[snowysfishing]

Hi all, any advise or experiences would be most welcome!

I have a seven month old Arvor 215as which has just been taken out of the water for a check over/anti-foul.

On checking the boat all three anodes have been 'eaten' away to nothing and the prop looks like it was on the Mary Rose! It is corroded, pitted and the edges have started to disintegrate.

I have spoken to Essex Boatyards who supplied the boat and sent them photographs. They have told me the prop is useless and needs replacing as the anodes obviously do as well. They tell me that the boat has been attacked by serious electrolysis and that this damage can occur over over a matter of hours.

A new prop is £500 plus the vat.

Evidently the boat has been moored near another vessel with a serious electrical discharge and that discharge has locked onto my shiny new anodes, having finished consuming them it has turned its attention to the next softest metal which is the propellor.

I am amazed that this can happen and that I get saddled with a £700 bill on a 'new' boat. I am told this can occur anywhere at any time and cannot be defended against and is not covered by any warranty.

I have to say that what I was told made sense but does anyone else have any experience or remedy?

 

[NeedlesCodmaster]

Hi all, any advise or experiences would be most welcome!

I have a seven month old Arvor 215as which has just been taken out of the water for a check over/anti-foul.

On checking the boat all three anodes have been 'eaten' away to nothing and the prop looks like it was on the Mary Rose! It is corroded, pitted and the edges have started to disintegrate.

I have spoken to Essex Boatyards who supplied the boat and sent them photographs. They have told me the prop is useless and needs replacing as the anodes obviously do as well. They tell me that the boat has been attacked by serious electrolysis and that this damage can occur over over a matter of hours.

A new prop is £500 plus the vat.

Evidently the boat has been moored near another vessel with a serious electrical discharge and that discharge has locked onto my shiny new anodes, having finished consuming them it has turned its attention to the next softest metal which is the propellor.

I am amazed that this can happen and that I get saddled with a £700 bill on a 'new' boat. I am told this can occur anywhere at any time and cannot be defended against and is not covered by any warranty.

I have to say that what I was told made sense but does anyone else have any experience or remedy?

same as mine metal barge did it and chain glad you have said this wiill print and take down harbour and get angry:uhuh:

 

[NeedlesCodmaster]

same as mine metal barge did it and chain glad you have said this wiill print and take down harbour and get angry:uhuh:

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62364

 

[Afishionado]

First off plan on fitting MUCH larger anodes. I am guessing that the ones supplied were not up to the job size wise, but then if the boat was new and the anodes supplied with it were not big enough the supplier of the boat has "A duty of care" so it is not quite as clear cut as they are making out.
As an example if you whilst you were buying the boat said "I will be keeping her afloat in such and such marina" as professionals in the eyes of the law they should (required by the terms of duty of care) have told you marina berths a notorious for stray electrical discharges and there fore you should fit MUCH bigger anodes. The anodes did exactly what they should have done they just were not big enough to last in a high corrosion environment.

As a general warning to all who moor in a marina. LIFT YOUR BOAT EVERY 6 MONTHS MAXIMUM AND CHECK THE ANODES.

Afishionado

 

[ChrisP]

Just a thought:

If the boat with the known fault had collided with your boat it would be an insurance claim. In this case the damage has occurred without a collision, however it is directly attributable to another boat.

Give your insurance a ring and see what they say, got to be worth a try.

 

[snowysfishing]

Insurance company said 'tough' but in a nicer way! They state it is not something that can be insured against.

 

[Guest]

Would it be worth pursuing a claim in the small claims court against the boat owner?

 

[paul morgan]

Hi all, any advise or experiences would be most welcome!

I have a seven month old Arvor 215as which has just been taken out of the water for a check over/anti-foul.

On checking the boat all three anodes have been 'eaten' away to nothing and the prop looks like it was on the Mary Rose! It is corroded, pitted and the edges have started to disintegrate.

I have spoken to Essex Boatyards who supplied the boat and sent them photographs. They have told me the prop is useless and needs replacing as the anodes obviously do as well. They tell me that the boat has been attacked by serious electrolysis and that this damage can occur over over a matter of hours.

A new prop is £500 plus the vat. to be honest you will struggle to get anything out of essex boat yards I had a real good look at a 23 at the southamton boat show and liked what I saw i rang them for a sea trial as I am a four and a half hour drive away I tried to get a trial in the south west it was suggested that I used stonefisher hire in plymouth and payed the £180 for the day and they would reimburse me the money if I brought one from them I cooled on them very quickly

 

[Salar]

to be honest you will struggle to get anything out of essex boat yards I had a real good look at a 23 at the southamton boat show and liked what I saw i rang them for a sea trial as I am a four and a half hour drive away I tried to get a trial in the south west it was suggested that I used stonefisher hire in plymouth and payed the £180 for the day and they would reimburse me the money if I brought one from them I cooled on them very quickly

Their idea seems a good one actually - as they are in Essex and are hardly going to bring a boat to Devon for you to try, offering to reimburse the hire cost is nice. Would any other boatyard reimburse someone their travel costs to go to the boatyard for a trial? Unlikely.

 

[ChrisP]

There is a bit of kit called a Galvanic Isolator that stops the stray current getting into the water. The only trouble is the boat that is letting the voltage into the water has to have it fitted, putting one on your boat will not help.

IMHO it should be a requirement in all marinas that you have one fitted before you are allowed to connect to the shore power supply. It would save a fortune in repairs for boats but cost the repairers so can't see it happening.

 

[Guest]

Following on from this discussion, I am about to moor my boat for the first time at Newhaven. I have anodes on the outboard which I intend to tilt out of the water when moored. The boat has a stainless steel keelband. Would I need to fit any anodes to the boat hull?

 

[ChrisP]

You will find that the bottom of the engine mount is in the water even when the engine is tilted up. This has a flat plate type anode on the bottom to protect it as it is alloy. Keep an eye on it. There should be a short length of stainless cable from a bolt on the engine mount to this anode to provide electrical continuity.

The keel band will not need protecting.

 

[Davy Holt]

edit.. what Chris says ... I'd also check that the bolts / screws holding the keel band on are of the same material as the keel band... I've just discovered the hard way that A2 bolts don't last too long when bolting on a A4 keel strap

 

[Guest]

They look stainless too so I should be ok, cheers.

 

[ChrisP]

Valid point Davy, A2 is the usual material for screws and bolts as it is cheaper but doesn't mix well with A4 or 316L. If you can't avoid mixing the 2 try some PTFE paste under the head of the fixing. (Available from plumbers merchants) Tef-gel is sold at some chandlers for this but look at the price of it!

What happens is you get a tiny ammount of sea water under the head of the fixing and it tracks along the threads. This then turns acidic and provides the cell for corrosion between the different grades of Stainless. Keep that tiny bit of water out and you stop the corrosion. PTFE paste is the dogs for this sort of job.

 

[Davy Holt]

Hiya,

The problem I've had is on the head of the countersunk bolts, it's the faces of the countersink that have been reacting, causing the face on the screw to erode away, given that they are only 6mm bolts there aint a lot on them to begin with. I think they will be getting changed to 10mm A4 bolts before the year is out

 

[snowysfishing]

Thanks everyone for their input, I suspect that the problem occurred where the boat was temporarily moored for two months as the adjacent boat was a princess liveaboard with permanent shore power. I suppose I could claim on his insurance but I would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he was the problem.

My existing marina belongs to an angling club and is full of Arvors which have had no problem. I am going down the line of fitting the biggest anodes I can find plus putting another big one on a length of cable secured by a crocodile clip to the shaft.

That one I will chuck over the side and inspect for wear everytime I go to the boat.

 

[Guest]

At Southern Motorboats we have always discussed the problems of electrolysis with our customers. The trouble is, with a thorough hand over , the customer has a huge amount of info to take in and we did have two customer's whose boats suffered as yours has. Jeanneau (as Arvor) claimed negligence and refused to pay under warranty.
What this did was enforce the need for information about the problem of electrolysis and galavanic corrosion.

Now bare in mind I know about boats, but I am a duffer when it comes to science.
In our "wisdom" it was decided that I would write a document to hand our customers during hand over. This info sheet is by a layman (me) to laymen so is very basicly worded. It is also very unscientific worded and may contain some subtle scientific inaccuracies, but the point of it is, "Watch your anodes"!

I have pasted it below and although it won't help you now, it may well help others in the future so have a read and digest.

ALSO: Buy a whopper great big yacht anode (HUUUUUGGGGEEE one).
Attach some rigging cable to it. Sheeth the rigging cable to protect your gel coat.
Lob the anode over the side (remember to pull it back in before you go out)
Attach the other end to any point on the boat that is earthed (the engine?) with crocodile clips.
This dirty great huge anode won't stop electrolysis, but will help slow down the whole problem.

Here is a copy of our info sheet. Please remember it is very basic.

*******

Electrolysis on the South Coast
Advice from the team at Southern Motorboats

All metal, including stainless steel, can and will suffer from corrosion if care is not taken to prevent it.
Your new boat is fitted with "Anodes" which are made of a soft metal (usually zinc) and electrolytic current will corrode these instead of your expensive propellers and other metal objects on the boat.
Anodes are the boat owner’s saviour, but these too must be checked regularly as they are designed to corrode and once gone the electrolytic current will begin to attack the remaining metal objects on the boat. Your boat will be fitted with at least one anode and, as a general rule of thumb, as the boat gets bigger, the larger in size and number of anodes there are. If in doubt ask the team at Southern Motorboats where you anodes are.

Your anodes were designed to last a full season's boating and would normally be replaced prior to her annual spring clean, however, the effects of electrolysis are enhanced by marinas with metal piles, poor electrical wiring and more and more boats permanently plugged into shore power.
The above statement is very pertinent in our boating area. The South Coast has a huge number of marinas with tens of thousands of boats and as a result we have a very high rate of electrolysis. If your boat stays in the water and is kept predominantly on the South Coast your anodes will need replacing more regularly in order to protect your boat. If fitted, keep an eye on your transom anode, once it is about three quarters or so worn it is time to change it and any other anodes fitted.
Anodes are cheap, but changing them can be expensive if you lift your boat from the water to do it. If you do lift your boat it is often worth doing other simple maintenance jobs at the same time. For example a good scrub of the hull or a quick coat of antifoul. Anodes can also be changed by hiring a commercial diver. A diver will change your anodes for a fraction of the price of a marina lift and they work all year round if needed. The very cheapest way of changing your anodes is by donning a wetsuit, snorkel and facemask and doing it yourself. You must check with your marina that this is allowed. Never change your own anodes in the water unless you have the necessary skills and take appropriate safety precautions.

There are a number of very effective, commercially available and DIY ways to slow down the effects of electrolysis. Again, ask the Southern Motorboats team for advice.

If you are aware of electrolysis and take the necessary steps to avoid it, your new boat will provide many years of corrosion free enjoyment. Your Jeanneau warranty is excellent, but will not cover corrosion as a result of negligence with your anodes.

 

[Afishionado]

Tom's point above complies totaly with "Duty of care" legislation. I still say you might like to 'rattle the cage' of the supplier by threatening a small claims actio against them due to lack of care. I would also use the So' Motor Boats sheet as an example of what should have been done.

Afishionado

 

[ChrisP]

ALSO: Buy a whopper great big yacht anode (HUUUUUGGGGEEE one).
Attach some rigging cable to it. Sheeth the rigging cable to protect your gel coat.
Lob the anode over the side (remember to pull it back in before you go out)
Attach the other end to any point on the boat that is earthed (the engine?) with crocodile clips.
This dirty great huge anode won't stop electrolysis, but will help slow down the whole problem.

There is a bit of wierdness with this eloctrolysis/galvanic corrosion, if you go HUUUUUGGGGEEE with the Zinc it can actually reverse the effect. The zinc gets transported onto the prop in the form of zinc chloride (and will stick to any other metals under water) It leaves the prop blades feeling like sand paper so it is easy to check for and is more preferrable to the prop or fittings dissolving. It can be removed by polishing so is cheaper to rectify.

If you do use the extra big zinc to provide additional protection and you can check the prop occasionally if it feels rough to the touch but is not coppery coloured reduce the size of the extra zinc a bit. If you do get a lot of this chloride depositing on the prop it can provide a hold for weed/barnacle growth and will reduce the prop efficiency anyway because of the rough surface. If the prop is rough and coppery coloured then it is being corroded, so you need to up the size of the zinc.

Another thing to check is that all the metal under water that you need to protect is electrically bonded to the anodes by good heavy duty copper flex. It should be in place from manufacture but the cables doing the bonding are normally terminated in crimps and these corrode in the salt rich, damp atmosphere under the deck. It is well worth adding an hour to the annual maintenance tasks by going round all the bonding wires and making sure there is no corrosion on the ends. If there is remake the connection with fresh crimps and give them a good dose of vasseline to protect them. Without these bonding wires it doesn't matter how many anodes you have.

One more thing to check if you have an inboard with a rubber flap on the exhaust port or rubber exhaust hose. Some rubbers are made with carbon impregnated. If the flap or hose on yours is of this type of rubber it will eat through the stainless hull fitting. The way to check it to undo the clamp holding the flap and/or hose and look at the flange of stainless it is secured to. If it is pitted you have a problem.