[Ajohn]

I'm curious as to others experiences in this area. I always catch more with propa rag rather than the yellow puss filled dutch stuff that seems to be kicking around more and more these day. How about you. I'm told the welsh team use the dutch stuff.

John

 

[ade]

strange that cos i got some off ebay when putting them on a hook they had yellow milkyish stuff comming out tho i did still catch

the rag them selvs were red belly with green ontop

 

[Edgey]

strange that cos i got some off ebay when putting them on a hook they had yellow milkyish stuff comming out tho i did still catch
the rag them selvs were red belly with green ontop

I think you will find that this is because this is the time of year during which they spawn. I may be wrong of course.

 

[Gaffa]

What about the dutch lug? any thoughts on this?

 

[smiley73]

i went fishing with a mate from work and he dug his rag just a few miles from where we where fishing, mine from a local tackle shop... dug from Cornwall area.

i blanked (one lost runner) and his rods where nodding all night! 3 decent cod and a 6lb conger.

our lines where 20 mtrs apart if that :g:

al

 

[Ajohn]

I've caught on the dutch stuff too - it always seems to contain what I call yellow puss or something simular. I catch much more on the locally dug rag though. I think it's down to the juices - puss in one a brown sticky fluid in the other. It's bound to give out more scent. I can't help wondering if something is done to the dutch ones though to make them last longer or maybe they are farmed and don't get fed the way they aught to be. The only good point I can see is that they are much cleaner to use.

John

 

[rayjp]

Local dug bait will normally always outfish any "imported bait", from where ever.
Also note that however the bait comes into your shop, the supplier may have had it for a while and/or the tackle supplier.
If it was not for the farmed stuff English or Dutch, many of you would not go fishing, as supplies of natural bait are running down.
This is not due to over digging, but due to estuaries getting cleaner!!!!!
There is nothing wrong with "farmed bait" from where ever it comes from.
However many people catch plenty of fish on it and it has won plenty of money for the angler who has used it in hundreds of matches.

 

[Ravelling Tangler]

"Local dug bait will normally always outfish any "imported bait", from where ever."

Why ?

And does it apply to bait that has been "imported" from 3 miles away ? 30 miles away ?

I'm not saying you are wrong - I am just hoping there's a way to use bait I dug in another county when I can't dig at the state of the tide where I'm fishing and not be 'handicapped' by less effective bait.

 

[rayjp]

This is not a hard and fast rule, I know many times when dutch bait or tanked bait has fished better than fresh bait.
In all areas there is bait that fishes well all over.
In some areas there is bait that does not seem to fish well, its possibly something to do with the ground they live in.
I cant see why your dug bait wont fish well just down the coast.

 

[Ajohn]

I'm sure the real difference is the amount of juice in them and that this is why they outfish the dutch stuff.
On lug I have used what has been described as black irish lug and not had much luck with it. I have also been given "thames lug" and used it around the south hams in devon and had good catches with it. The most noticeable difference again was the amount of juice in them. The "irish" lug was solid but hadn't really got any.That's how I would describe dutch rag too.
What concerns me is a shift in uk tackle shops switching to imported rag to the exclusion of uk derived rag. It seems to be an easier route for some reason. And going on the lug I have used I just have to wonder about that too. There is no doubt what so ever in my mind that it is an inferior bate only to be used when nothing else is available.
I also believe that both of these baits are initially sold to the trade by weight rather than number. That bears a little thinking about.

John


John

 

[rayjp]

What concerns me is a shift in uk tackle shops switching to imported rag to the exclusion of uk derived rag. It seems to be an easier route for some reason.

Its very simple John.
The reason is that the rag season is getting shorter and less. Its not just an easier route, its the only option for the tackle trade.
For a start in the winter the supply of fresh rag is almost non existent, they just arent there and they are very small. Also the ground needs to recover.
The supply of natural rag is getting less not by over digging but by cleaner water.
Already this year my local rivers have either none or very small amounts of rag there.
This will change as the season warms up, but the writing is on the wall.
You and many others will just have to realise, that numbers of local rag will not be the same.
Heres the easy answer..
Dutch rag price stays the same.
The hard to dig local stuff goes up, by at least 20-40%.
What do you think.

 

[Ajohn]

I pay a bit extra for the local and may try digging myself at some point. All I was asking was if others have had the same experience with simular rag that is generally sold in peat. The juice aspect is unmistakable.

I do see that what might be called farmed bait is needed too. What I can't help wondering about though is why bait isn't farmed here too. And ok it would also be sensible to not over dig the fields. Lug have suffered badly from that. Many anglers buy or dig far too much bait. One can reckon on a worm every 20mins. In practice it usually works out longer than that especially out of the peak fishing periods around high and low water.
I can't go along with the clean rivers bit. They have been a around a lot longer than we have been polluting river water etc.
I have also fished with much better rag and lug in the past that I am sure came from europe. The odd thing about that rag was that the juices were clear. It was also prepared by the guy who sold it but I have no idea what he did it. It was well known on the Bristol Channel for catching fish as was his lug. (Providing it was ordered)

This all leaves me with the gut feeling that the choice of what I will call Dutch bait is purely commercial.

John

 

[rayjp]

I have answered a few points below, however my view based on the bait dealership side will be well differnent to yours.

I pay a bit extra for the local and may try digging myself at some point. All I was asking was if others have had the same experience with simular rag that is generally sold in peat. The juice aspect is unmistakable.

I do see that what might be called farmed bait is needed too. What I can't help wondering about though is why bait isn't farmed here too.


It is, there are two farms in England, one in Newcastle area and one in south Wales.
Therefore you have no idea how much farmed bait has been used in this country without any one knowing........


And ok it would also be sensible to not over dig the fields. Lug have suffered badly from that. Many anglers buy or dig far too much bait. One can reckon on a worm every 20mins. In practice it usually works out longer than that especially out of the peak fishing periods around high and low water.

Are you seriously saying that you use 3 worms an hour.........
If you are then with due respect you need to reaccess your fishing techniques.
The only time I have ever used 3 worms an hour, is when I have fallen asleep for an hour or gone to the pub, or used mackerel strip, lol!!!



I can't go along with the clean rivers bit. They have been a around a lot longer than we have been polluting river water etc.
I have also fished with much better rag and lug in the past that I am sure came from europe. The odd thing about that rag was that the juices were clear. It was also prepared by the guy who sold it but I have no idea what he did it. It was well known on the Bristol Channel for catching fish as was his lug. (Providing it was ordered)

This all leaves me with the gut feeling that the choice of what I will call Dutch bait is purely commercial.

Can you tell me whether your bait you use would have been dug, or farmed in this country or where ever.


John

 

[Ajohn]

The bait I use is generally dug.

On the 20mins I don't leave bait in the water for more than 20mins as it will get washed out - hence the comment about away from peak catch periods. During the few hours around high and low water I find that the 20min period still generally holds and only needs a FEW more worms to cope with the times when it doesn't. One thing I do not do is though is reel in if I have a tug. I wait 5 to 10mins and this often results in a fish. This often extends the time as it isn't unusual to get repeated tugs. I allow less inactive time the more tugs I get and seldom reel in a clean hook.

Maybe I should also point out that I asked the question because I have consistently outfished those about me over the past 4 sessions where others were mostly using what I am calling dutch lug.

The commercial aspect comes down to a feeling that the people who bring these rag in could bring in a better product but may not because losses would be higher for them and in the shops.

John

 

[t0ny]

One thing I do not do is though is reel in if I have a tug.

Could you possibly re-phrase that !!





I'll get me coat.

 

[jax]

For more info on dutch rags, check http://www.topsybaits.nl/ ( = in english)

Ps. Greetings from Holland

 

[Ajohn]

No tony - I don't go in for neck slapping - the wife is better all round. I'm tempted to add either way but I'm sure some would get that the wrong way round.

Jax by the look of the pictures I'm not convinced that those are the dutch rag i'm referring too. Maybe you can help - are they filled with lots of runny juice or something a lot thicker?

John

 

[jax]

Actually I have never come across rags filled with a runny fluid here in Holland.

I have gotten them from at least 10 different shops over the years and they were always the firm ones.

Maybe the runny ones are all exported, or maybe they don't even originate from here to begin with. It wouldn't surprised me.

 

[rayjp]

No tony - I don't go in for neck slapping - the wife is better all round. I'm tempted to add either way but I'm sure some would get that the wrong way round.

Jax by the look of the pictures I'm not convinced that those are the dutch rag i'm referring too. Maybe you can help - are they filled with lots of runny juice or something a lot thicker?

John

AS a thought you may find that the "dutch rag" could be Seabait rag or the welsh farmed stuff.

 

[rayjp]

Actually I have never come across rags filled with a runny fluid here in Holland.

I have gotten them from at least 10 different shops over the years and they were always the firm ones.

Maybe the runny ones are all exported, or maybe they don't even originate from here to begin with. It wouldn't surprised me.

HI Jax,
theres nothing wrong with the Dutch stuff is there.

The dutch market is supplied by Topsy Baits and wild worms( the normal dug ones).
There has been a couple of small farms started over the last few years, but they tend to be local to thier market.
As another point the quality that goes into a shop is not always the same "dug or farmed" if it has been there a while sometimes.