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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Our Quicksilver 560 Pilothouse has never had any antifouling applied and in the ideal world I would like to keep it that way. We don't launch very often although do tend to use it for long breaks (during the last one it was afloat for 24 nights) --- and you can imagine that horrible growth that was stuck to her bottom when she was hauled out again. :uhoh:

Not wishing to have to scrub off all that growth again, I have reluctantly made a decision to apply an antifouling although I am not yet sure which one to go with. I have read Andy's excellent thread regarding Coppercoat and I am now to the point where I am seriously considering this as an alternative to a standard antifoul. Apart from the colour (brown to green) and the higher initial outlay of the product, I simply cannot fault Coppercoat if it is applied correctly, so let's put this on a back burner until we have discussed the more conventional (and cheaper) brands of antifoul. Hopefully, I will then be able to make a decision.

Q. As the gelcoat on my hull has a high shine, would I need to rough off
with wet and dry, to give a good key before applying conventional
antifoul or can you simply wipe the hull with a cleaning solution?
Q. Are there any particular brands of the product made specifically for
GRP boats?
Q. As my boat sit's on the trailer for most of the time, would
conventional antifoul actually flake off out of the water, (as it is
intended to do in the water)? Also, would the action of the rollers at
launch time cause any unsightly marks by scraping or compression?
Q. Colour may well be a factor that helps me decide. I know there is a
lovely deep blue that I would be happy with that would (almost)
compliment the existing blue trim and logo's on the boat.

Finally to sum up, coppercoat would only need doing once and should give me in the region of 10 years protection with only hosing down required. Conventional antifoul will need repainting every year to build up the layers again. Cost wise therefore, conventional antifoul will not be cheaper than coppercoat over a 10 year lifespan.

With your help my friends, you can help me to make the right decision.

Regards

Harry
 

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Hi Harry

There is one downside to this is that once antifouled the boat has to be on water if the boat is antifouled and then not put on water the antifoul does not work correctly
if the boat is put in the water when removed for any length of time then the antifoul becomes not very good

i dont know about coppercoat though but most antifouls work if they are put in the water and kept in the water without allowing time out to react

i am sure someone will come along and explain this better :thumbs:

I think a way forward might be to apply some sort of heavy wax polish before the boat goes into the water for a few weeks


ETEC
 
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Sorry to say I do not think you will find an antifoul that will be effective if left out of the water for possible months at a time. It will also be damaged by the rollers on your trailer when launching and retrieving.
I think Coppercoat will be your only option. Not only will it withstand being kept on a trailer but is likely to only cost the equivalent of a couple of years standard antifoul.
Whatever you decide to use, the hull will have to be keyed to remove the shine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Good suggestion to apply some polish Sean,:ahhh: I did that for Weymouth 2008 and although it gave me a bit more boat speed I guess the polish wore off fairly quickly because I still had quite a bit of cleaning from the hull after just 10 days.

I never thought to research different types of boat polish. Maybe I should look for a 21 day rub on. That would be the way to go for me personally as I would rather not use antifoul if there was an alternative. I will start looking tomorrow!
 

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I have copper antifoul - it's a different brand to coppercoat but same principal.

when you take a copper protected boat out out of the water, you have to wash it down - but more importantly you must (&I forgot this spring) rub down the copper and wash before putting back in the water. If you don't remove the oxidized surface layer, the antifoul is far less effective.

If your boat lives in the water - antifoul or copper foul.... if your boat lives on a trailer leave it with a nice shiney hull
 

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You can also get a product from chandlers designed to remove weed and barnacles (can't remember the name now - it's something obvious like 'weed and barnacle remover') that you spray on and leave for a short while - I've found it not so good on barnacles but very effective on weed and it reduces the cleaning effort required by a huge amount.
 

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sorry but can a power washer..the lance be used underwater..as in holding under water to give the hull a quick blast as i could reach right underneath nemo from both sides..will this reduce weed growth through the summer.or will it totally dislodge the antifouling..

harry have you watched the copper coat dvd /vid on there web site yet..to see how easy it is to apply..and also the testimonals on its use..i found this a great help..as coppercoat is now a must for me..seeing as the convential antifoul on nemo dont seem to last very long with out some hairy stuff on it..a boat with coppercoat near me on the berths that is rarely used.. is clean
 

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I know that fouling slows you down a bit, hence the yotties always polishing their yots, but in the real world of angling is the need for speed that great, after all if there is a bit of slop maximum speed is dangerous and uncomfortable, it also spills your tea. Edge of Time comes out bi annually to get the anodes changed and re antifoul. I know you will slate me for only proceeding at 13/15 knots but we do that no matter what, 25/30 would be nice but how would I be able to do my knitting.
 

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Fouling can knock 4-5 knots off my top speed, but that's not so much the point (I rarely run flat out, and then only for short bursts), but where it hurts is that cruising at 20-25 knots needs that much more throttle if the hull is fouled.
 

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I know that fouling slows you down a bit, hence the yotties always polishing their yots, but in the real world of angling is the need for speed that great, after all if there is a bit of slop maximum speed is dangerous and uncomfortable, it also spills your tea. Edge of Time comes out bi annually to get the anodes changed and re antifoul. I know you will slate me for only proceeding at 13/15 knots but we do that no matter what, 25/30 would be nice but how would I be able to do my knitting.
I agree I have a 6kt plodder and really enjoy the ride, sometimes more speed would be handy but not at the price of seakeeping. On the subject of antifoul I used jotun this year and its the best I have used no growth exept on the waterline.
 

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What about the system that uses an electronic current ( don't know what it's called), whould that be an alternative and has any body had any experiance of using it????
Dai
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'm still looking at types of polish. There is one called 5 star shine (american) that looks good, they reckon the US Navy use it on their radars. That's hardly a comparison to gauge how long it would last on the hull bit it's a start for my research.

Because I usually only manage about two or three trips a year, I can settle for the effort required to apply the polish on the hull before our lengthy trips. I will have to find something really good first though!

Harry
 

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I found this lot of babble but its probably what you need:1a:

Has anyone ever heard of using a heavy paste wax on your hull below the waterline as a short term anti fouling in leiu of anti-fouling paint. I really don't want to put paint on my boat if at all possible. I had heard of several people who put a heavy coat of paste wax on gelcoat and do not buff it off. As you run the boat some of the wax will be removed. For a period of 4-6 weeks in a slow growth salt water fouling area like the Pacific NW, I have heard this works. Pull the boat after a month or so any growth that has attached is easily removed with a power washer. If I could do this process several times during the summer to keep from painting the boat it might be worth it. Has anyone heard the same?
Thanks,
John
I have often put a quick application of Collinite 925 Boat wax on my hull at & below the waterline to avoid staining for short periods of time in brackish/tannin stained water. And it seems to work. Starbrite's Instant Hull cleaner will get rid of any hull yellowing in addition, so bottom paint is not needed as long as the hull is not going to sit for extended periods.
In clean salt water, warm (Bahamas) or cool (Maine, Canadian PNW), I have found no hull yellowing or growth for as long as two weeks, when boat is being used every day.
LHG,
Thanks for the response, any ideas who sells Collinite 925 as I am not familiar with that product. Do you think West Marine or Boaters World stock it?
Regards,
John
I have used "Starbrite Premium Marine Polish with Teflon" on my boat before leaving her 2 weeks in the warm salt waters of the Costa Dorada in Spain. I had a bit of a stain on the waterline but no real barnacle growth on the hull. Anything more than 2 weeks in salt water would require a more efficient protection IMO.
Erik
Aquaman, I am planning on doing the same thing with my '04 Montauk. I have had several face to face discussions with Al and Sue and Geno at Twin Cities Marine ht elast couple of weeks about this very subject. Their feelings are that if I pull it from my Lake Michigan slip every three weeks or so, and pressure wash it before it dries on the hull, there should be no concerns. Al stated I should put a good Carnuba wax on her and all will be fine. They had several large whalers sitting on the street by their shop one day, and none of them had bottom paint on their hulls. They were of the size where trailering them on a regular basis probably wasn't an option. The main thing they mentioned was to clean it before the dirt had a chance to dry on it. They all said if that happens, it wouldn't be much of a decision then to paint it or not to paint it, after having to scrub it to get the dried stuff off. I am just finishing today, buffing, polishing and applying a carnuba wax on her so she can go in the big pond next week. I also just finished installing a Mills Mooring cover on her yesterday. It was a little tough drilling 30 holes, but it was worth it for the protection it provides. Mills is a fine product. As far as wax application methods, I use a 10 inch polisher purchased from West Marine. It was just on sale last week. Happy boating!


Monty,
I think there is a big difference between the fresh water of Lake Michigan and the salt water of the NW Pacific.
Erik
The best thing I've found is a product called "McLube SailKote". It is a polymer based product that we use on the bottom of racing sailbots -- very slick stuff that discourages growth for short periods of time. It's not cheap but it really really works....
From their website:
TEAM MCLUBE HULL APPLICATION GUIDE:
The benefits of coating racing hulls with Sailkote are listed below:
• Minimize friction and maintain a clean, slick racing hull surface
• Repel dirt, oil deposits and grime from hull waterline area and below (no more dirty, black, slow waterline debris stripe)
• Significantly minimize growth adhesion to hull
• Any growth that does actually manage to adhere to hull easily wipes away
Online vendor:
http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d3000/e2072.asp This link doesnt seem to work but look at this stuff

http://www.mclubemarine.com/hullkote/


Hows That !!!!!!



ETEC
 

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What about the system that uses an electronic current ( don't know what it's called), whould that be an alternative and has any body had any experiance of using it????
Dai

I talked to some blokes who were trying to sell one of these systems to a boat builder at last year's Southampton show - if all their claims were right, it seems to work well, but of course needs to be in a marina where you have constant power, so no good if the OP's 24 nights are on a swinging mooring or in a harbour. They did say it also keeps the nearest half of the neighbouring boat clean as well, so perhaps the best thing is to persuade those on the berths either side of you to get the system!

It only keeps a clean boat clean though and won't clean off a fouled boat.
 

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I agree I have a 6kt plodder and really enjoy the ride, sometimes more speed would be handy but not at the price of seakeeping. On the subject of antifoul I used jotun this year and its the best I have used no growth exept on the waterline.
The waterline is important in this post, waterline is exposed to Oxygen.

Anearobic organisms don't need it but the majority of marine growth we come across are aerobic, need oxygen to live.

The aintifouling we apply to hulls rob the oxygen or have a a weedkiller type addative, since we became so environment friendly the weedkiller bit has been severely reduced.

Coppercoat is elemental copper in a coating, you can source copper powder with a quick google and add it to your anti fouling coating to create similar.

Trouble is elemental copper will grab any oxygen it can to make a stable molecule, leave it in air for any time and it is covered in no time with copper oxide and stops working as a biocide. Worst still when your boat is in salt water the electron potential to create copper chloride is greater than copper oxide and this is life threatening to human as well as aquatic life Your boat needs to be in water as soon as the coating is dry otherwise it will form a skin of'cupric oxide that negates it's efficiency as a biocide.

Perhaps of interest.

Copper based formulations are being investigated in Hospitals to combat the latest super infections, against clinical isolates of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA), Legionella pneumophila, Acinetobacter calcoaceticus/baumannii (ACCB), glycopeptide-resistant Enterococcus and spores of Clostridium difficile

The products of copper were not effective, copper sulphate, chloride, oxide, only the pure copper resulted in the death of the bacteria.

So to my mind coppercoat your boat get it afloat, as soon as it's dry, otherwise the copper is oxydised and is basically useless.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
look at this stuff

http://www.mclubemarine.com/hullkote/


Hows That !!!!!!



ETEC[/QUOTE]

Sean, (ETEC)

You are a star. I havn't had time to fully research the various polishes yet but I don't need to now thanks to you! I am going to buy some of that stuff and see how I get on with polish for the rest of this year. If I still suffer from a dirty bottom I will probably go down the Coppercoat route but hopefully even that won't be necessary if the polish works. And hey, As my boat will glide through the water like a racing yacht I will get an extra knot or so and keep up with Sea Mistress! (;)

Thanks for all the replies everybody.

Regards

Harry
 

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I think there is some confusion in this thread, or I'm confused!

My understanding is this: the two types of 'conventional' antifoul can be either ablative or hard. The ablative, is soft and as the name suggests, wears off during the season, and must be renewed. It needs to go in the water shortly after application, and needs to stay in the water and is not suitable for a trailered boat. The 'hard' type ie International Interspeed, is a hard, burnishable antifoul suitable for trailered boats. It has no need to be in the water for effectiveness. It is as hard as gelcoat and the trailer rollers won't knock it off.

Similarly, Coppercoat is a hard coating. It forms a surface layer of cuprous oxide which is herbicidal, which is then converted to the hydrochloride, which eventually washes off (taking any growth with it). The cuprous oxide is relatively stable in air and the hydrochloride is stable (if I remember any of my school chemistry!), so is good for a boat out of water. Similarly, the copper is held in an epoxy matrix - it's hard and will survive contact with the trailer.

If I'm wrong, don't hesitate to say so, I won't take offence!
 
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