braid - uptiding
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TomBettle
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I know I will be shouted down here, but I much prefer traditional mono for uptiding as you use the diameter of the line to catch in the tide and pull your grip lead into the sea bed.
If you use braid, you'll have much less diameter and therefore much less pull on the grip lead, potentially either sending it bouncing downtide or simply not providing the tell tale bend in the rod tip to help show a bite.
Personally, stick with mono for uptiding.
Always use braid downtide.
Tom
If you use braid, you'll have much less diameter and therefore much less pull on the grip lead, potentially either sending it bouncing downtide or simply not providing the tell tale bend in the rod tip to help show a bite.
Personally, stick with mono for uptiding.
Always use braid downtide.
Tom
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yes and yes. Though you can drop the mainline down to about 15lb uner many circumstances (and if the sea bed is not particularly abrasive)
(you can use braid for uptiding, but it is only worth doing IMO in depths of more than -say- 80 feet and very strong tides ; its biggest disadvantage is that you have to be quite "soft handed" pumping the fish to avoid pulling the hooks out or snapping a trace/the mainline its next biggest disadvantage is that you see the bite "too early" ; the advantage is the feel - you can feel every head-shake and fart while playing the fish....and that is fun)
(you can use braid for uptiding, but it is only worth doing IMO in depths of more than -say- 80 feet and very strong tides ; its biggest disadvantage is that you have to be quite "soft handed" pumping the fish to avoid pulling the hooks out or snapping a trace/the mainline its next biggest disadvantage is that you see the bite "too early" ; the advantage is the feel - you can feel every head-shake and fart while playing the fish....and that is fun)
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TomBettle
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Everyone has a favourite breaking strain, but I used to use 15lb mainline and a 40lb or 50lb leader which was fine for my poor impression of an uptide cast.
Others prefer 18lb or 20lb.
I am not too keen on using something like 35lb straight through (there is much debate about this andnot necesasary now) other than that if it is very weedy you don't get weed on your leader knot.
Others prefer 18lb or 20lb.
I am not too keen on using something like 35lb straight through (there is much debate about this andnot necesasary now) other than that if it is very weedy you don't get weed on your leader knot.
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Used it liked it. Plenty of pull to set the lead. Bite detection is far superior. Didn't bother with leader due to possibility of weed on leader knot. Regards bumping fish off etc, it's obviously exactly the same with braid when downtiding so you'll either use braid or not whether up or down.
This said mono is fine as it is in most circumstances. Give braid a try and make your own mind up.
This said mono is fine as it is in most circumstances. Give braid a try and make your own mind up.
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Mono much,much better for uptiding .You need the larger diameter mono to catch the tide and set the grip lead in. Braid beds into itself under pressure and is then a nightmare to cast with and play fish on. When your uptiding the bow of line is constantly rubbing over the sea bed and braid not very abrasion proof so could fray. No give in braid so when the boat moves in rough seas you would be broken out all the time
Seen a few big Hounds and Roker lost on Braid too.
Braid excellant for deep 100' plus downting though!
Never fished with a charter skipper in Thames or Blackwater who would recommend braid for uptiding
Seen a few big Hounds and Roker lost on Braid too.
Braid excellant for deep 100' plus downting though!
Never fished with a charter skipper in Thames or Blackwater who would recommend braid for uptiding
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This is worth a read, it's by Dave Godwin who chartered down the Thames estuary way. For a bit more abrasion resistance and drag, try upping to 50lb power pro or the likes if you think you need it. I don't think it's in this piece but in another he said he'd just sacrifice a yard or so of braid after each trip if there was any abrasion. I don't know your local conditions so can't comment too much. I've conolon 4-10 uptiders which have got a good through action, the 4-8 is too tippy. It's swings and roundabouts, I wouldn't write it off, try it and see, but think about what you want from it.
Lighten Up Guy's
by Dave Godwin
Light rods can add a new dimension to sea fishing.
A couple of years ago I started using braid as a main line for uptiding despite being told that you could not cast with braid.
I started with a hundred yard spool of Spiderwire 20lb breaking strain, which I loaded on top of some mono on my Abu 6500; this was used with Daiwa carbon whisker 2-8oz uptider.
Immediately the difference was unbelievable. The feel of the seabed, the bite detection, it was all a new experience!
There were a few drawbacks but they were worth putting up with.
Firstly I had to ease the clutch off a bit and I found the ideal setting was that I had to thumb the spool to pump a fish. This setting was needed so as not to bump a fish off the line as there is no give whatsoever. It is far easier to release your thumb from the spool when a fish dives than to try to adjust the clutch.
Braid also tends to dig in when you have played a fish into the boat and you have to be careful of this when you next cast or you end up with a birds nest.
One of the not so obvious benefits is the reduced diameter of braid. The 20lb Spiderwire is the equivalent diameter of 6lb mono, and this meant that I could fish with lighter weights.
2oz Gemini weights
I slowly got used to the lighter weights and started to experiment even further and ended up trying lighter rods starting off with a 8 foot Ugly Stik spinning rod that is able to cast 40 grams. Using the Abu 6500 with the braid the fishing was brilliant catching species like eels, bass, dogfish, flatfish and whiting.
Recently, my local tackle shop showed me a new range of Ron Thompson “Steel Head” rods and I immediately purchased an 8 foot 40 gram rod for the boat. This was more of a through action rod and was not quite so “tippy.” These are exceptional value as they are only £31.99 at my local shop.
This last week I took the shop manager out on a trip and he brought along a lighter version still, this was a 7 foot 22 gram baitcasting rod. He loaded it with small Penn International baitcasting reel which was loaded with 8lb braid which is the equivalent diameter of 2lbs mono. I was very apprehensive about this set up as we had a 6.2 metre tide that day just about the biggest of the year!
The Penn International baitcaster.
We found that this set up was quite capable of casting a two ounce lead and I dug out an old two ounce breakaway which are no longer made. We took it in turns with this rod and landed quite a few whiting to about a pound and a half without testing the rod at all and we both want to try it for bass and smoothounds for a real test.
I am now absolutely converted to this type of tackle and would recommend all of you to try it out as it seems to be catching on fast and a lot of my friends and customers are switching over to it.
Lighten Up Guy's
by Dave Godwin
Light rods can add a new dimension to sea fishing.
A couple of years ago I started using braid as a main line for uptiding despite being told that you could not cast with braid.
I started with a hundred yard spool of Spiderwire 20lb breaking strain, which I loaded on top of some mono on my Abu 6500; this was used with Daiwa carbon whisker 2-8oz uptider.
Immediately the difference was unbelievable. The feel of the seabed, the bite detection, it was all a new experience!
There were a few drawbacks but they were worth putting up with.
Firstly I had to ease the clutch off a bit and I found the ideal setting was that I had to thumb the spool to pump a fish. This setting was needed so as not to bump a fish off the line as there is no give whatsoever. It is far easier to release your thumb from the spool when a fish dives than to try to adjust the clutch.
Braid also tends to dig in when you have played a fish into the boat and you have to be careful of this when you next cast or you end up with a birds nest.
One of the not so obvious benefits is the reduced diameter of braid. The 20lb Spiderwire is the equivalent diameter of 6lb mono, and this meant that I could fish with lighter weights.
2oz Gemini weights
I slowly got used to the lighter weights and started to experiment even further and ended up trying lighter rods starting off with a 8 foot Ugly Stik spinning rod that is able to cast 40 grams. Using the Abu 6500 with the braid the fishing was brilliant catching species like eels, bass, dogfish, flatfish and whiting.
Recently, my local tackle shop showed me a new range of Ron Thompson “Steel Head” rods and I immediately purchased an 8 foot 40 gram rod for the boat. This was more of a through action rod and was not quite so “tippy.” These are exceptional value as they are only £31.99 at my local shop.
This last week I took the shop manager out on a trip and he brought along a lighter version still, this was a 7 foot 22 gram baitcasting rod. He loaded it with small Penn International baitcasting reel which was loaded with 8lb braid which is the equivalent diameter of 2lbs mono. I was very apprehensive about this set up as we had a 6.2 metre tide that day just about the biggest of the year!
The Penn International baitcaster.
We found that this set up was quite capable of casting a two ounce lead and I dug out an old two ounce breakaway which are no longer made. We took it in turns with this rod and landed quite a few whiting to about a pound and a half without testing the rod at all and we both want to try it for bass and smoothounds for a real test.
I am now absolutely converted to this type of tackle and would recommend all of you to try it out as it seems to be catching on fast and a lot of my friends and customers are switching over to it.
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Here it is, the other one.
Uptiding with braid
by Dave Godwin
I run a charter boat in the Thames estuary and in the course of my working week fish more times a week than most. I have been using braid for over three years now and have come to a number of conclusions from my experiences.
Firstly, I have only used one make of braid and that is Spiderwire in 20lb breaking strain. This is the same diameter as 6lb monofilament. With the reduced diameter I find that I can fish most of our tides with a 3oz wired lead a Gemini or breakaway. I also use a Team Daiwa 2-8oz uptider that is very sensitive and forgiving in the tip.
You must be a very competent caster to use a multiplier reel with braid as a main line and I have not tried a fixed spool reel with braid except as a marker rod for carp fishing.
I always fish with the braid right through to the swivel (no shockleader) as I think this defeats the object as you lose some of the sensitivity, but you have adapt your technique when playing the fish. This is against the run of popular opinion, which says that you should have a length of monofilament as a shockleader.
As I mainly use the uptiding method there is no need to strike the fish, which must be done with care if you decide to strike when using braid. I keep the clutch set very light on my reel (ABU 6500c) to the extent that I have to thumb the spool when pumping the fish and as yet I have not lost a fish (due to the braid) with this method in the three years I have used braid.
Unfortunately, there are drawbacks with the methods I have described. I find that the braid gets scuffed up on the sea bed so I have to cut a bit (1-2 feet) off after every trip. Also I have found that the braid can dig in when you have pumped a large fish in, so I either pull some braid off the reel and rewind it back on. Alternatively, give it a gentle cast out and rewind it before I bait up, failure to do either of these results in a bird's nest.
You do not want a bird's nest when fishing with braid because you cannot untangle it and you have to cut it out, which is very expensive. For the last three years, I have used one 110-yard spool of braid per year which I wound on top of the existing monofilament on my reel.
Please remember that you cannot use all your usual knots with braid. Stick to the palomar and grinner knots for safety, but you can use a lighter rod and weight than you are used to and you'll be amazed at the difference.
I do not think braid would be suitable for beach fishing unless you were using a fixed spool reel, but I have no experience of this.
Uptiding with braid
by Dave Godwin
I run a charter boat in the Thames estuary and in the course of my working week fish more times a week than most. I have been using braid for over three years now and have come to a number of conclusions from my experiences.
Firstly, I have only used one make of braid and that is Spiderwire in 20lb breaking strain. This is the same diameter as 6lb monofilament. With the reduced diameter I find that I can fish most of our tides with a 3oz wired lead a Gemini or breakaway. I also use a Team Daiwa 2-8oz uptider that is very sensitive and forgiving in the tip.
You must be a very competent caster to use a multiplier reel with braid as a main line and I have not tried a fixed spool reel with braid except as a marker rod for carp fishing.
I always fish with the braid right through to the swivel (no shockleader) as I think this defeats the object as you lose some of the sensitivity, but you have adapt your technique when playing the fish. This is against the run of popular opinion, which says that you should have a length of monofilament as a shockleader.
As I mainly use the uptiding method there is no need to strike the fish, which must be done with care if you decide to strike when using braid. I keep the clutch set very light on my reel (ABU 6500c) to the extent that I have to thumb the spool when pumping the fish and as yet I have not lost a fish (due to the braid) with this method in the three years I have used braid.
Unfortunately, there are drawbacks with the methods I have described. I find that the braid gets scuffed up on the sea bed so I have to cut a bit (1-2 feet) off after every trip. Also I have found that the braid can dig in when you have pumped a large fish in, so I either pull some braid off the reel and rewind it back on. Alternatively, give it a gentle cast out and rewind it before I bait up, failure to do either of these results in a bird's nest.
You do not want a bird's nest when fishing with braid because you cannot untangle it and you have to cut it out, which is very expensive. For the last three years, I have used one 110-yard spool of braid per year which I wound on top of the existing monofilament on my reel.
Please remember that you cannot use all your usual knots with braid. Stick to the palomar and grinner knots for safety, but you can use a lighter rod and weight than you are used to and you'll be amazed at the difference.
I do not think braid would be suitable for beach fishing unless you were using a fixed spool reel, but I have no experience of this.
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Well as mentioned prior it’s each too their own, but as a rule I like to use braid if there is a decent tidal run, then braid comes into its own. With regards to leaders, I personally do not use a leader if the ground I'm fishing is sandy. There have been articles written about the benefit of attaching a mono leader with regards to attaining some initial shock absorption due to the lack of stretch when using braid plus the benefit that mono offers with regards to abrasion resistance. But as stated if I am fishing over known sandy ground I have never had problems with braid parting over clean ground. The benefit not using mono as a leader and going straight though with braid is that you can judge what type of fish is actually having a go at your bait by the type of bite that you're getting and judge the best time when to reel in. If the ground is rough then a leader is a necessity, braid has very poor abrasion resistance.
I personaly think braid is of little use uptiding, I see people using it but in a bit of a swell the movement of the boat seems to trip the lead out, so it ends up swinging in the tide.
The biggest mistake people make when uptiding is not letting out enough line, with a large bow of line you can hold in most tides at 80'+ deep with 8oz of lead, with good old mono.
JonC
The biggest mistake people make when uptiding is not letting out enough line, with a large bow of line you can hold in most tides at 80'+ deep with 8oz of lead, with good old mono.
JonC
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Why anyone wants to use braid for uptiding is beyond me! No stretch to it and the lead will as others say will just keep pulling out.15-20lb Mono is just fine thanks.As for a leader uptiding unless you need it as a say a rubber for Tope fishing then why would you need a leader too? If you cannot cast uptide without having a snap up then I really wouldn't bother casting at all.
Ron
Ron
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112 Posts
We use 15 to 25 lb mono line when up tiding without any problems .We also tried braid but found that we could not get a big enough boom out in the braid quick enough to hold the leads .
I dont like the idea of people using shock leaders when uptiding when aboard my boat as i would rather anybody having a bad cast or leaving the brakes on , they snap off and the lead goes clear of my boat and the people aboard .
Iam more worried about the safety issue than my be loosing fish.
Regards Norse
I dont like the idea of people using shock leaders when uptiding when aboard my boat as i would rather anybody having a bad cast or leaving the brakes on , they snap off and the lead goes clear of my boat and the people aboard .
Iam more worried about the safety issue than my be loosing fish.
Regards Norse
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308 Posts
Never had a problem with the lead breaking away whilst using Braid ... there are pro and cons as with most things, and yep, at times mono is the better choice but on occasions braid can be the better choice.
With braid you can notice the bites far better and when fishing for small species braid certainly has the upper hand. Plus the feel you get especially when using braid with lighter gear is far more sensitive and the lighter lead needed matches the all round light set up and help stop unbalancing the outfit.
Ideally its better to try both lines out, find which one suits your needs best and taking it from there, probably its going to be both line type with a shrewd decision as and when needed. Whilst I think braid is fine at times it might not be for someone thats fishing a totally different technique and fishes a couple of hundred miles from where I normally fish, different seabed/techniques etc, though the same can be said about mono!
Its a suck it and see thing, no one person has the definitive answer, I would never use braid if mono was the better choice at the time and vice versa.
With braid you can notice the bites far better and when fishing for small species braid certainly has the upper hand. Plus the feel you get especially when using braid with lighter gear is far more sensitive and the lighter lead needed matches the all round light set up and help stop unbalancing the outfit.
Ideally its better to try both lines out, find which one suits your needs best and taking it from there, probably its going to be both line type with a shrewd decision as and when needed. Whilst I think braid is fine at times it might not be for someone thats fishing a totally different technique and fishes a couple of hundred miles from where I normally fish, different seabed/techniques etc, though the same can be said about mono!
Its a suck it and see thing, no one person has the definitive answer, I would never use braid if mono was the better choice at the time and vice versa.
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100 per cent agree --keep it simple as you can!
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