[Duncan Holmes]

Hi Guys

I'm new to the forum, well in that this is my first post, I have been reading for a while now.

I've Decided purchase a boat for coastal fishing around the Norfolk Area and would welcome any advice that would be helpful.

I'm looking for something that I can beach launch as well as from slip using 4x4. Would be for 2 anglers and use up to 2 miles weather permitting, ideally with nice shallow draft as the harbours in North Norfolk are a bit shallow to say the least.

I'd like something with a cuddy as I plan to use the boat all year round when conditions allow.

Doing some research I am favouring the Pilot 6 with single 60 + aux, but i would prefer a rig with twin engines for safety, but i understand this isnt possible with the Pilot. Having been out of the Norfolk coast a few times in fast tide runs, i'm not convinced a small aux would be good enough in event of main engine failure in heavy(ish) sea.

Can anybody suggest or have experience of a boat similar to above that can be twin rigged? Or am I being over cautious with respect to a small aux being suitable.

The other question is that of qualifications/training. I dont have any boat handling qualifications, but do have 100's of hours experience handling boats up to 15 feet on freshwater, and around 10 hours with 6 metre rib off the south coast in calm seas.

Is it worth while me signing up to do RYA powerboat I and II, I know I will have to do radio operators course.

Any advise will be greatfully recieved on these or general issues around what i intend to do.

Thanks

Duncan

 

[PuddleSplasher]

Although not essential!!!

Make sure the boat has a rollercoaster trailer.

Mark my words!! Rollercoaster

No matter what you get and like you may rue the day that you do not have a trailer like this.

A simple push and it launches, a simple wind and it self centres and recovers.:help:

 

[AL_Carpman]

Hi Duncan.
How about an Orkney, one of the 14' models would beach launch easily enough with a 4x4, not sure if you're looking at new or used, but (for example) a new Orkney 452 weighs 365kg (plus outboard and extras), takes a max outboard of 30hp giving a top speed of 25knts http://www.orkneyboatsltd.co.uk/four52.html due to it's light weight, a 5hp (possibly 4hp) aux outboard should be more than able to push it along if you get in trouble, Orkneys make good seaworthy boat and should do fine off the Norfolk coast, I understand the problems as i've launched and fished there a bit in the past, in my seahog seajeep.

In my opinion, a twin rig on boats this small wouldn't be a good idea, it would be a lot of weight to carry and unnecessary with the right hp auxillary.

HTH

AL ..

 

[Duncan Holmes]

Thanks guys, rollercoaster looks like it makes a lot of sense.

Al, i'm liking the look of the Orkney, but 520 looks more what i had in mind, would you think a 5hp aux would still be ok.

I had a look at the Seahog Sea Jeep earlier, how do you get on with it?

 

[Guest]

Alan Craggs fits twin 40hp Yamahas to the Reiver Sportsman, and you could fit two 25/30hp's to an Alaska 500, with a bit of a squeeze. I'm currently looking at fitting the Reiver with twin Tohatsu 50TLDI's. Weight is important. Twin 50TLDI's come in at 187kg, less than twin 40Yam's at 212kg. Fine for the Reiver. An Alaska with twin Tohatsu FS30's (total weight 143kg), would be fine, and the engines are compact enough to fit onto the transom and articulate fully. There are not many other boats of that size with a wide enough transom.

 

[PuddleSplasher]

Ahhh but keep in mind the combined dual weight of 2 engines as opposed to a slightly bigger engine with a smaller auxilliary.

The bigger engine could give better top speed (WOT) or which may equal both smaller engines at (Wide Open Throttle)

Does someone really need 2 O/Bs at WOT when a single bigger O/B could possibly do the same speed at 2/3 throttle.

Speed, weight, fuel consumption etc.......

It shows Im learning when I can join in and be :drunk:

I too learn, Ty guys for that.

 

[Guest]

Ahhh but keep in mind the combined dual weight of 2 engines as opposed to a slightly bigger engine with a smaller auxilliary.

The bigger engine could give better top speed (WOT) or which may equal both smaller engines at (Wide Open Throttle)

Does someone really need 2 O/Bs at WOT when a single bigger O/B could possibly do the same speed at 2/3 throttle.

Speed, weight, fuel consumption etc.......

It shows Im learning when I can join in and be :drunk:

I too learn, Ty guys for that.

There are two advantages to twin engines. The first is safety, the second manoeverability. With twins, you can turn in just about your own length.

A Mariner F80 plus an F6ML auxiliaty weighs in at 206kg on the transom - more than twin Tohatsu 50TLDI's.

If the F80 goes on the blink, you're down to displacement speed on the F6.

With twins, either will get the boat up on the plane.

Most of the time on my old boat, we ran on one engine. Admittedly they were z-drives, but with outboards you can lift & tilt the other, so there's no drag. You lower when you need it, like in harbours & marinas, or there's a flat calm.

They'rs just a bit more expensive to buy.

 

[AL_Carpman]

Thanks guys, rollercoaster looks like it makes a lot of sense.

Al, i'm liking the look of the Orkney, but 520 looks more what i had in mind, would you think a 5hp aux would still be ok.

I had a look at the Seahog Sea Jeep earlier, how do you get on with it?

For beach launching/recovery a rollercoaster really is a must Duncan, with a bunked trailer, you have to get the bunks well into the water and you still run the risk of a wave lifting the boat and stuffing a bunk through the hull.

I'd say a 5hp would still be plenty big enough duncan on the 520, it's still a light boat for it's size.

I really liked my SeaJeep Duncan (it's still in the shed LOL), easy to tow, easy to launch, easy to use, handled a rough sea well, with the 40hp Suzuki 2 stroke, it would do 25kts WOT 3 up fully loaded.

The weight figures quoted for twin rigs, are around the same as my 115hp Mercury 4 stroke, i'm really surprised those little boats would have a transom man enough to handle all that weight and even then, surely you'd have to ballast the bow to prevent sky watching? Not arguing, just surprised

Still not something i'd want to do, double the expense of buying, double servicing costs, double the weight, half again (at least) fuel consumption, a bit of extra speed and new modern outboards don't have a habit of being un-reliable, so for me, a 5hp Aux would be plenty

AL ..

 

[PuddleSplasher]

For beach launching/recovery a rollercoaster really is a must Duncan, with a bunked trailer, you have to get the bunks well into the water and you still run the risk of a wave lifting the boat and stuffing a bunk through the hull.

I'd say a 5hp would still be plenty big enough duncan on the 520, it's still a light boat for it's size.a 5hp Aux would be plenty

AL ..

Listen to the man :notworthy

 

[egg-custard]

hi.. this is only what i heard and not my opinion....



i heard that twin outboards should be at leasts a metre apart to run to there optimium in there own clear water...
and not close together..as it negates there performance..

on the safety issue... do twins really have an advantage over a main and a matched aux...

 

[Guest]

You do have to put the batteries forrard in boats of this size, to improve the trim, so extra cost for wiring, etc.

If you tend to run only one engine for most of the time, servicing doesn't work out all that much more expensive - I switched my engine running to balance hours, and so both were serviced at 100 hours which worked out at 170/180 hours on the water - but a reduced rate for servicing twins meant that it was almost the same servicing cost.

As regards the transom strength - they're built to take heavy four-strokes these days! Lighter 2t's don't create a problem.

Even the Orkney 590 will take twin 30's and perform. There's one in Anstruther harbour.

 

[Duncan Holmes]

I am planning on buying new engine at least if not boat as well, as you say Al, modern ourboards seam to be much more reliable.

I might be slightly over cautious, used to have an old evenirude for pottering around on the broads, used to let me down on a regular basis, and wasnt fun on Hickling Braod in a good blow, let alone on the north sea with some weather closing in.

I hadnt really considerd the weight issue until it was mentioned, looking at the specs for Yamaha, Suzuki, Mariner and Mercury 4 strokes, there doesnt seem to be much in it weight wise. From the other points you that have been mentioned there doesnt seem to be much advantage in a twin rig.

Thanks for your comments, has opened my ideas a bit. Looks like a good mooch around at southampton in september would be a good idea.

D

 

[AL_Carpman]

Good luck Duncan, keep us up to date on what you buy

Here's something that may be worth a look, at Seamark Nunns, near Felixstowe http://seamark-nunn.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/SNL424 apparently this boat will be at Southampton on display and available after the Boat show.

AL ..

 

[Clinker]

The weight figures quoted for twin rigs, are around the same as my 115hp Mercury 4 stroke, i'm really surprised those little boats would have a transom man enough to handle all that weight

The Merc Mariner 115 4 stroke weighs the same as an 80 which many of the 16ft ish boats are rated to.

I am planning on buying new engine at least if not boat as well, as you say Al, modern ourboards seam to be much more reliable.

I might be slightly over cautious, used to have an old evenirude for pottering around on the broads, used to let me down on a regular basis

You'll find any brand of modern outboard is a world apart from things like old Evinrudes in terms of reliability, as well as ease of starting, smoothness of running and economy.

Getting back to the question of the boat, I took a look at the Pilot 6 at last year's Southampton show - very nice looking boat but the lack of internal freeboard and the rather open stern arrangement would be deal breakers for me. Don't know how smooth the ride would be either - the hull looks a very shallow V - has anyone here been out on one? - be interested to hear how it rides.

One thing to bear in mind when looking at Southampton is that quite a few builders of fishing boats are small builders and don't go to the show (presumably because of the expense?), so you might not want to limit yourself to what you can see at the show.

 

[Duncan Holmes]

Thanks, I spotted that earlier and have mailed them about a test run.

Looks just the job.

Will let you know how it goes.

D

Good luck Duncan, keep us up to date on what you buy

Here's something that may be worth a look, at Seamark Nunns, near Felixstowe http://seamark-nunn.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/SNL424 apparently this boat will be at Southampton on display and available after the Boat show.

AL ..

 

[Nos4r2]

i'm not convinced a small aux would be good enough in event of main engine failure in heavy(ish) sea.

You're quite likely to find that if you've got twin engines propped correctly you won't plane on just one engine. Get a decent sized aux with a sail drive prop and you'll be fine.

 

[AL_Carpman]

Thanks, I spotted that earlier and have mailed them about a test run.

Looks just the job.

Will let you know how it goes.

D

Nice one Duncan, it looks a damn good deal to me for what would be a really sea worthy boat, turn key package and all you'd need to buy extra would be a couple of lifejackets and some petrol

Seamark Nunn are good reliable people to deal with and at a guess, I'd say you *might* be able to haggle a bit more off, maybe..

Good luck.

AL ..

 

[Pedro the Fisherman]

All this about engines is missing another point DO DO the RYA course! It will herlp with your insurance and you will be safer for yourself and others!