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I've seen one of these for sale privately at EssexBoatYards. Didn't say a price though. Looks like a really nice boat. Mean looking flying machine. It had an out drive leg and I'm sure it said something like 340hp on the back. I reckon it would be an expensive piece of kit.

Ian
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I've seen one of these for sale privately at EssexBoatYards. Didn't say a price though. Looks like a really nice boat. Mean looking flying machine. It had an out drive leg and I'm sure it said something like 340hp on the back. I reckon it would be an expensive piece of kit.

Ian
Bob spalding has one with a 420hp yanmar for 21k. Does look like it needs a good clean but i did not think that was too bad for aa 23 footer. Just thought it looked a good boat but not a lot on the net about them.
 
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Make sure you get a builders certificate and full chain of title!

Had ride and why the hell do you need up to 300Hp in a 22' boat?

Insure the first and answer the second and you'll be buying a good boat.
 

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Ive not been in one on the sea so cant comment too much, but the Aquafish 23 is very similar (same length and deep vee) and will do 40 knots with 190hp - as Tom says why would you want 300hp plus in a 23' boat?

I like the look of them, but they do seem quite expensive.

Anyone actually got one?
 

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Would be fun having 300hp!!just looking at the boat reviews,anyone know anything about the fastbass22??never saw 1 before!
 
G

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Would be fun having 300hp!!just looking at the boat reviews,anyone know anything about the fastbass22??never saw 1 before!
If it's anything like the Powerglide 30 (another overpowered planing hull) it will simply fall over on one chine and scare the pants out of you.

That comment is pure speculation though. It may handle beautifully, but if it needs much more than half that Hp to hit reasonable speeds then there is an issue with the boat.
 

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If you want more info, check out their web site
Your question may be answered Tom, the prototype clocked 73mph and I guess that had a large lump powering it. Current ones seem to be fitted with a 165 and that would be plenty.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you want more info, check out their web site
Your question may be answered Tom, the prototype clocked 73mph and I guess that had a large lump powering it. Current ones seem to be fitted with a 165 and that would be plenty.
If all what they say on there website is true, i do not understand why they are not more popular, which is my main reason for asking about them. Seems like the origanal ones could have been overpowered but no one seems to have heard they are a bad boat. I can only presume that it is down to poor advertising and or tiny profits.

the reason i came accross this boat was mainly cause i know there are good boats out there but they do not seem to become mainstream so i spend/waste time looking for them. I like to know what is out there so that when i am a position to buy something like it, i know i have looked at every option. I think a lot of people tend not to do this, which is a shame.
 

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Bob spalding has one with a 420hp yanmar for 21k.
It says on their website that 300hp is the max hp. I know of 38' 8 ton Evolutions that are powered by less than 420hp through a shaft!

Profit margins, advertising and marketing costs etc all lead to loads of boats not making it mainstream like Warriors, Orkneys etc.

When I bought the Aquafish, speaking to Cair Paravel it takes them roughly the same amount of time to build a 23' footer for £30k as it does to build a 30/40 footer for twice the amount and twice the profit.
 
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Adam

That's pretty much the same sort of reason we don't show the smaller boats at shows....
This is just a commercial reason, but the time and effort to sell a 19 footer is usually the same as on a 50 footer. Customer expectations remain the same, commissioning and pdi's etc remain the same and niggles / warranty items will be of a similar level....
but profits are considerably different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
It says on their website that 300hp is the max hp. I know of 38' 8 ton Evolutions that are powered by less than 420hp through a shaft!

Profit margins, advertising and marketing costs etc all lead to loads of boats not making it mainstream like Warriors, Orkneys etc.

When I bought the Aquafish, speaking to Cair Paravel it takes them roughly the same amount of time to build a 23' footer for £30k as it does to build a 30/40 footer for twice the amount and twice the profit.
my bad, 420 is the model number of the engine...it is only 240hp! silly me.

be interest to hear from anyone with personal experience of them.
 

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When I bought the Aquafish, speaking to Cair Paravel it takes them roughly the same amount of time to build a 23' footer for £30k as it does to build a 30/40 footer for twice the amount and twice the profit.
I spoke to Hardy as they still list the Fishing 24, but they now only do cruisers of 30 foot plus - same reason I suppose.

I am convinced the majority of good boats that don't sell well are the result of poor marketing. Look at the amateurish (sorry but it is) O'Sullivan web site (if you can even find it). The HR223 is a fabulous boat, there is one in our marina and looks the top ticket for angling. There have been others that come and go, but if people don't know about them they won't buy them. Even Orkney, by now a well-known brand only turns over £3million or so. I spoke to their MD a while back hoping to get some sponsorship in return for advertising their boats. I was told "we just build boats, we don't do that marketing stuff." Nuff said.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
"we just build boats, we don't do that marketing stuff." Nuff said.
but surely the likes of the jens, arvors and the like is similar to an extent. all the hard marketing work is done by the like of dealer networks which are the drivers behind the brand marketing. The main thing these companies are good at is the supply, and they leave the dealers to create the demand. I would be interested to see/know whether these companies make as much profit on bigger boats as the dealers do. I imagine there would be some increase but surely it is relative. Materials and labour cost for a 23 foot boat are surely considerably less than the likes of a 40ft boat. the marketing may cost the same but surely there is the potential to sell more especially has the market for smaller boats must grow at a faster rate than the larger boats.

If you can build 50 23 footers for instance but only 25 40ft boats the builders themselves would profit as much if not more from selling 50 boats surely. The builder can only sell them to the dealer for cost price + 10-25% to cover business expansion and dividends. So therefore the only reason the dont sell the 50 is it is easier for the dealers to only sell 25 boats and make a bigger profit. So the dealers have tailored a demand to suit there pockets and not the builders themselves.

So effectively all dealers are lazy! and are the cause for such great boats hiding in the dark corners of the world :yeah:

Just thinking aloud.
 

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A vast generalisation, but dealers sell and boatbuilders build. Very few boatbuilders seem to be able to market and sell as well as build - different skills, different interests. Unfortunately a good few dealers can't sell either, but that is another matter. Why have Arvour, 'eau and the rest done so well, when their factories are hidden away in another country? Very good marketing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
A vast generalisation, but dealers sell and boatbuilders build. Very few boatbuilders seem to be able to market and sell as well as build - different skills, different interests. Unfortunately a good few dealers can't sell either, but that is another matter. Why have Arvour, 'eau and the rest done so well, when their factories are hidden away in another country? Very good marketing.
Perhaps it just comes down to poor business sense, and lack of drive from some of the dealers and boat builders. Eg why does the costal rides website not mention the aquafish?

i know Tom has mentioned before you will not become a millionaire from selling smaller boats, but surely you could you just have to sell a lot more which would require more effort.

I spose the companies must make enough cash to stay afloat so perhaps that is all these guys want.
 
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It's actually the other way round.
The dealers do make a living, but the builders have the margins.

The problem with selling smaller boats is that there is only a finite number of customers a boat salesman can "professionally" handle in a year.
I would love to be able to sell 100 or 200 new boats of any size in a year, but my job doesn't stop when the order gets taken (and the sales cycle itself can take literally years with some people). By the point of taking an order, I've usually built up a good relationship with the customer and whilst I do have to transfer certain responsibilities to our admin people and our commissioning team, the customer will always see me as there main contact and will return to me for assistance, questions, advice OR if our aftersales team haven't done something the way they should etc.
Just as an example, even with all of the above, the customer handover alone is a full day of paperwork, boat tour and demonstration followed by tuition and any assistance to see the customer on his way. And that's the smallest boat we produce. Bigger boats can have as much as a weeks handover.

Yes, I bang on about making sure your dealer does a proper job etc, but an individual dealer working the way described above cannot properly deal with 100 or 200 customers per year.
The individual can perhaps sensibly handle up to 50 boat buying customers per year.
If that was small boats alone the company wouldn't make enough to pay the rent and the sales guy would make a tiny commission!

I hope that above doesn't sound harsh, but it is simply the reality.
It's possibly why some of our smaller boats haven't been as widley accepted as certain UK based models.... We don't focus on them.
Those that have taken the time to look over them have usually recognised the differences in build or finish and also appreciate the extensive network for support.

I would love to be able to sell 100's of the smaller boats. As many of you know, I am passionate about them, but I simply wouldn't be able to look after all the customers properly and I'd end up offering as poor support as some other boats suppliers. I don't want to do that.


I have a feeling that the above is the reality throughout the eau dealer network and that will probably trasnfer to other similar boat manufacturers.

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It's actually the other way round.
The dealers do make a living, but the builders have the margins.

The problem with selling smaller boats is that there is only a finite number of customers a boat salesman can "professionally" handle in a year.
I would love to be able to sell 100 or 200 new boats of any size in a year, but my job doesn't stop when the order gets taken (and the sales cycle itself can take literally years with some people). By the point of taking an order, I've usually built up a good relationship with the customer and whilst I do have to transfer certain responsibilities to our admin people and our commissioning team, the customer will always see me as there main contact and will return to me for assistance, questions, advice OR if our aftersales team haven't done something the way they should etc.
Just as an example, even with all of the above, the customer handover alone is a full day of paperwork, boat tour and demonstration followed by tuition and any assistance to see the customer on his way. And that's the smallest boat we produce. Bigger boats can have as much as a weeks handover.

Yes, I bang on about making sure your dealer does a proper job etc, but an individual dealer working the way described above cannot properly deal with 100 or 200 customers per year.
The individual can perhaps sensibly handle up to 50 boat buying customers per year.
If that was small boats alone the company wouldn't make enough to pay the rent and the sales guy would make a tiny commission!

I hope that above doesn't sound harsh, but it is simply the reality.
It's possibly why some of our smaller boats haven't been as widley accepted as certain UK based models.... We don't focus on them.
Those that have taken the time to look over them have usually recognised the differences in build or finish and also appreciate the extensive network for support.

I would love to be able to sell 100's of the smaller boats. As many of you know, I am passionate about them, but I simply wouldn't be able to look after all the customers properly and I'd end up offering as poor support as some other boats suppliers. I don't want to do that.


I have a feeling that the above is the reality throughout the eau dealer network and that will probably trasnfer to other similar boat manufacturers.

Tom
Cheers Tom, that does make perfect sense. Customer service i think the key thing in what you describe. Unlike most business selling items, it is a lot more involved to get it right. Although it does seem like robbing the rich to pay for the poor...not that it is a bad thing as i am poor.

Does this mean if i get 4 people to buy 805 and 900s you can let me have a eau at cost price + £50 for doing the paper work? If i get 8 people to buy large boats do i get a eau free?

:clap2:
 
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Speaking from a point of a person who has had many boats, like to use them mostly for fishing and is not to interested in a "sloppy" soft finish as it were of some of the new models like Arvor etc.

I am about to buy a new (probably used) boat before the year ends and this would be my reasoning, from a pure "what I want, what suits me as fisherman point of view.

1 - A boat no bigger thank 25ft as it is just for me and my son.
2 - The more weather it will take the better, I want to weekend away from home in reasonable harsh waters (B/Channel)
3 - it must cruise at 20 knots, I want to get home in a decent time.
4 - have accomodation for 2, me and the boy.
5 - be diesel, personal prefferance and another reason I won't go into.

Now, the above rules out an Arvor 20 on speed, a 23 on speed, a 25 on price (everyone has a budget) an aquafish on accomaodation, and lastly the awesome, and I mean awesome HR223 due to the very fact that you cannot find one with a decent size "V berth".

Believe it or not, and I am supprised too, that leaves me looking at a used Bayl;iner Trophy (in diesel/as long as it takes the storms) over a HR223 , how mad is that!

Strange world it is.
 
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Cheers Tom, that does make perfect sense. Customer service i think the key thing in what you describe. Unlike most business selling items, it is a lot more involved to get it right. Although it does seem like robbing the rich to pay for the poor...not that it is a bad thing as i am poor.

Does this mean if i get 4 people to buy 805 and 900s you can let me have a eau at cost price + £50 for doing the paper work? If i get 8 people to buy large boats do i get a eau free?

:clap2:
I feel sure an arrangement could be reached....:secret:
 
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