuel at all.
 
#6 ·
I think buddying is a good thing. If I crew on a friends boat, i would always offer a contribution as i would if a friend drove me to the match or if i used his kart on a track day.
I have one regular crew, who makes a contribution. He doesnt pay a set amount every trip, but every 4 or 5 trips, he will buy the fuel for the trip (£50-£100)
Others that come out with me generally offer (most, but not all) or get the bait, or bring lunch, or help me clean the boat or help with maintenance, but as Terry said, the amounts are very small and dont relate to the real cost of a trip out ( i get more use out of my boat than Terry, with around 40 trips a year, average cost about £250 a trip)
To date, i have not taken people i didnt know out (apart from two charity auction trips for our local independant rescue boat), but may do in the future as I fish alone on 1 in 4 trips and i would have a more enjoyable day out, and feel safer with company.
The money people may give me is not important to me and It does not subsidise my fishing.
 
#7 ·
I am a member of what is in my opinion a very good club named the Boston Pirates small boat angling club fishing mostly off the Lincolnshire coastline at Skegness. Not all members of the club are boat owners some of the personnel are classed as crewmen and as such they have their regular boats that they fish off however it is not set in stone who you fish with, if a boat owner has a place available and his regular crewman is not available then you take another crewman angler out with you.
In our club what arrangement you agree between each other before or during the trip is between yourselves but non of the crewmen expect to be taken out for free as a minimum the crew pay their corner of the days running costs fuel and bait etc but as far as boat maintenance, insurance, purchase of replacement equipment etc etc that is down to the owner.
No one forced any member to purchase a boat and no one but the owner has a say in how and when it is to be used.

Winkle:bones::bones::bones::
 
#8 ·
I'm glad you've posted this Terry.

No charter skipper has a problem with the law which is fair and correct. Without dissecting it line by line the essence is this:

You can take your mates or family out and they can chip in for the cost of the voyage.

And damn right in my opinion, the sea is one of the last freedoms we have!

There are two distinct grey areas though:

1. What is a reasonable contribution to the voyage?
2. What defines a friend?

These are the areas the MCA are being asked for clarification on.

So, to be clear, nobody is asking for a change in the law...... but it DOES need clarifying.

Verbally the MCA have confirmed to me that a friend is somebody "you know personally and have done for some time" and I doubt anyone would argue with that simple logic.

However, would an "advert" such as this realistically comply with the law?:

"I have a Quicksilver 640 Pilothouse based in Newhaven. I am often looking for crew for last minute trips weekdays and weekends. I have all safety equipment and usually spare rods and tackle for those that do now own their own. PM me a telephone number and your details and I will add you to my list of possible crew. "

"I have a Beneteau Antares 650HB sportsfisher based in Chatham Marina on the Medway, so handy for Kent and London.

The fishing starts just outside the Marina entrance where bass and sole are the targets at this time of year. The furthest we could reasonably go are the forts of the Thames Estuary. Here, the Summer targets are bass, hounds, roker and tope.

If we fish very local all I ask is that you supply the bait. Further afield and you will be paying your share if the fuel and we split the bait cost.

Ariel will fish 3 and 2 in great comfort. She has a fully enclosed wheelhouse with full standing headroom and her 115hp Suzuki 4 stroke will push her along at 28 kn or 18 kn cruising. She gets out into the Thames in 40 minutes or so but all this power costs in fuel and a trip to the forts will set you back 30 quid each if there are 3 of us.

I often have a place free, sometimes 2. If you are interested in coming out send me a pm."

My argument is that this activity is not taking "friends" fishing (unless you can argue that 60,000 plus WSF members who live in your laptop are friends to start with) :)
 
#9 ·
Owing to work commitments, I only have a 6-7 week window each year during summers when I can take my boat out. I have a friend and colleague who also takes 10 days off each year to fish.
We have an unwritten rule that we split the fuel 50:50, which works fine. I buy the 2-stroke myself. I run twin 115hp 2-strokes which are not the most economical. We usually take a minimum of 150 litres.
I wouldn't expect him, or anyone else, to contribute in anyway to the full economic cost of keeping the boat which is my choice.
I have also taken others out, but wouldn't dream of asking for a contribution. If offered, however, I would, depending on the amount of fuel burnt during the trip, accept a £20 max per passenger.
There are no charter operators where I live, so I am not depriving any skippers of a livelihood.
 
#10 ·
Nobody expects to have a free ride where friends etc are concerned.What is plainly wrong and skirting the law is the 'Private' advertising that go's on.
It normally go's something like this. 'I have space on my boat Thursday (or whatever day in question) for crew'.That is not taking friends out for the day,that is plainly an advert to charge someone to go fishing because the owner is looking to offset some of the costs for the day.It's wrong and it is illegal.
If people want to run a Charter boat,great I would willingly give any help and advice free.If you think running a Private boat is expensive,try running a coded boat with all the rules and regs that go with it.As others have said,if you cannot afford to run a boat without relying on the contribution of others,then get shot of it.
As I have said,this isn't aimed at people that fish with friends but aimed at the Blatant advertising on this and other forums of Pirate Operators.
 
G
#12 ·
I have my boat in a marina. Not been out for a year due to other factors. I have a few friends who come out with me, they bring bait, I bring boat and food. I'm going anyway so bait is handy.
 
#17 ·
Nobody expects to have a free ride where friends etc are concerned.What is plainly wrong and skirting the law is the 'Private' advertising that go's on.
It normally go's something like this. 'I have space on my boat Thursday (or whatever day in question) for crew'.That is not taking friends out for the day,that is plainly an advert to charge someone to go fishing because the owner is looking to offset some of the costs for the day.It's wrong and it is illegal.
If people want to run a Charter boat,great I would willingly give any help and advice free.If you think running a Private boat is expensive,try running a coded boat with all the rules and regs that go with it.As others have said,if you cannot afford to run a boat without relying on the contribution of others,then get shot of it.
As I have said,this isn't aimed at people that fish with friends but aimed at the Blatant advertising on this and other forums of Pirate Operators.
If anyone's interested I'm looking for crew to go marlin fishing next weekend on the jolly roger out of newhaven .
£90 a head bait extra !!!!
 
#18 ·
Surely it is coming to a damn sad state of affairs when we have to have a concise definition of the term "friend" forced upon us??? Likewise what is a "reasonable contribution"

I'd guess that most of us who have bought boats and can afford to run them have a modicum of common sense or we wouldn't have been able to afford to buy them in the first place.

We have been subjected to a massive attack on our freedom of choice and now live in a nanny state that is ludicrous to say the least. I'd personally not want to see the legislation relating to this tightened in any way, it is perfectly adequate as it stands.
 
#19 ·
Surely it is coming to a damn sad state of affairs when we have to have a concise definition of the term "friend" forced upon us??? Likewise what is a "reasonable contribution"

I'd guess that most of us who have bought boats and can afford to run them have a modicum of common sense or we wouldn't have been able to afford to buy them in the first place.

We have been subjected to a massive attack on our freedom of choice and now live in a nanny state that is ludicrous to say the least. I'd personally not want to see the legislation relating to this tightened in any way, it is perfectly adequate as it stands.
Your opinion is one of a few I respect on here, you seem to just get out there fishing and enjoy it, and fair play. Nobody is asking for legislation to be tightened as it caters for all and affords us one of the last freedoms at sea.

Equally, I don't see you "advertising" spaces on your boat......
 
#20 ·
Your opinion is one of a few I respect on here, you seem to just get out there fishing and enjoy it, and fair play. Nobody is asking for legislation to be tightened as it caters for all and affords us one of the last freedoms at sea.

Equally, I don't see you "advertising" spaces on your boat......
I guess I could be accused of "advertising" if using the terms Ronaldo referred to, if planning a trip I will often mention it and ask on the forum if anybody fancies joining me. In reality surprisingly few ever reply which isn't a problem, I've enjoyed the company of those who have but I really don't see doing that as unreasonable.

Perhaps some who would otherwise never go out boat fishing are likelier to go out for the first time on a private boat owned by a regular forum contributor whose views they concur with? That same person if once "hooked" on boat fishing may well become a charter boat customer?

It is surely nothing more than common courtesy to offer a contribution when on somebody else's private boat, if the owner chooses to accept that is their choice.

This forum has enabled me to meet quite a few fellow boat owners and I now consider many of them as friends.
 
#21 ·
I guess I could be accused of "advertising" if using the terms Ronaldo referred to, if planning a trip I will often mention it and ask on the forum if anybody fancies joining me. In reality surprisingly few ever reply which isn't a problem, I've enjoyed the company of those who have but I really don't see doing that as unreasonable.

It is surely nothing more than common courtesy to offer a contribution when on somebody else's private boat, if the owner chooses to accept that is their choice.

This forum has enabled me to meet quite a few fellow boat owners and I now consider many of them as friends.
I quite agree and like I say, you are somebody I respect.

Equally there are others that seem to "tout for business" cos they cant afford to run their boats without such "support".............
 
G
#22 ·
I have my own boat, i have fished with one person regulary since the day i bought it, they have never given me a penny, nor supplied bait, nor food.

What he has done is help me get the boat upto scratch, new deck, painting, anti fouling, weld the trailer, new bearings, brakes, change tyres etc etc etc, worth its wieght in gold to me when time is limited and i have a million jobs to do !

Since the boat buddies started, my regular man has been taken with ill health, he still wants to go, and occasionally will, but more often than not he aint upto it.

So, with this in mind, i posted on boat buddies, now its clear some of you think this is advertising, i dont agree.

My reasons were not for fuel money, or in fact any contribution at all, no money, bait or fuel, i dont care about that, keep your money, my boat is paid, as my moorings and insurance are, i worked hard and used my own money because i wanted too, i wanted the boat for myself so i got it.

What i wanted was someone to share it with, learn from them hopefully as my sea fishing has been limited to beach and charters before this boat, and i am not local to my mooring so still finding my feet with the area, someone local would maybe have knowledge that would help me, that is worth more than gold to me, knowledge is everything, i have had a few replies, one in particular, we have chatted loads, shared some stuff, and have a general good chat about fishing in general, still yet to get out due to this poxy weather, but one day it will happen and i am looking forward to it, i respect his angling, and hope i can put him on some fish and we have a good day out and some banter and fish !

I dont think any private boat owner is trying to make money out of this, and been a fishing forum whats wrong with saying, "i am out on thursday if anyone wants to join me" so f**ing what if they aint a friend, they usually are at the end of the day and its not like you said " i am out on thursday if someone wants to give me 50 quid for a trip out"
I think too much is been read into all this, for f**ks sake cant we just get out fishing and enjoy our hobby, and if we meet new people and make friends along the way then thats a bonus surely.

Rob.
 
G
#23 ·
I'm glad you've posted this Terry.

No charter skipper has a problem with the law which is fair and correct. Without dissecting it line by line the essence is this:

You can take your mates or family out and they can chip in for the cost of the voyage.

And damn right in my opinion, the sea is one of the last freedoms we have!

There are two distinct grey areas though:

1. What is a reasonable contribution to the voyage?
2. What defines a friend?

These are the areas the MCA are being asked for clarification on.

So, to be clear, nobody is asking for a change in the law...... but it DOES need clarifying.

Verbally the MCA have confirmed to me that a friend is somebody "you know personally and have done for some time" and I doubt anyone would argue with that simple logic.

However, would an "advert" such as this realistically comply with the law?:

"I have a Quicksilver 640 Pilothouse based in Newhaven. I am often looking for crew for last minute trips weekdays and weekends. I have all safety equipment and usually spare rods and tackle for those that do now own their own. PM me a telephone number and your details and I will add you to my list of possible crew. "

"I have a Beneteau Antares 650HB sportsfisher based in Chatham Marina on the Medway, so handy for Kent and London.

The fishing starts just outside the Marina entrance where bass and sole are the targets at this time of year. The furthest we could reasonably go are the forts of the Thames Estuary. Here, the Summer targets are bass, hounds, roker and tope.

If we fish very local all I ask is that you supply the bait. Further afield and you will be paying your share if the fuel and we split the bait cost.

Ariel will fish 3 and 2 in great comfort. She has a fully enclosed wheelhouse with full standing headroom and her 115hp Suzuki 4 stroke will push her along at 28 kn or 18 kn cruising. She gets out into the Thames in 40 minutes or so but all this power costs in fuel and a trip to the forts will set you back 30 quid each if there are 3 of us.

I often have a place free, sometimes 2. If you are interested in coming out send me a pm."

My argument is that this activity is not taking "friends" fishing (unless you can argue that 60,000 plus WSF members who live in your laptop are friends to start with) :)
Is this the The Merchant Shipping (Vessels in Commercial Use for Sport or Pleasure) Regulations 1998?
 
#24 ·
I dont think any private boat owner is trying to make money out of this, and been a fishing forum whats wrong with saying, "i am out on thursday if anyone wants to join me" so f**ing what if they aint a friend, they usually are at the end of the day and its not like you said "
Rob.
Rob, I hear you and most are not doing anything wrong, but I picked out this bit above, cos it's illegal !!
 
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