World Sea Fishing Forums banner
41 - 60 of 68 Posts
Hi Guys,

To get an expert view on this i contacted the eminent Professor Robin Cook of the Government Marine Research Laboratory.
Here is my e`mail to him together with his courteous reply.
...So its hats off to Davy Holt who got it first time! Hi Richard
..........................

I am pretty sure this is a Lemon sole (Microstomus kitt) which is a fairly abundant flatfish in Scottish waters and very tasty. The skin in much more slimy than most other flatfish and is quite difficult to handle, but of course you can't tell that from the picture.

It is a very good picture. Would it be possible to add it to our picture library?

Regards

Robin



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richardicowling@aol.com [mailto:Richardicowling@aol.com]
Sent: 03 January 2008 00:02
To: Robin Cook
Subject: Fish Identification


Hi Robin,

Hope you don`t mind me sending you this pic and asking your help. But we, on the South Wales Sea Fishing Forum, have been at loggerheads with each other attempting to identify this fish and so I am seeking the advice of an expert. This is the only photo available and it was taken in a Scottish Sea Loch.
If you could help with the identification....or best guess then we would be very grateful.
Many thanks,
Richard

................................................


I presume it is o.k. for him to use the photo...and well done that cameraman!
All the best,
Rich
 
Hi Guys,

To get an expert view on this i contacted the eminent Professor Robin Cook of the Government Marine Research Laboratory.
Here is my e`mail to him together with his courteous reply.
...So its hats off to Davy Holt who got it first time! Hi Richard
..........................

I am pretty sure this is a Lemon sole (Microstomus kitt) which is a fairly abundant flatfish in Scottish waters and very tasty. The skin in much more slimy than most other flatfish and is quite difficult to handle, but of course you can't tell that from the picture.

It is a very good picture. Would it be possible to add it to our picture library?

Regards

Robin



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Richardicowling@aol.com [mailto:Richardicowling@aol.com]
Sent: 03 January 2008 00:02
To: Robin Cook
Subject: Fish Identification


Hi Robin,

Hope you don`t mind me sending you this pic and asking your help. But we, on the South Wales Sea Fishing Forum, have been at loggerheads with each other attempting to identify this fish and so I am seeking the advice of an expert. This is the only photo available and it was taken in a Scottish Sea Loch.
If you could help with the identification....or best guess then we would be very grateful.
Many thanks,
Richard

................................................


I presume it is o.k. for him to use the photo...and well done that cameraman!
All the best,
Rich
Lemon Sole?,i'm not going to do a "streaked gurnard" on this one but.....
 
Lemon Sole?,i'm not going to do a "streaked gurnard" on this one but.....
Lol.. I'm thinking the same :boxing:

I think he has done the same as most of us had, at first glance seen the markings and automatically said lemon sole, unfortunately the Lemon Sole has a bit of a semi circle in it's lateral line just pas the pectoral fin.. the fish in the pic has an almost perfectly straight lateral line just like that on the Witch.
 
I'll tell you something, its some sort of flattie :) so that narrows it down. Ive got a big encyclopedia of fish somewhere i'll have a look through that
 
Hiya,

nope not one of them :)

The dorsal on the Solenette starts almost in line with it's eye on the front of it's head, where as the dorsal on the fish in the pic starts quite a bit away from the eye and front of the head. It's other downfall as already pointed out by Chorley Boy is the fish in the pic is way too big.
 
I think this thread highlights the scepticism which should be applied to any expert's opinion. For every 'expert' who says one thing, you can find another who says the exact opposite. I have read a lot of nonsense spouted in recent theads, and have to chuckle out loud at some of the suggestions of various fishes identification.
I pride myself of fish identification, and this is my 'expert' (LOL) opinion based upon many years of experience, a library of text books, and the whole resources of the internet.
This fish is a witch.
The gurnard was a Streaked Gurnard.
The rockling was a five bearded rockling.
Sorry if this sounds pompous, and I know many of you will not agree. Thats life.
Phil
 
Not being an expert, the definition of which is

X = unknown quantity
Spurt = drip under pressure,

I have consulted various web-sites, piscatorial dictionaries, encylopaedias et al.

I have read the thread with interest and come to the following conclusions:

1. It is definitely a fish: Definition non-mammalian backboned creature that obtains oxygen by means of gills and inhabits the water.

2. It is a sea-fish: Definition a fish as defined in 1 above that lives solely in sea-water.

3. It is a flat fish: Definition a fish that is flat.:1a:
 
I'm no species expert (btw Edgey, X = 'has-been' :) ).. But I do know what can happen to images when they have been enhanced for publication via Photoshop or other such image processing packages.

The bold makings on the fish may be barely visible in real-life and before the photo was filtered & enhanced. Not saying this is definately the case with this fish, but worth considering.

ATB
Lobber.
 
Hiya,

I thought I'd ask the opinion or Doug Henderson at the national Marine Aquarium, he also copied in Richard Lord below is their replies :)

Hi Davy,

Good to hear from you and a Happy New Year to you.
When I first looked at the picture I thought it was a lemon sole, especially with that posture; also colouration is very similar to that in Frances Dipper's "British Sea Fishes" book. However I was also struck by the black tip to the pectoral a bit like a sole. All the Witches I have seen have been very plain beige, almost translucent; but they were dead on the fish market; as in this picture http://www.fishonline.org/search/advanced/?fish_id=123.

However, looking again it is far too slim for a Lemon, lacking that broad almost rectangular look. According to Wheeler (19978) Lemon Sole or Witch are the only possibles in NW European waters. Looking at the photos on Fishbase http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=26 and those that Richard Lord found I am getting more convinced that it is a witch, be it an unusually boldly marked one. Hence for the moment my opinion is that it is a Witch Glyptocephalus cynoglossus. Which coincidentally is the conclusion Richard came to – see below.

Regards, Doug

My first impression was dover sole, Solea vulgaris - eyes very big though but they are often raised and bigger on live fish. Definitely not lemon sole. Pectoral fin on eyed side has a blackish blotch at posterior end which is in keeping with Solea vulgaris.

I also dismissed witch flounder, Glyptocephalus cynglossus. I’ve seen thousands of these dead at Fulton Fish Market but I have never seen a live one. Reading the UNESCO book it states “distal part of pectoral fin blackish.” So then I had another look.

If the identification on this page http://zivazeme.cz/atlas-ryb/platys-sedohnedy is correct than the puzzler below is a witch flounder and not a dover sole as I first thought. I also looked at Norwegian photos and I am more confident now that the fish in question is a witch flounder.

See http://www.uwphoto.no/shopexd.asp?id=10258

Best wishes,

Richard
 
Hiya,

I thought I'd ask the opinion or Doug Henderson at the national Marine Aquarium, he also copied in Richard Lord below is their replies :)

Hi Davy,

Good to hear from you and a Happy New Year to you.
When I first looked at the picture I thought it was a lemon sole, especially with that posture; also colouration is very similar to that in Frances Dipper's "British Sea Fishes" book. However I was also struck by the black tip to the pectoral a bit like a sole. All the Witches I have seen have been very plain beige, almost translucent; but they were dead on the fish market; as in this picture http://www.fishonline.org/search/advanced/?fish_id=123.

However, looking again it is far too slim for a Lemon, lacking that broad almost rectangular look. According to Wheeler (19978) Lemon Sole or Witch are the only possibles in NW European waters. Looking at the photos on Fishbase http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=26 and those that Richard Lord found I am getting more convinced that it is a witch, be it an unusually boldly marked one. Hence for the moment my opinion is that it is a Witch Glyptocephalus cynoglossus. Which coincidentally is the conclusion Richard came to – see below.

Regards, Doug

My first impression was dover sole, Solea vulgaris - eyes very big though but they are often raised and bigger on live fish. Definitely not lemon sole. Pectoral fin on eyed side has a blackish blotch at posterior end which is in keeping with Solea vulgaris.

I also dismissed witch flounder, Glyptocephalus cynglossus. I’ve seen thousands of these dead at Fulton Fish Market but I have never seen a live one. Reading the UNESCO book it states “distal part of pectoral fin blackish.” So then I had another look.

If the identification on this page http://zivazeme.cz/atlas-ryb/platys-sedohnedy is correct than the puzzler below is a witch flounder and not a dover sole as I first thought. I also looked at Norwegian photos and I am more confident now that the fish in question is a witch flounder.

See http://www.uwphoto.no/shopexd.asp?id=10258

Best wishes,

Richard

Davy u da man :punk::1a::notworthy:notworthy:clap3::clap3:
 
41 - 60 of 68 Posts