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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been fishing Dungeness for the last 40 years and I've read many pieces about how to approach the venue and what leads to use. Without doubt Dungeness can be a challenging venue and it doesn't suffer fools lightly.

How familiar is this scenario?

You go to the trouble to get the freshest bait you can, you then get yourself onto the right spot, you wind yourself up and launch your bait seaward, so job done, stand back and await the legendary slack liner!

Wrong - your weight trundles off downtide. Even worse, the angler down tide casts his standard 4 oz breakaway over your loop of line going downtide and drags you further down at best, or into one of the tackle snags!

So having got all the ingredients right you need to hold bottom correctly or it will all be in vain. I read with great interest Bricky Lee's thread on the subject, and we should all take note, he isn't wrong. But in reality the minimum amount of lead required to effectively hold bottom will depend on many variable aspects. Natural elements outside of our control such as strength of tide run, amount of weed, size & power of the swells. Then the things within our direct control like main line diameter & size of bait and how far we cast.

Having the ability to cast a good distance brings with it a number of problems, the more line out there the more difficulty you will experience holding bottom.

In my mind this is best addressed by walking along the beach and casting uptide, let the lead hit bottom after which let a a little line and walk back to your tripod let out a little more line and let the tide tighten your line up. Ideally the line needs to be going straight out in front of you so that you are holding bottom uptide of your fishing position. Before you do this you need to make sure you can outcast the angler who is uptide or you will cause endless problems. The amount you go uptide will depend on the depth of water and tide strength.

Remember the size of lead chosen will need to tow your bait out the right distance and then get your bait to the bottom quickly & digging into the bottom with limited skidding. I believe the old school nose grip leads we used back in the day were more efficient than a lot of the modern breakout leads.

I recently fished the point, I used 2 rods and compared various leads, as supplied by Dustybin on this site.

On the first rod I used a classic DCA 6 oz nose grip lead. This worked fine fishing at circa 120 to 130 yards in a moderate tide run.

On the second rod I used a 6 1/4 oz special nose wired Namix. This lead cast slightly better and held about the same as the DCA.

As the tide run strengthened the DCA lead on the first rod started to skid downtide so a change to a 6 1/4 oz special long tail namix lead and it was immediately noticeable that:
1 - the distance cast improved, the long tail meant that the lead flew like a dart, and
2 - it held up in the tide better than the same style lead with the standard short tail.

The tide really started pulling hard and I found I wasn't holding as firmly as I need, so I changed to the 7oz long tailed namix, the result was I held bottom firmly.

Another plus point of this system is that when a cod picks the bait, or livebait, the lead offers more resistance and improved self hooking, by repeatidly digging in instead of trundling off downtide.

Also, fixed wire leads do take a fair bit of effort winding, which is why many opt for break out leads, but on the long tails you can fit a lead lift to help get the lead up in the water and hopefully over the tackle snags on this venue.

My conclusion was that the long tailed namix nose grip leads work best out of what I tried. I believe Dustybin will also be getting an 8 oz mould in addition to the 6 1/4 & 7 oz namix moulds.

I will be placing an order of 50 long tailed namix leads from Dustybin which hopefully will last till Christmas!

DCA 6oz



6 1/4 oz long tail Namix



7 oz long tail Namix with lead lift

 

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Cracking mate well done I've been trying to get hold of one of them namix uptide moulds for a while now. nice to here they do the job down there especially if used with a thicker gauge wire as i tend to find the softer ones still tend to bend out. Theres nothing more frustrating than the angler next to you struggling through using the wrong weights but many a time you suggest the ones they should be using. I've even gave someone a couple before and they still revert back to a 5 oz breakaway and spoiling your day. I tend to avoid Dungy now during the weekends remember IF A SPACE LOOKS TO TIGHT IT PROBABLY IS
 

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How come you use a Genie clip and an breakaway Imp connector on the bottom? Surley thats more things to catch a snag. Is there a reason not to tie the imp to the main rig body? :g: just wondered
 

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How come you use a Genie clip and an breakaway Imp connector on the bottom? Surley thats more things to catch a snag. Is there a reason not to tie the imp to the main rig body? :g: just wondered
I think he also uses the breakaways leads with the bait clip where the imp is unnecessary. If it is the case you put imps on the leads without bait clip and build rigs with the Gemini links. I don't use breakaways so my clipped down rigs are either with the imp or with the bait shield.

Cheers,
Luis
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
How come you use a Genie clip and an breakaway Imp connector on the bottom? Surley thats more things to catch a snag. Is there a reason not to tie the imp to the main rig body? :g: just wondered
Quite simple really, I fish a variety of venues, so having a gemini clip means I can use any rig anywhere, with an imp or not if using an impact lead or similar. I know it's a lil bit of extra hardware but it saves having to make cod rigs for various venues.

On the night I did the trial I lost a total of 2 sets of gear using 2 rods, anglers either side lost about 10 each, I think nose wires pull through line snags better than break outs but I also need a lead that casts well without flying sideways or tumbling which is why I was interested in the long nose namix, but I wanted to know how well they held bottom, and they performed superbly.
 

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A very good read and article Ray . Without doubt the most important aspect of leads for this venue is the long tailed version of the various leads described. The long tail ensures that the centre of gravity of the lead automaticaly helps to anchor the rear of the lead by pushing the long tail into the sand/mud etc therefore the lead is anchored at both ends.
Breakaway impact uptides , Namix uptides , Gemini uptides , or DCA Home brewed will all work as long as they have a long tail wire in conjunction with the extended nose grips .
Shorties just dont cut the mustard on this venue and in fact can work the reverse by tipping the lead forward from its centre of gravity, so that the short tail loop is an inch or two above the sea bed, they have limited use over high and low water slack maybe, but in a tide-no way !
 

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I agree with Red and Matchman. This winter I've been using long tailed leads exclusively at Dungie and have needed less lead to hold out and have held well in strong tides with 200g leads. Yes the yellow gemini's in 210 are the be all and end all and if you can't hold with them it's time to stop fishing until the tide eases. I've been using big sturgeons leads and they are fantastic (he doesn't sell them, they were a prezzie, many thanks top man!)

I hadn't seen the long tailed namix before but they look the danglies, I like namix for normal fishing and I will move to them when I lose all BS's.

I fished last night, didn't lose any gear at all and pulled in two rigs....THAT HAD NO SHOCK LEADERS ON THEM!!!!!! they were straight to circa 15lb line...ffin idiots!

There are way too many inexperienced anglers fish Dungie with inappropriate gear and I can't see that changing unfortunately, we just need to work around them. (I had one last night at 7lb 14oz by the way LOL).
 

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Some good info here, the long tails do hold better even in breakout form, I often use a long tailed 170g gemini with a black head, which has longer grip wires than standard, with an elastic band or zip tie wrapped around the nose cone to prevent the wires from breaking out.

When the going gets tough I prefer gemini fixed wires, and this is where a 525 type reel comes into it's own, can reel in a truck with it.

However as said even with good leads on the bigger tides, you need room uptide and downtide to get the leads to hold, especially fishing at range which is why I don't fish the busy venues as I can't fish how I want to.
 

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I've been fishing Dungeness for the last 40 years and I've read many pieces about how to approach the venue and what leads to use. Without doubt Dungeness can be a challenging venue and it doesn't suffer fools lightly.

How familiar is this scenario?

You go to the trouble to get the freshest bait you can, you then get yourself onto the right spot, you wind yourself up and launch your bait seaward, so job done, stand back and await the legendary slack liner!

Wrong - your weight trundles off downtide. Even worse, the angler down tide casts his standard 4 oz breakaway over your loop of line going downtide and drags you further down at best, or into one of the tackle snags!

So having got all the ingredients right you need to hold bottom correctly or it will all be in vain. I read with great interest Bricky Lee's thread on the subject, and we should all take note, he isn't wrong. But in reality the minimum amount of lead required to effectively hold bottom will depend on many variable aspects. Natural elements outside of our control such as strength of tide run, amount of weed, size & power of the swells. Then the things within our direct control like main line diameter & size of bait and how far we cast.

Having the ability to cast a good distance brings with it a number of problems, the more line out there the more difficulty you will experience holding bottom.

In my mind this is best addressed by walking along the beach and casting uptide, let the lead hit bottom after which let a a little line and walk back to your tripod let out a little more line and let the tide tighten your line up. Ideally the line needs to be going straight out in front of you so that you are holding bottom uptide of your fishing position. Before you do this you need to make sure you can outcast the angler who is uptide or you will cause endless problems. The amount you go uptide will depend on the depth of water and tide strength.

Remember the size of lead chosen will need to tow your bait out the right distance and then get your bait to the bottom quickly & digging into the bottom with limited skidding. I believe the old school nose grip leads we used back in the day were more efficient than a lot of the modern breakout leads.

I recently fished the point, I used 2 rods and compared various leads, as supplied by Dustybin on this site.

On the first rod I used a classic DCA 6 oz nose grip lead. This worked fine fishing at circa 120 to 130 yards in a moderate tide run.

On the second rod I used a 6 1/4 oz special nose wired Namix. This lead cast slightly better and held about the same as the DCA.

As the tide run strengthened the DCA lead on the first rod started to skid downtide so a change to a 6 1/4 oz special long tail namix lead and it was immediately noticeable that:
1 - the distance cast improved, the long tail meant that the lead flew like a dart, and
2 - it held up in the tide better than the same style lead with the standard short tail.

The tide really started pulling hard and I found I wasn't holding as firmly as I need, so I changed to the 7oz long tailed namix, the result was I held bottom firmly.

Another plus point of this system is that when a cod picks the bait, or livebait, the lead offers more resistance and improved self hooking, by repeatidly digging in instead of trundling off downtide.

Also, fixed wire leads do take a fair bit of effort winding, which is why many opt for break out leads, but on the long tails you can fit a lead lift to help get the lead up in the water and hopefully over the tackle snags on this venue.

My conclusion was that the long tailed namix nose grip leads work best out of what I tried. I believe Dustybin will also be getting an 8 oz mould in addition to the 6 1/4 & 7 oz namix moulds.

I will be placing an order of 50 long tailed namix leads from Dustybin which hopefully will last till Christmas!

DCA 6oz



6 1/4 oz long tail Namix

View attachment 153076

7 oz long tail Namix with lead lift

...super read ray and wise words....for anyone reading this and to those who already understand the mechanics of fishing dungeness,guys who can cast a bait a long way will keep out of trouble from those fishing close by with their lines going all over the shop...like wise those who only lob it and chance it will do ok with a heavier fixed grip..just beware of the weed and surf breaking close in. i have fished not far from the point and denge for 45+ years and have actually seen guys fishing next to me with their terminal tackle washed up on the shingle in front of my position blissfully unaware that their bait is not in the sea lol !!! until i pointed it out u have to laugh....all the rest is common sense bait, hooks etc....... tite lines ray foxy52
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
...super read ray and wise words....for anyone reading this and to those who already understand the mechanics of fishing dungeness,guys who can cast a bait a long way will keep out of trouble from those fishing close by with their lines going all over the shop...like wise those who only lob it and chance it will do ok with a heavier fixed grip..just beware of the weed and surf breaking close in. i have fished not far from the point and denge for 45+ years and have actually seen guys fishing next to me with their terminal tackle washed up on the shingle in front of my position blissfully unaware that their bait is not in the sea lol !!! until i pointed it out u have to laugh....all the rest is common sense bait, hooks etc....... tite lines ray foxy52
45 years - lol showing your age there my friend, makes me feel quite a youngster!

Funny how things go around and come back, fixed wires went right out of fashion with the emergence of breakaway leads, which are fine on most venues, but not in those like dungeness where there is a proper tide run
 
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