[cloutie]

having a real bad day here - testing out my braid for a trip to Madagascar. Brand new JB solid 65lb breaking at only 40lb repeatedly - bimini loop to scales, other end wrapped around a stick, breaking 50cm from the knot. Berkley prospec 50 breaking at 20-30lb. JB should be doing 80 ish
suffix 90 going at 60, cant see how my testing procedure is at fault (new electronic scales checked against spring scales, correlation within 10% so unless both out). Any barid experts out there ?

 

[JonD]

Ive seen testing machines where its two what I can only describe as rolling pins, where the braid is wrapped several times around these rollers and forced apart by a calibrated scale machine.
When I first starting using braid while still living in the UK I used bimini joins and did find the braid seemed to break bellow its rating. Now I use pr knots and find the braid tends to break above its rating.

How about joining all of those braids to something like 100lb mono with an fg and then use a loop in the mono to the scales. Im thinking its most likely more to do with your testing given all are breaking bellow.

Have you tested the scales with a known weight, something you know the exact weight to be true with. You could have two sets that are out, calibrated scales tend to be very expensive, my 30lb set were $400.

 

[Rob K]

I would say your testing results are unfortunately spot-on and very similar to my own.

I find braid breaks at around or a tad over double the equivelent diameter of mono breaking strain:

60lb braid of 0.36mm diameter is roughly the same diameter as 15-18lb mono.
Taking the upper figure of 18lb and multiply by 2 gives around 36lb breaking strain.

The manufacturers seem to be wildly optimistic with their BS claims.

 

[Rob K]

JonD, great idea with the FG's to heavy mono by the way.

 

[cloutie]

thanks for the suggestion Jon, that is achievable - twin rolling pins sound more challenging
but I do find it interesting that the break is always at the same point around 18 inch from the bimini - I wondered about transferrence of pressure with it buidling up at a certain point - but I would then expect different braids to have different reactions as all are not physically the same.
with the JB I can feel that I am exerting little pressure - I should be busting a gut to break it

 

[cloutie]

my first foray into 'braid' was spider wire where I could take on virtually anything on 12lg B/S - and the line retains its strength 20 years on!
only downfall was the stiffness - but tough as old boots and now gone out of fashion in favour of 'super-braids'

 

[cloutie]

FG no different - just breaks in a different place. 12 year old JB breaking above stated test!

 

[Helpmaboab]

Strange goings on! Out of interest when you say JB do you mean J Braid (by Daiwa, commonly available in the UK) or Jerry Brown (very uncommon in the UK)? Apart from the potential of issues with your scales and/or testing procedures, is there a chance you've unwittingly bought fake lines, or that these lines are damaged ? Have you checked all line rollers, rod rings etc for issues?

 

[JonD]

thanks for the suggestion Jon, that is achievable - twin rolling pins sound more challenging
but I do find it interesting that the break is always at the same point around 18 inch from the bimini - I wondered about transferrence of pressure with it buidling up at a certain point - but I would then expect different braids to have different reactions as all are not physically the same.
with the JB I can feel that I am exerting little pressure - I should be busting a gut to break it

Yes agree and if its Jerry Brown not J braid I can't break 40lb in a pull test and that's with line about 8yr old.

You might find this video interesting. braid line tests

 

[cloutie]

Yes Jerry brown bought from peaches extreme so
should be kosher
in the just Paulus days 65 jerry brown was over 100 test
this snaps on a weak pull
wrapped around a stick one end, fg to 200 mono and the scales

 

[cloutie]

Predictive text! Peche extreme

 

[cloutie]

Yes agree and if its Jerry Brown not J braid I can't break 40lb in a pull test and that's with line about 8yr old.

You might find this video interesting. braid line tests

Thanks jonD
very interesting but alarming that all the 20s over tested yet mine are undertesting
i wonder if makers are now relabelling what might have been 30 braid as 50?

 

[Norm B]

I would say your testing results are unfortunately spot-on and very similar to my own.

I find braid breaks at around or a tad over double the equivelent diameter of mono breaking strain:

60lb braid of 0.36mm diameter is roughly the same diameter as 15-18lb mono.
Taking the upper figure of 18lb and multiply by 2 gives around 36lb breaking strain.

The manufacturers seem to be wildly optimistic with their BS claims.

About 20 or more years ago when I had and edited the SAN I often had spools of braid sent to me to review. At the same time I tested their BS and found it to be approximately 30-50% over the stated strength. I questioned this with a couple of the better known producers of the braid and their response was almost unanimous. We under state the BS as anglers are notorious for using rubbish knots, not the knots we recommend so we allow for their bad knots by understating the BS so as they don't complain about OUR poor breaking strains. Now we know, it's our fault.

 

[JonD]

Some braids I buy are very thin in comparison to so called same strength braids. The old Jerry Brown 40lb is most defiantly thicker than the 56lb Shimano ocea I tend to use on my boat reels for targeting tuna and marlin. I would most defiantly say the 40lb is under rated and the 56lb would be far closer to its rating. I personally think Shimano have done this in mind with the fact that most people who spend more money on ocea will be the kind of anglers who do joins such as pr of fg knots.

What also needs to be considered is the fact most reels struggle with drag settings over 25kg and most anglers will rarely use more than 10kg of drag, so braids that break at 40-50lb will rarely break on fish. Reel ratings are like braid ratings, take them with a pinch of salt!!!

I use a fair amount of sufix131 20lb which I'm sure is closer to 40lb as Ive locked up on some hefty fish and sharks and not been able to break it using fishing reel drag. The 131 20lb looks to be every bit as thick as Shimano ocea 56lb.

Back to the original post though, these results do seem very odd. I wonder if you could find somewhere that does the calibrated testing like Paulus fishing used to do, there would have to be plenty of places in the UK with such equipment I would of thought. Who ever does IGFA line fish capture ratings would be able to do it.

Update, just found a test using 131 which confirms its well overrated, certainly no need for me to buy over 20lb for most of my fishing. sufix 131 true breaking strength

 

[MrE]

Don’t know about you guys, but in my experiance I have a hell of a problem pulling out of snags. I’m using 40lb PP (.28) with 80lb flouro leader (FG knot) OK so it’s not so subtle, but it does it’s job… and more.

several times I have been snagged on reefs through fish dragging me in or by bottom fishing off a Hobie Cat and I have had to have the skipper! Return to the snag area as it will not break. Can almost drag the Hobie to the snag and had to use A PE tool wrapped several times to break free from the snag. In 90% of instances I have broke off at the PE tool or close and other times the clip knot at the lure has broke. Sure that was more than 40lb break and not so sure many fish of 40 or more would have pulled hard enough to a break.

 

[cloutie]

thanks JonD, tried same with a japanese 80lb today, got 28kg first pull thereafter consistently 18-20kg using new piece of line each time. With 100lb momoi diamond we couldnt bust it but only got to 38kg.
I very much take your point re drag settings - I have always fished light, but with deep drop swords and monster doggies on the cards I want something I can give a bit of welly to. Coz of my knackered wrists I will use my black magic which will permit me to exert serious drag if needs be - but even then my knees go wobbly at 15kg continuous drag standup. I'll look into the suffix.and see what i can find re formal break testing.

 

[cloutie]

and just found this - seems like i'm not alone with some brands undertesting by 40%

Diameter | Advice Centre | Ultima UK Fishing Line

Ultima UK is the leading fishing line manufacturer producing high performance lines for carp fishing, match fishing, sea fishing and game fishing. The lines are produced in monofilament, fluorocarbon and braid.

www.ultimauk.com

 

[JonD]

and just found this - seems like i'm not alone with some brands undertesting by 40%

Diameter | Advice Centre | Ultima UK Fishing Line

Ultima UK is the leading fishing line manufacturer producing high performance lines for carp fishing, match fishing, sea fishing and game fishing. The lines are produced in monofilament, fluorocarbon and braid.

www.ultimauk.com

Thats interesting as I've had many discussions on here where UK members on this forum who believe they have the most accurately labeled braids and its the rest of the world that have it all wrong!!!!!....looks like the UK is well and truly part of the big mess when it comes to braided line.

What can be a pain is when you go by the reel manufacturer that claims say a reel might take 300m of 20lb and you then find it can only hold just over 200m or perhaps it could of taken 400m.

In regards to broadbill, what tackle will you be using ? Here in daylight they tend to be deep at 750m or more but come up high near the surface at night targeting squid. We use tiagra 50w or bigger reels with 65lb braid which have landed numerous fish of 300kg+. Most people use power pro as its the cheapest to buy in 3000m spools, we also use an electric drill attachment that fits the tiagra handle to wind up tackle without fish attached.

Look forward to see how you go over there.

 

[Helpmaboab]

The Ultima info relates to nylon monofilament. The thing with all lines including braid is extracting TRUE information from manufacturers - damn near impossible if you ask me! This is further complicated by many braids not being truly round in cross section. It's a bloody minefield that's for sure

 

[cloutie]

yeap planning on trying 1800ft by day, maybe trolling in evening - depends what we find re tides (and weather) as is an unknown there as far as I know. My research said 65lb was the best compromise between diameter and strength- which is why i got the jB 65 and was then disappointed when it snaps like cotton. I have a banax electric reel and also have the drill/attachment.It'll be fun trying whatever and something a little different.