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Discussion Starter #1
I’ve just been watching an interesting video on “Italian Fishing TV” about a new association that was formed by angling entrepreneurs in Italy in 2017 (FIOPS-Federation of Operators in the Sport fishing sector).

We anglers often think that we have a right to be heard because of our monetary value to the national economy, and we do, but we are frustrated because we have no organisation that represents us all. The Angling Trust offers this type of representation but for various reasons has failed to convince the vast majority of us to subscribe. (It also does not speak for Scotland).

FIOPS in Italy is an initiative by a group of big player entrepreneurs who have very sensibly reached the conclusion that their profits depend upon the numbers of anglers, their regular custom and success for their efforts-poor fishing means fewer anglers means less profit. Several of the big players have united to fund and promote a new association that has already-in only one year since inception-had the ears of the Italian government and the EU. They offer the perfect locations –their dealers’ outlets-where prospective members can get information about the initiative and obtain subscriptions. Just think how easily the message could be spread around the UK if most of the angling suppliers adhered to the initiative. The subscription to the Italian initiative is 5 euros per year, so not a big deal.

Should we approach the people who make the most from our patronage and ask them to help us (and themselves)?
 
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Discussion Starter #3
First of all, I have no axe to grind with the AT. It affects me in no way at all.
In Scotland we have no representation and we need it desperately.
The organisation in Italy has been started by large tackle companies -not dealers- who felt that anglers needed more representation to protect and improve their sport. They have engaged lawyers, scientists and various experts to help them realise their aims. They have already been heard by the Italian government and EU.
I seem to remember having seen an AT promotion by GAC but I can't find it on their website.
The Italian org. is financed by the tackle manufacturers and a small 5 euro yearly subscription from anglers. I just felt that a similar initiative in the UK would encourage a huge membership, given that the people involved have a symbiotic relationship- anglers can hope for better fishing, and tackle companies would generate more profits due to more people buying tackle.
I haven't heard about any UK tackle companies contributing directly to such an initiative.
 

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Although not as involved as this Italian group there is already in this country a tackle trade organisation called the Angling Trades Association which is primarily aimed at coarse fishing and promotes heavily the very successful National Fishing Month events every year to try and increase the numbers taking up the sport. Typical though of the insular attitudes from many tackle manufacturers in this country is a report that states that membership of the association is dwindling rapidly and whilst no doubt people will reply saying such a company does this and someone else does that [which is alway to be applauded] , generally speaking the tackle trade [manufacturers] do very little in this country to promote and support the very customer base they're looking to make their profits from !
There is no logical reason whatsoever that all branches of the fishing tackle trade cannot be united under one banner to promote and support the sport but, however, there are illogical reasons why it won't happen and those are Egos and Politics ! If you've ever had the misfortune to try and deal with some of these people you will know exactly what I mean. I've coached kids who are more grown-up than some of these so-called business people !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
There's the Scottish Sea Anglers Conservation Network (SSACN).
SSACN does great work, but most sea anglers don't even know it exists.
We need something with an agenda that appeals to, and unites, the majority of sea anglers, more than just the conservation side of things.
Many people have reservations about conservationists. A lot of sea anglers blame the AT -probably wrongly-for the bass fiasco because they (and BASS) have been seeking protection for the species for years.
What is needed is a national organisation with high membership numbers and sufficient funding to be able to match the financial and political strength of the other stakeholders' lobbies.
I think that can come about by low cost membership subscriptions and the financial backing of the large tackle producers. The word could very easily be spread via their dealers' outlets.
They depend on us, is it not time for them to stand up and be counted?
 

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SSACN does great work, but most sea anglers don't even know it exists.
We need something with an agenda that appeals to, and unites, the majority of sea anglers, more than just the conservation side of things.
Many people have reservations about conservationists. A lot of sea anglers blame the AT -probably wrongly-for the bass fiasco because they (and BASS) have been seeking protection for the species for years.
What is needed is a national organisation with high membership numbers and sufficient funding to be able to match the financial and political strength of the other stakeholders' lobbies.
I think that can come about by low cost membership subscriptions and the financial backing of the large tackle producers. The word could very easily be spread via their dealers' outlets.
They depend on us, is it not time for them to stand up and be counted?

Just a pipe dream. We have been through this many times on WSF. People state many angler's blame the AT, without anything to back it up but anti's whinging on here. Discuss the subject in the open world and there's a totally different view from angler's. Yes some whinge but do not accept the truth. The AT is the very org you describe ,willing and ready to take action and that includes across the border. If you want action then make the Scottish federation of Sea Anglers get involved in angling politics instead of standing aside allowing the AT to kop all the grief.

If you truly want representation then make it happen .
 

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Discussion Starter #9
What is the pipe dream?
Tackle producers being cajoled into investing in the improvement of our sport?
Country wide exposure in tackle outlets and low membership fees coupled with large scale participation?
Seems to me that we could get much for not a lot...
 

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I don’t see what the big hullabaloo, what OP has stated makes prefer sense. The AT can stick to their fresh water activities and we can set up a bigger more powerful organisation that solely represents the sea anglers right round our coast.

I’m sure if the membership quoted in Italy is anything to go with, the subscription would be huge, over here.
No idea what the breakdown of sea anglers to course anglers at the anglers trust, but I’d imagine there’s more course members.

If this was to gather pace it would blow the AT out the water, they couldn’t compete with members or the funds it would provide.
Why would anybody be against protecting our seas and the future of sea angling?

Cheers willie
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don’t see what the big hullabaloo, what OP has stated makes prefer sense. The AT can stick to their fresh water activities and we can set up a bigger more powerful organisation that solely represents the sea anglers right round our coast.

I’m sure if the membership quoted in Italy is anything to go with, the subscription would be huge, over here.
No idea what the breakdown of sea anglers to course anglers at the anglers trust, but I’d imagine there’s more course members.

If this was to gather pace it would blow the AT out the water, they couldn’t compete with members or the funds it would provide.
Why would anybody be against protecting our seas and the future of sea angling?

Cheers willie
Actually the Italian association represents both fresh water and sea anglers.
I don't know how many members they actually have, I just listened to their spiel on Italian TV and thought how effective it could be here in the UK.
The speakers were tackle producers, and a legal expert.
 

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It would be interesting to know the amount of AT members in the uk.
I read somewhere, it’s around 15,000?
Surely it can’t be that low?

Actually the Italian association represents both fresh water and sea anglers.
I don't know how many members they actually have, I just listened to their spiel on Italian TV and thought how effective it could be here in the UK.
The speakers were tackle producers, and a legal expert.
Cheers willie
 

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What is the pipe dream?
Tackle producers being cajoled into investing in the improvement of our sport?
Country wide exposure in tackle outlets and low membership fees coupled with large scale participation?
Seems to me that we could get much for not a lot...
Practically once a year someone comes on WSF and says the same thing as you, and quickly followed by the typical comment Neptunes has posted above, dismissing the AT as a freshwater org. While the AT ignores the negative comments and goes about representing all anglers in England and Wales and occasionally in Scotland too.

Your suggestion is fine, no problem with that at all, however, it falls flat on it's face because nothing is ever done from anglers on here to improve our lot, all hot air and no action despite the efforts of the mods. Year after year after year after year and so it goes round, no new org materialises to do a better job than the AT.

There are many anglers working their socks off for the AT in sea angling as well as freshwater, all doing their bit to help improve our lot and our say in Government and what do they get?.......................... verbal abuse and total denial of the work they do while 99.99999999999% of anglers moan and do nothing.

I'm not having a go at you LAVRAKI, but if you truly want progress, if you truly want a voice then do something about it. Make the SFSA listen and get involved in angling politics, make them man up and work alongside the AT, join both orgs.

If you think the AT does nothing in Scotland I suggest you get to read the new AT mag called 'The Angler' and see for yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It would be interesting to know the amount of AT members in the uk.
I read somewhere, it’s around 15,000?
Surely it can’t be that low?



Cheers willie
I am not really interested in the AT details. but hearing tackle manufacturers speaking passionately about investing in the improvement of our sport and gaining access to better fishing struck a cord....
 

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Sorry Reg, I’m a bit niave could you give me a break down of the membership and the overall membership on the AT.
I’m sure you’ll have those figures to hand, rather than side stepping the issue like politicians do.

Surely competition would be a good thing, something to be explored rather than pushed to the side.
The AT has took a good few years to where they are just now. Do all your members work for free or are you a company? It’s good to get facts as well as opinions.

Practically once a year someone comes on WSF and says the same thing as you, and quickly followed by the typical comment Neptunes has posted above, dismissing the AT as a freshwater org. While the AT ignores the negative comments and goes about representing all anglers in England and Wales and occasionally in Scotland too.

Your suggestion is fine, no problem with that at all, however, it falls flat on it's face because nothing is ever done from anglers on here to improve our lot, all hot air and no action despite the efforts of the mods. Year after year after year after year and so it goes round, no new org materialises to do a better job than the AT.

There are many anglers working their socks off for the AT in sea angling as well as freshwater, all doing their bit to help improve our lot and our say in Government and what do they get?.......................... verbal abuse and total denial of the work they do while 99.99999999999% of anglers moan and do nothing.

I'm not having a go at you LAVRAKI, but if you truly want progress, if you truly want a voice then do something about it. Make the SFSA listen and get involved in angling politics, make them man up and work alongside the AT, join both orgs.

If you think the AT does nothing in Scotland I suggest you get to read the new AT mag called 'The Angler' and see for yourself.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Practically once a year someone comes on WSF and says the same thing as you, and quickly followed by the typical comment Neptunes has posted above, dismissing the AT as a freshwater org. While the AT ignores the negative comments and goes about representing all anglers in England and Wales and occasionally in Scotland too.

Your suggestion is fine, no problem with that at all, however, it falls flat on it's face because nothing is ever done from anglers on here to improve our lot, all hot air and no action despite the efforts of the mods. Year after year after year after year and so it goes round, no new org materialises to do a better job than the AT.

There are many anglers working their socks off for the AT in sea angling as well as freshwater, all doing their bit to help improve our lot and our say in Government and what do they get?.......................... verbal abuse and total denial of the work they do while 99.99999999999% of anglers moan and do nothing.

I'm not having a go at you LAVRAKI, but if you truly want progress, if you truly want a voice then do something about it. Make the SFSA listen and get involved in angling politics, make them man up and work alongside the AT, join both orgs.

If you think the AT does nothing in Scotland I suggest you get to read the new AT mag called 'The Angler' and see for yourself.
I've been on here for over ten years. I'm an avid reader.
I've seen all the criticism (and worse) that the AT, and by association yourself, have had to endure. I understand how committed you are to promoting and protecting sea angling, but the AT needs to cast their net much further. Most anglers I talk to don't know a thing about WSF, so there's a huge "market" for membership outwith WSF that isn't being reached.
I have been an associate member of SFSA (via club membership) in the past- even the distant past when they were much more involved in Scottish sea angling. I saw a post on here about the Championship in Wales and I could find nothing about the Scottish team on line. I've spent over twenty years abroad, so I don't know what happened to SFSA. I'm guessing that it maybe foundered and has been kept alive by some dedicated people who run on a shoestring budget and can't afford or can't be arsed with the political side of our sport.
 

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Sorry Reg, I’m a bit niave could you give me a break down of the membership and the overall membership on the AT.
I’m sure you’ll have those figures to hand, rather than side stepping the issue like politicians do.

Surely competition would be a good thing, something to be explored rather than pushed to the side.
The AT has took a good few years to where they are just now. Do all your members work for free or are you a company? It’s good to get facts as well as opinions.
I must have been asked that question 500 times on WSF and the answer has been the same every single time, I don't have such information. If you look down through the AT section on WSF you will find the AT Q&A's sent into WSF which clearly shows such information plus answers to a very wide range of other questions WSF members raised.

Competition for the AT would be of great benefit to sea anglers YES, but it would first have to be of such standing and prove beyond doubt to Government, Defra, the Fisheries Ministers and even the EU that they are as professional as the AT in all aspects of their work. I would love there to be an alternative option, an org that could test my loyalty to the AT, but there isn't and never will be so I will back the Angling Trust for the rest of my days as an angler. They are our only true hope of representation and development.

The AT has to trade as a company because it cannot rely on enough anglers from all disciplines to dig deep and dream of better things to come. I am, at times, as frustrated as any angler at the lack of progress, but I have chosen to get involved and ask the questions direct. I am satisfied that the AT is doing everything it can to help sea anglers with the little resources they have for sea angling. Personally, I cannot expect them to do anymore than they already do, not because they cannot change things to benefit sea anglers, but because we let ourselves down every single time and are not prepared to stand together as one and defend our sport.

If you want someone to blame....................... blame us, blame anglers.
 

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I've been on here for over ten years. I'm an avid reader.
I've seen all the criticism (and worse) that the AT, and by association yourself, have had to endure. I understand how committed you are to promoting and protecting sea angling, but the AT needs to cast their net much further. Most anglers I talk to don't know a thing about WSF, so there's a huge "market" for membership outwith WSF that isn't being reached.
I have been an associate member of SFSA (via club membership) in the past- even the distant past when they were much more involved in Scottish sea angling. I saw a post on here about the Championship in Wales and I could find nothing about the Scottish team on line. I've spent over twenty years abroad, so I don't know what happened to SFSA. I'm guessing that it maybe foundered and has been kept alive by some dedicated people who run on a shoestring budget and can't afford or can't be arsed with the political side of our sport.
They still exist in some capacity as do the Welsh FSA and the NIFSA. If UK anglers want a voice instead of waiting to see what the AT is doing in England then request their national bodies to get involved in fisheries politics, meet with the AT and work on a plan to represent the entire UK. That is not too much of a milestone, suggestions of a meeting to seek such a UK strategy has been on offer before, do it again and see where it takes us.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
They still exist in some capacity as do the Welsh FSA and the NIFSA. If UK anglers want a voice instead of waiting to see what the AT is doing in England then request their national bodies to get involved in fisheries politics, meet with the AT and work on a plan to represent the entire UK. That is not too much of a milestone, suggestions of a meeting to seek such a UK strategy has been on offer before, do it again and see where it takes us.
Can't argue with that.
 
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what you are all forgetting is the british way APPYTHY
IT IS EVERY WHERE
just look around you work , civil servents
for every one that triys the are 1000s who could not give a @@@@@@, there are a lot of people tring to inprove things,but face an uphill struggle,
there are clubs which try to improve fishing activertys'. club nights or takell eavnings charter fishing days . to help people like me. I must thank the lyimington and dis club for all there help.
and also some of the members of this site,
I thank you
 
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