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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Could anyone help me, i have skippered boats before with friends so i am failry used to the laws of the sea, however i am booking myself on relevent course to obtain certificate. This part of the process is not a problem.
I have a friend who i will take with me to inspect the boat, as he is a marine boat builder and will be able to tell me if the boat is in good condition including the engine.
The crux of the problem is one of ownership, how do i know im not buying a stolen boat, is there a log book like a car etc etc. What do i need to make sure of.
Frostman
 

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Could anyone help me, i have skippered boats before with friends so i am failry used to the laws of the sea, however i am booking myself on relevent course to obtain certificate. This part of the process is not a problem.
I have a friend who i will take with me to inspect the boat, as he is a marine boat builder and will be able to tell me if the boat is in good condition including the engine.
The crux of the problem is one of ownership, how do i know im not buying a stolen boat, is there a log book like a car etc etc. What do i need to make sure of.
Frostman
Hi,
Be sure to ask for a recent survey, this if done properly will list any problems, and if the owner has one he is unlikely to have stolen the boat.
One other thing to look out for is outstanding finance, as most marine mortgages are secured against the boat, if you buy with money owing you can end up having to pay that as well.
There must be a register to check both somewhere, I'm sure someone on here will know.
Gary
 

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Could anyone help me, i have skippered boats before with friends so i am failry used to the laws of the sea, however i am booking myself on relevent course to obtain certificate. This part of the process is not a problem.


Hi my partners dad is intredted in buying a boat for fishing from, he seems to think it will be a doddle, can anyoner confirm what you need in the way of certificates etc as mentioned above please ?
 
G

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Hi GUys

It does kind of depend on who you are buying from and how much you are paying.
Private sales very rarely provide the correct paperwork and title documentation (this becomes a nightmare for us dealers to trace the paper trail) and on some cheaper boats (throw away money - amount depends on what you decide is throw away money - boats) people simply don't bother.

In essence it is NOT good enough to simply provide a hand written receipt saying "Sold as seen".
A seller needs to prove "chain of title" to a boat. Chain of title simply means the record of owners of the boat previously.
If you are buying a boat I would suggest at least 5 years chain of title, ideally full chain of title from new.
If you don't bother getting proof of the chain of title then you are simply asking for problems and cuold be buying a stolen boat or an otherwise "iffy" boat.

From new a dealer should supply the following documents. The items in bold are absolutely essential and the other items are those that any dealer who can be bothered (worth their salt) will also provide.

CE Certificate or Declaration of Conformity
Invoice showing VAT has been Paid
Bill of Sale (a bit like a car logbook)
Builders Certificate
Owners Manual for boat and engine/s

Decent dealers may also provide advice sheets on things like Electrolysis, how to get after sales assistance, sea start etc etc.
A good dealers new boat handover will also take a full day and include tuition onboard your new boat.

When buying used, whether from a broker or private you should aim to have the following. Again items in bold, I wouldn't accept the boat if they were missing unless I was buying it for throw away money.
Declaration of no liens (States no outstanding debt or encumbrancies)
CE Certificate / Declaration of Conformite
Original VAT invoice
Invoice from the vendor / broker to you
Previous invoices from owner to owner (for all previous sales - this proves chain of title)
Builders Certificate
All previous Bill of Sales (Assuming the original dealer could be bothered to supply a Bill of Sale then these are the easiest way of seeing full chain of title. Again from dealer to first owner, first owner to second owner and so on - again proving chain of title. A Bill of Sale is freely downloadable from the MCA website and then simply needs completing.
Any manuals, documents receipts etc

If you are buying new, make sure you know what the dealers warranty procedures are. It doesn't matter what you are buying, you WILL need something sorted under warranty and to find that you have to take your boat 200 miles to your dealer to get a small item fixed somewhat dappens your enjoyment.
A good dealer will work well with local contractors if your boat is a long way from them and they will come to your boat if you are local. For those of you who truly live in the sticks a good dealer would probably want you to help point out reputable marine contractors in your area and then the dealer will develop a relationship with them.
Your boat should only need to go back to the dealership in the unlikely event of a serious warranty issue (eg: something structural).

If buying used, it is nice and useful to have a "friend" who knows about boats, but I always recommend a surveyor is instructed to take a look around the boat, ideally to include the engine.

Hope that makes some sense!
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hello Tom

Thanks for your information, my friend is qualified enough to perform all the necessary tests, his company build very fast lifeboats. The information you have given me is fantastic, im not after a really expensive boat just a run around to begin with and have my eye on one already, although private owner. I reckon you have given me enough information now to avoid getting ripped off.

frostman
 
G

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Hi my partners dad is intredted in buying a boat for fishing from, he seems to think it will be a doddle, can anyoner confirm what you need in the way of certificates etc as mentioned above please ?
Hi Pirates

See my post above for the pitfalls of actually buying the boat.
How seriously you take it depends on how seriously you value your own money.

With regards to certificates of compitence etc.
You don't have to have any form of licnse or training, but I think everyone here would thoroughly recommend your partners Dad doing either the RYA Level 2 or the International Certificate of Compitence before taking to the water in his own boat. He should also do the VHF course and obtain a license for him and the boat.

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hello Tom

Thanks again for your post, although i have some experience, i firmly believe that doing the course's should be a must for everyone who owns a boat. You only have to look at programs like seaside rescue to see the idiots without a clue, risking both their lives and that of the RNLI due to lack of knowledge and being ill prepared.

Frostman


Hi Pirates

See my post above for the pitfalls of actually buying the boat.
How seriously you take it depends on how seriously you value your own money.

With regards to certificates of compitence etc.
You don't have to have any form of licnse or training, but I think everyone here would thoroughly recommend your partners Dad doing either the RYA Level 2 or the International Certificate of Compitence before taking to the water in his own boat. He should also do the VHF course and obtain a license for him and the boat.

Tom
 
G

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Hi,
Be sure to ask for a recent survey, this if done properly will list any problems, and if the owner has one he is unlikely to have stolen the boat.
One other thing to look out for is outstanding finance, as most marine mortgages are secured against the boat, if you buy with money owing you can end up having to pay that as well.
There must be a register to check both somewhere, I'm sure someone on here will know.
Gary
With Tracemates post in mind.

If the vendor cannot supply a Bill of Sale (complete with the original one with the supplying dealers company seal) and / OR a Builders Certificate then it is fairly likely the boat has a marine mortgage on it.
Marine finance houses hold the "Original" documents (the deeds) if the boat has secured finance on it then the owner will only have photocopies.
It is unlikely the boat will be financed if the value is less than £10,000. If it is it will be an unsecured loan rather than a marine mortgage.
For values less than £25,000 the finance will be unsecured and so even if the owner hadn't paid it off the boat's deeds would not be at the finance house and in theory the boat can be sold.
Financed amounts over £25,000 will be secured against the boat and it is in circumstances like this that the deeds will be kept with the bank.

Clear as mud?

Tom
 

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You only have to look at programs like seaside rescue to see the idiots without a clue,
Tom has starred on seaside rescue!!!!!!

Mind you I'm sure Tom has got a clue and much more.

Cheers Ian
 
G

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Tom has starred on seaside rescue!!!!!!

Mind you I'm sure Tom has got a clue and much more.

Cheers Ian
Actually Ian
The time that I potentially had the limelight on me had involved a catalogue of stupid errors culminating in me being an idiot and I don't mind admitting it.

It did involve a huge amount of embarrassment, no actual danger, but total lost power due to a cargo net around the prop, two good friends and their charter boats (Chris Caines and Richard English) a very sharp learning curve, a 25 mile tow from a large orange boat, a VHF from a large red and white helicopter, a substantial donation to the RNLI, no end to the gags from all the boys down in Weymouth, a denial to Seaside Rescue to show the footage, but too late to stop Merdian's 6 o'clock news, which the misses found very funny.

I do actually let some people know the full story from time to time as it raises quite a giggle, but has a serious side to it that can be learnt from.
 

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Hi Tom, I'm an HGV driver, and one day found myself in court over a case of careless driving....nothing to do with me, cept an irate next door neighbor who didnt want my truck parked in the street, he said I scratched his car, I pleaded guilty...anyway...the judge says to me..."even Homer nods " ....:) which means, as I found out,...even the great make mistakes....so dont let it get you down mate...:):)
 
G

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.."even Homer nods " ....:) which means, as I found out,...even the great make mistakes....so dont let it get you down mate...:):)

Norrie

:blink: I may come across full of it :clap2: , but I assure you I am very humble really :blink:

I do have a fair amount of experience, but guys like Ron have vast amounts more than me. It is only my job that puts me on the water more than most and I still maintain that everyday I untie the lines on a boat, whether it is for a delivery to the Med or just to put some fuel in it, I learn something new.

My little brush with a friendly Whiskey Bravo whinch man WAS due to stupidity, over eagerness and a catalogue of mini errors.
It's unlikely I will ever be allowed to live it down in Weymouth in as much as my own colleague's showroom there is frequented as a coffee shop by the majority of the charter skippers and a couple of the charter skippers also crew the lifeboat. In addition to that, my own engineer in Weymouth is also RNLI crew.
Most days, my little misshap does get jabbed back in my ribs, but I truly don't mind if I can help make the sea safer as well as a fun place to be.

Tom

PS: I think the point I am making is that we can all learn both from our successes and our mistakes.
If we can then share that knowledge we gather we can help others to enjoy our sport as much as we do.
 
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