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Discussion Starter #1
Have you noticed that some items of tackle are well-received, seem to work well (may even be "all the rage" for a year or two) but are not so much used a few years later.

Examples

Booby Beads
Holderness Twinpoint hooks
bait pins (this from a long time ago, when Peter Collins was editor of Sea Angler)


Can you name one or two others ?
Can you say why they are less-used now?
(they still seem to work as well, and I'm not thinking of ones that have been supplanted by something superior)
 

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Funny this, was just thinking about the Holderness Twin Point yesterday. I was never really convinced that they were an advantage but the idea was certainly good enough to get most of the top shore anglers using them for shore codding at one stage.

I too got my free bait pin on the front cover of sea anlger but I don't think I ever used it? The idea of a baiting needle is sound but I wasn't convinced about the presentation afforded by using the bait pin as it was intended.

Now for a couple of crap ones? Lead lifts, does anybody actually think these work without a motorised reel or speedboat towing your gear in? Just another bit of rig junk to get snagged I reckon.

Those spring things that people incorporate into their rigs? I picked one up off the beach today, they are surely designed to make sure your rig doesn't release from the bait clip at all aren't they? Handy that? Seriously if you are such a mega caster that you routinely suffer from your snoods going baggy, then use a low stretch line or just tie a 3 or 4 turn overhand knot in your snood to take up the slack every now and then. If you're using mono in excess of 25lb b.s. you are not going to weaken it significantly and you can't even come close to snapping that strength of line with a bent surf rod.

Good ones: the plastic breakaway that you add for extra grip across a strong rip, are they still available?

The Ted Thwaites 'bait safe' (?), not cheap, but perfect presentation of soft baits. Also genuinely gets your gear up quickly on the retrieve unlike the lead lift?

Cheers, P.T.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Prof Tench
You may want to start another post about lead lifts - I'm sure one or two people agree with you (more to snag - especially in kelp and "graunchy" ground - before you get the gear up in the water) but I bet some do not.
 

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I wonder about all these extras. All the magazines and books talk about natural presentation then go on to suggest attaching spinning mirrors, lights and booby beads, make it natural so not to spook the fish, then add lots of artifical extras to attract them? I always wonder when attaching squid why I am removing the plastic type bone, all experts suggest you do, but who removes it in the natural environment?
 
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Prof Tench
You may want to start another post about lead lifts - I'm sure one or two people agree with you (more to snag - especially in kelp and "graunchy" ground - before you get the gear up in the water) but I bet some do not.

Yea lead lifts with out a doubt bring every thing to the surface with in a few turns of the reel when theres not a fish on. In fact by the time there close in you have too slow down or they fly out the water at you. When theres a fish on I doubt they make any difference though not that I have had the chance to find out :)
 

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Well I fish rocky ground and I get less snags when using lifters than without (sometimes)
john
 

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Lead Lifts:

At close range in deep water with a fast reel they probably do give some lift.

At range, say over 120 yards in shallow water (less than 20ft) across a strong tide, they cannot work in the way we would like. Tidal pressure puts a bow in your line and will force the last 30-40 yards of your line onto the deck, when you come to wind in your lead must drag the deck for most of this distance. I can skim a lead and 2lb codling across the surface from at least 60 yards out with the Emblem or SLOSH, no lead lifts required.

To function the lead lift must assume the correct attitude to the water for pressure to force it to plain upwards. Even if you don't use a swivel on your trace your rig can rotate through 360 degrees, how do you get the current design of lead lift to assume the right attitude/angle to the water? If you can't guarantee it why bother to use them? In this respect, they would probably be more effective if they were made like dart flights?

If anyone is serious about achieving the lift effect at range in shallow water with strong tides, this might be of interest?

In May/June I often do a lot of gravel pit tenching with bolt style groundbait feeders. As you can't buy anything suitable, I make these by sawing the end off a good old 35mm film cannister and attach a 1-2oz 'dead cow' feeder weight. Other tenchy mates use up to 3oz with all kinds of lengths, diameters and gauges of plastic pipe from plumbers merchants.

One unforseen advantage of this arrangement was that providing you don't make holes in the feeder they plane straight to the surface even with a small, slow reel like the mitchell 300. This is great as it skips the rig over shallow bars and weedbeds taking the ball ache out of the regular re-casting that is integral to this type of fishing. I can comfortably lob the loaded 2oz version (probably about 3oz in total depending on the density of the feed) 80-90yds on mid range carp tackle and 12lb b.s. straight through.

Now whether a similar arrangement will lift a 5-6oz sinker I don't know but I suspect it might. If someone would like to try fixing a piece of hollow tube to a long-tail lead, can you let me know how you get on? Being hollow, I doubt it would affect fishing distance much, except in a cross wind when it will probably be towed sideways.

SRT Springs:

Just like you Cain, I DO stretch amnesia snoods. When they get too 'baggy' to let the hook clip down properly I do one of the following: shorten the snood by re-tying the hook with a half blood knot, or make an overhand knot with sufficient turns in the middle of the snood. Move the snood swivel up or the impact shield down by incorporating sliding powergum stop knots rather than fixed crimps on the trace body. Change the rig and re-tie the snood at home.

If snood stretch became a real headache I would change the rig body to one of the many quality low stretch lines available rather than use a spring. If the rigs' body does not stretch while casting, then neither can the snood. Or use a pulley as standard.

i) The SRT Spring will not contribute to capture of a single extra fish in your entire life.

ii) Unless you only use the impact shield the spring will let you down sooner or later. You will retrieve a rig to find it still clipped up because the spring maintains unwanted tension in the set-up. Reason enough to chuck them in the tackle bin until you find another use for them I reckon.

When using two rods for codding, I will vary the range every cast with at least one rod if I'm not catching. This can be anything from 20yds to my top whack (who said 25yds then?) I do not want to have to keep chopping and changing the rig. Unless you incorporate the impact shield, I do not believe a spring rig can provide a reliable release every cast.

iii) No one I know, who I rate, uses them. This includes former UKSF casting champs, top flight angler/casters (including the fella who just had a 21lb+ Holderness cod) and top match anglers including a sometime England squad member.

iv) In all the published long-range rigs I've ever seen, I cannot remember any of the following recommending their use: Paul Kerry, Dave Dowcra, Paul Coull, John Holden, Phil Arnott, Rod Carter to name but a few. If angler/casters of this calibre can do with out them so can I.

I'm not knocking you Cain m8, if they work for you good luck to you. But I see loads of anglers incorporating gizmo's into their rigs that they just don't need. Most of the fellas I see casting off beaches around the country don't generate enough power to justify using bait clips let alone a spring yet they all seem to use rigs based on extreme range designs. Dave Dowcra and Paul Coull were always strong advocates of a single 18" snood flapper for run of the mill codding. As one lad has pointed out on Nick Snow's flowing trace 'thread' you can thump this type of rig 120-30 yards without breaking a sweat. To settle a rivalry with Andy Rackham in the 80's Paul Coull (or was it Peter?) cast a baited 3 hook flapper a measured 165 yards without significant bait damage. Even today, there are only a tiny handfull of casters in the world who could achieve this. In fact, if we all followed Paul and Dave's rig philosophy, I doubt whether Gemini would exist. Like any business, they exist to get you to keep buying new stuff. Sorry m8, but I think a lot of rig bits are designed more with 'rig heads' rather than fish in mind.

I will keep an open mind about them and if Ian can tell me, hand on heart, that he knows of a rig that relies on a spring that will outfish all others on its day, then if he shows us what it is I'll knock some up with the springs I've got from 'tatting' at low water. But if it's a rig designed for pout, whiting, flatties or rockling (oh please!!!) that's not my bag m8.

I'll finish with some more words of wisdom from that Terry Carroll interview. With 40+ years at the very top of long range tackle development, it has to be worth re-reading?

"It amazes me, said Terry, that modern beach anglers use supple, invisible lines and yet hang all sorts of gadgets from them imagining they are using perfect rigs. I believe all the steel swivels and bits and pieces clank about and scare the fish away."

Food for though don't you think?

Cheers, P.T.
 

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SRT Springs:

Just like you Cain, I DO stretch amnesia snoods. When they get too 'baggy' to let the hook clip down properly I do one of the following: shorten the snood by re-tying the hook with a half blood knot, or make an overhand knot with sufficient turns in the middle of the snood. Move the snood swivel up or the impact shield down by incorporating sliding powergum stop knots rather than fixed crimps on the trace body. Change the rig and re-tie the snood at home.
The easy solution is don't crimp so tight that you can't move the crimps, it is not difficult! I set each crimp so that I can just about move it. Then you can make adjustments without having to resort to tying overhand knots in snoods etc (which by the way will weaken line strength to around 50%, maybe less).

Sure if you get a decent sized fish on the crimp may slide down, but who cares, just slide it back up again!
 

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I have some lead lifts knocking about somewhere, I didn't buy them ..... I picked them up from rocky ground at low tide....... as we used to write in maths.... QED.
 

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Hi Ian,

Which rigs then? Crimps - too right m8. Ruff Ground a 3 or 4 turn overhand knot in Amnesia will reduce it's B.S. by the same as any other 3 or 4 turn knot, about 10%. Get a spring balance and try it for yourself if you don't believe me but I can assure you there are hundreds of us who have already tested this and I would not recommend anything that would reduce your line strngth by 50%.

Cap 'n' Haddock - love it m8, you make me laugh you do!

So let's have these Spring contraptions then Ian, are you sure you're not getting caught up with 'rigitus' m8, as I wasn't aware that there were any awards for rig tying? It is a necessary chore to me and I would never use a rig tied by someone else. If the knot tears apart when casting and the lead thwacks someone around the ear, who are they going to sue if you bought the rig?

Cheers, P.T.
 

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hold on old chap you sound like you are getting annoyed there for some reason.
well one rig for a start that needs springs is the two hook boomed bomber (gemini) and the one i make does not have the crimps.
like i said springs have their place thats all i said.
as for rigtitis, why get arsey? I make plenty of rigs so what it is part of my living and i am allowed an opinion am i not?
as for the rig tying award, well it is painfully obvious it is meant as a joke (or maybe not?)
I am no differnt from anyone else, thinking about new things, scrapping most of them but hitting a decent idea on some and i simply added my opinion. so what?
 

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just a thought bu using 'smarties in stead od your crimp,bead,swivel, bead, crimp steup reduces the amount of points where pressure is applied on the trace body by half.
 

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Sorry Ian,

It was not my intention to cause you any offence. I was only kidding about the 'award' thing as I'm sure you make sound rigs and obviously give them a lot of thought. There is clearly a demand for pre-tied rigs but they are not for me.

I wasn't being arsey m8, I'm a Yorkie and we do tend to be a bit too blunt and direct for some people's tastes at times and for this I apologise.

Still not convinced about the needs for SRT Springs in my own fishing but each to their own I say? Interesting debate all the same, eh?

What do you use for stops instead of crimps then Ian? I prefer a four or five turn stop knot in 14lb green Drennan power gum. But find you need two below the snood swivel to prevent slippage on long range paternosters. Perhaps I would get away with one if I incorporated an SRT Spring as well? Joke!

Cheers, P.T.

'When I see a spade I call it a spade' - never realised that Oscar Wilde was a Yorkie too?!
 
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