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Discussion Starter #21
Good stuff Mark, lots of useful and thought provoking views/opinions.

Ian Dizzyfish on Anglers Afloat put a good informative guide together recently too.

http://dizzybigfish.co.uk/free-guide-to-kayak-fishing/
Hi steve the purpose of typing it all out was that they just wanted a basic guide on here without diverting forum members off to other sites as it was mentioned in an earlier thread ... I could of linked stacks of different sites , guides and clubs as there are many out there just didnt want too because it would defeat want was originally asked buddy
 

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Dam hennie, have you got a mate called snapper
uuu who wants to know.

met a very grand young fellah with a big hart and helpful nature.not a bad bone in his body i don't think.,only once .
his forum name is snapper,and ..the reason for the sarcasm is..???
or am i reading u wrong here.??
 

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uuu who wants to know.

met a very grand young fellah with a big hart and helpful nature.not a bad bone in his body i don't think.,only once .
his forum name is snapper,and ..the reason for the sarcasm is..???
or am i reading u wrong here.??
yes mate, it was wrong
 

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then i apologise.(was it u who made that great vid in the sink's,i have a bad memory for names.)
yes i know a snapper,( Mark Crame)genuine fellah.
u know him?
i am maybe a bit over sensitive. after what happened on this tread,so,.. sorry m8.
 

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I think anyone who is prepared to give people advice should be applauded. People only seek advice when required.
I recently learnt that it is not advisable to continue with a planned trip if everyone but you pulls out. Great conditions, all the kit then a problem.
What appeared to be a good bite during a drift across the reef at Kimmeridge, resulted in a solid snag tipping me out. All my gear was leashed and saved, and I thank God that I am strong and relaxed in the water, with scuba diving experience.
I uprighted the Tarpon, and climbed back on board only to be spat back out again in the opposite direction?
I calmly tried to understand the problem, and realised that righting the kayak had wrapped the problem rods leash 360 degrees around the hull, hence 'spring loading' it.
This time I swam around it, un uprighted it again, so that the leash was fully unwound.
The rod was horizontally underwater, pointing still at the snag, so I cut the line with my carabener knife on my jacket to release it. The kayak shot off with me still holding on, and I re-inserted the road and leash back into the holder.
Still, oddly, very relaxed and calm.
I then attempted to climb back in the corrected craft, only to find my dry trousers weren't so dry after all. They had filled to the knee in both legs and were stopping my legs from floating up to assist my remount.
With that, to my now obvious relief, a kayak pulled alongside and braced mine to him, while I hauled myself back in.
We both had a laugh about it, and I told him what had occurred to cause the issue, and he went off on his own towards Portland Harbour, and I returned to shore, as a safety precaution.
With hindsight, my God!
How lucky was I?
MANY THANKS WHOEVER YOU WERE, I OWE YOU A PINT.
 

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I think anyone who is prepared to give people advice should be applauded. People only seek advice when required.
I recently learnt that it is not advisable to continue with a planned trip if everyone but you pulls out. Great conditions, all the kit then a problem.
What appeared to be a good bite during a drift across the reef at Kimmeridge, resulted in a solid snag tipping me out. All my gear was leashed and saved, and I thank God that I am strong and relaxed in the water, with scuba diving experience.
I uprighted the Tarpon, and climbed back on board only to be spat back out again in the opposite direction?
I calmly tried to understand the problem, and realised that righting the kayak had wrapped the problem rods leash 360 degrees around the hull, hence 'spring loading' it.
This time I swam around it, un uprighted it again, so that the leash was fully unwound.
The rod was horizontally underwater, pointing still at the snag, so I cut the line with my carabener knife on my jacket to release it. The kayak shot off with me still holding on, and I re-inserted the road and leash back into the holder.
Still, oddly, very relaxed and calm.
I then attempted to climb back in the corrected craft, only to find my dry trousers weren't so dry after all. They had filled to the knee in both legs and were stopping my legs from floating up to assist my remount.
With that, to my now obvious relief, a kayak pulled alongside and braced mine to him, while I hauled myself back in.
We both had a laugh about it, and I told him what had occurred to cause the issue, and he went off on his own towards Portland Harbour, and I returned to shore, as a safety precaution.
With hindsight, my God!
How lucky was I?
MANY THANKS WHOEVER YOU WERE, I OWE YOU A PINT.
well put, and you were lucky
 

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I think anyone who is prepared to give people advice should be applauded. People only seek advice when required.
I recently learnt that it is not advisable to continue with a planned trip if everyone but you pulls out. Great conditions, all the kit then a problem.
What appeared to be a good bite during a drift across the reef at Kimmeridge, resulted in a solid snag tipping me out. All my gear was leashed and saved, and I thank God that I am strong and relaxed in the water, with scuba diving experience.
I uprighted the Tarpon, and climbed back on board only to be spat back out again in the opposite direction?
I calmly tried to understand the problem, and realised that righting the kayak had wrapped the problem rods leash 360 degrees around the hull, hence 'spring loading' it.
This time I swam around it, un uprighted it again, so that the leash was fully unwound.
The rod was horizontally underwater, pointing still at the snag, so I cut the line with my carabener knife on my jacket to release it. The kayak shot off with me still holding on, and I re-inserted the road and leash back into the holder.
Still, oddly, very relaxed and calm.
I then attempted to climb back in the corrected craft, only to find my dry trousers weren't so dry after all. They had filled to the knee in both legs and were stopping my legs from floating up to assist my remount.
With that, to my now obvious relief, a kayak pulled alongside and braced mine to him, while I hauled myself back in.
We both had a laugh about it, and I told him what had occurred to cause the issue, and he went off on his own towards Portland Harbour, and I returned to shore, as a safety precaution.
With hindsight, my God!
How lucky was I?
MANY THANKS WHOEVER YOU WERE, I OWE YOU A PINT.
Salutory stuff.
 

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Drouge not advisable where i drift fish if the run of the tide catches hold of it then you will be going warp speed although a drouge should only be used when its wind vs tide otherwise it will make you go quicker.
Really ? I take it you don't actually have first hand experience of this because outside of an eddy line, your scenario can't happen.

Your kayak is ON the water, moving WITH the water. If there is no wind or little wind, if you drop a drogue into water, even at 6 knots, it might not even open because you and the water are moving relative to one another.

we fish drouge in very fast water where we aren't likely to cross eddy lines unprepared or collect just submerged reef. We even do this in the dark.

Don't assume that the dangers in fast rivers where I wouldn't use a drouge always exist in the sea despite tide running strongly. We don't have submerged fences, or holes or falls in general sea kayak use and believe me, in the waters where we paddle, the tide runs very very hard laterally for long periods. If you cast a float off the side of a drifting kayak even in a tide race, it will drift WITH you. In fact, we rely on this to drift float jigs through such waters and whilst I might actually lift the drougue before i hit any race proper, you will still drift relative to the flow until the wind dicates otherwise.

Anchoring in really fast water can be tricky but not dangerous if you are skilled, practice and are prepared. However, we rarely do anchor as we want to use the water hydraulics to hold position.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Really ? I take it you don't actually have first hand experience of this because outside of an eddy line, your scenario can't happen.

Your kayak is ON the water, moving WITH the water. If there is no wind or little wind, if you drop a drogue into water, even at 6 knots, it might not even open because you and the water are moving relative to one another.

we fish drouge in very fast water where we aren't likely to cross eddy lines unprepared or collect just submerged reef. We even do this in the dark.

Don't assume that the dangers in fast rivers where I wouldn't use a drouge always exist in the sea despite tide running strongly. We don't have submerged fences, or holes or falls in general sea kayak use and believe me, in the waters where we paddle, the tide runs very very hard laterally for long periods. If you cast a float off the side of a drifting kayak even in a tide race, it will drift WITH you. In fact, we rely on this to drift float jigs through such waters and whilst I might actually lift the drougue before i hit any race proper, you will still drift relative to the flow until the wind dicates otherwise.

Anchoring in really fast water can be tricky but not dangerous if you are skilled, practice and are prepared. However, we rarely do anchor as we want to use the water hydraulics to hold position.
Ok another finger pointer , if the drouge works for you where you fish thats good , for me it just would not work being in the bristol channel if you ever come down to south wales please give us a shout and ill quiet gladly take you out to some of our marks and you can show me how to use one properly as long as i can video tape it

explination of the operation of a drouge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogue
 

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Ok another finger pointer , if the drouge works for you where you fish thats good , for me it just would not work being in the bristol channel if you ever come down to south wales please give us a shout and ill quiet gladly take you out to some of our marks and you can show me how to use one properly as long as i can video tape it

explination of the operation of a drouge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drogue

I know how drogues work m8. Some of the waters where we deploy drogues can make the Bristol Channel look like a canal.
It works for me, it works for those who paddle with me because it's physics. You are moving relative to the water.

If you are on a moving walkway and, parallel to you is a moving walkway and both are moving relative to each other, what happens if you throw an anchor across to the other walkway? Nothing. However, should that speed up then yes, it will tow you.

If the wind is opposing tide then yes, the wind is pushing the kayak one way, the drogue keeps you moving with the current.

At the end of the day, I applaud your effort to help out people but your take on drogues is inaccurate. It's the same as people telling you a kayak will flood if you pull a hatch off underwater. Those telling you this haven't done it because removing and replacing a hatch on an inverted boat is pretty safe unless you were in really rough sea's. Air pressure keeps the water out.

This is how people do a re-entry and roll. IF i take the time to put the skirt back on the kayak before I roll up after getting in the boat from completely inverted, the kayak will stay pretty dry.

Like I said, many texts written about drogues and current are talking about WW rivers, not the sea. It is different.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I wouldent comment on where you fish because I don't know the area , Bristol channel a canal really so you know my patch well then ? Food for thought me thinks . For the record I have tried a drouge where I fish and it was a definate no no but if your ever in the area I would like a lesson very much like I said as long as I can video tape it
 

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I wouldent comment on where you fish because I don't know the area , Bristol channel a canal really so you know my patch well then ? Food for thought me thinks . For the record I have tried a drouge where I fish and it was a definate no no but if your ever in the area I would like a lesson very much like I said as long as I can video tape it
Considering that I am a ratified BCU kayak coaches assistant for angling safety, I might take you up on that. Jersey and the Channel Islands has a HUGE tidal range and very fast tides especially where constricted. And yes, I do know the Bristol Channel and that too is fast laterally. But, IF there is no wind or little wind and you are moving WITH the water, if you drop a drogue off the side of your kayak, it will DRIFT with and RELATIVE to you.

If you fall off your kayak in fast water then, do you suddenly speed up away from your kayak ?
Only wind will seperate you from your kayak in current unless you and kayak cross an eddy line at different times.

http://www.planetseafishing.com/features/read/resistance-is-futile/
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Considering that I am a ratified BCU kayak coaches assistant for angling safety, I might take you up on that. Jersey and the Channel Islands has a HUGE tidal range and very fast tides especially where constricted. And yes, I do know the Bristol Channel and that too is fast laterally. But, IF there is no wind or little wind and you are moving WITH the water, if you drop a drogue off the side of your kayak, it will DRIFT with and RELATIVE to you.

If you fall off your kayak in fast water then, do you suddenly speed up away from your kayak ?
Only wind will seperate you from your kayak in current unless you and kayak cross an eddy line at different times.

http://www.planetseafishing.com/features/read/resistance-is-futile/
Considering that you are you must be an expert at what your talking about , but cant you do anything to do with the British Canoe Union with a bit of cash ? again food for thought now dont take that the wrong way as any club , likewise other establishments that offer a safty aspect to things we do on the water is only a benfit ... paid or unpaid . Yes look forward to it if you could show me the drouge working from penarth through to sully on a ebbind tide ( prefer over 15m ones ) ans sully to the cold knap on the same sort of tide i would be more than greatful and like i said would love to video it . Answer me a question if the water below the surface is moving quicker than that on the surface does your drouge still work . Any how like i said look forward to you showing me you drouge skills on my patch as i fish them weekly but i cant know what im talking about so i bow to you sir !

i hope the SWKA dont mind me using this but heres a good video of a kayaker being seperated from his kayak

[video=youtube;s_xLtwx7gVU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_xLtwx7gVU[/video]
 

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I need to get my head around this as I've never used a drogue. If you drift at the same speed as the current, and a drogue in the water drifts at the same speed as you then why use one? I always thought that drogues were for lakes so that the wind couldn't drift the boat too quickly?
 

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I need to get my head around this as I've never used a drogue. If you drift at the same speed as the current, and a drogue in the water drifts at the same speed as you then why use one? I always thought that drogues were for lakes so that the wind couldn't drift the boat too quickly?
Use one when you are on sheets of sea moving laterally but, it's windy to either slow you down or, ensure the kayak runs with any flow. In practice, the wind nearly always has more influence unless the current is very fast. It's a game of exposed surface area. You and your kayak are 9/10th's above water and your kayak, 1/10th in it. This is why I said, "In no, or little wind" in my previous posts.

Even lakes have lateral current. It's just smaller and less noticeable than on the sea where billions of gallons of water are being lifted as the world rotates underneath it. Yep, that's right, water stays, earth rotates under it. Headbanger or what ... LOL
 

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[video=youtube;0wVYtypPIt0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wVYtypPIt0[/video]

This is the water we train in and, fish in. Note how, in current, despite falling in and NOT leashed, the paddler does not seperate from the kayak. If it was windy, over a F4, I might consider a leash on such water. We fish area's exactly like this mark in the night too.
 

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the trouble is if the wind is strong enough to push u faster than the tide around here u probably shouldnt b on the water anyway cos it would b blowing a hoolie
 
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