@Helpmaboab The MMO / Defra decided that the authorisation to land bass would go with the vessel rather than the individual. I think the idea was to ring fence the bass fishery and stop extra pressure being put on the stock. It seemed a good idea at first but it failed miserably because there have been a huge number of extra authorisations issued since 2017(??) when this was implemented. I've got the figures somewhere and the increase is huge. Who issued these additional authorisations? Why Defra / MMO. The bottom line is that they "caved in" to commercial fishermen who didn't have authorisation. Yet again its difficult to make this up. Yet again Defra oversaw this debacle.

Something else Defra / MMO didn't appear to take into account was the number of rods being used on a vessel, (usually a maximum of 2 or 3). You could have a number of fishermen fishing from the same vessel and/or using more than one rod each. It would have been easy to limit the number of rods per vessel to say, a maximum of 3. That wasn't done.

The whole thing is a mess of Defra's making. They allowed, through the MMO, a large number of extra authorisations to be issued which has greatly increased pressure on the stock. It has had the effect of doing the exact opposite of what was intended. The increase in landings reflects the increase in authorisations.

Just like with commercial licenses, the authorisations were given out for free but they increase the value of the vessel to which it is attached significantly. Who stands to gain? The guy who owns the vessel. Talk about "Money for Nothing". Its dire.

Is this another example of Defra's world class fishery management? They've screwed up yet again by, "caving in" to the industry yet again. Anyone else noticing a pattern as to who's involved in these clusterf&cks?

 

@self determination I think a major issue is with dual authorisations. There are vessels landing bass in nets and they are recorded as being caught on lines. It enables them to catch an extra 5.95 tonnes a year.
The under ten landing app should have rectified this but it appears it isn't being used to check landings. Only Defra / MMO could manage that.
A solution would be to limit each vessel to just one authorisation.

 

@self determination I think a major issue is with dual authorisations. There are vessels landing bass in nets and they are recorded as being caught on lines. It enables them to catch an extra 5.95 tonnes a year.
The under ten landing app should have rectified this but it appears it isn't being used to check landings. Only Defra / MMO could manage that.
A solution would be to limit each vessel to just one authorisation.

Trouble is if they didn't do that they would just high grade the fish they do catch to try and make up for any reduction. Landing limits don't really work and catch limits would be near impossible to enforce.

As for too many licences being issued, this is a problem in many areas from lobster/crab pots to shell fish licences. Lots of people left the industry due to this and it makes me wonder how those buying their licences are going to turn a decent profit without breaking the rules.
SD

 

I think the 'direct government funding' is from the EA is it not? Not entirely sure but that's my current understanding, but as always I'm happy to be corrected 👍

Edit- tbh an AT rep should pick up and comment on this to give us a definitive answer........again no breath will be held.....does my fing head in all of this to be quite frank 🤯🤕☹👎

 

I'm a member of AT as are several of the freshwater clubs/syndicates I'm involved in. Mostly because of the benefits of Fish Legal but also because inorder to change anything in an organisation you have to have a stake/say in it.....
As you know I participated in the BFMP but will say I've had nothing of real worth in return as yet.....I await the next chapters but am sceptical so far

 

It's my understanding that the AT receive money from the sale of EA rod licences and from paying members. That will rule out 99.9% of sea anglers. Angler apathy is and always has been our major weakness!

 

They also receive direct government funding. Nothing wrong with that but it may influence where they are willing to poke their nose. For me the collaborative approach is a waste of time as many of those they would collaborate with are direct competitors for the same resource anglers are. Hook and line sounds great until you see just how many fish it can remove when done correctly by a decent amount of boats doing just that.

Hell angling charter boats used to do 600kg plus days on Bass with boats full of pleasure anglers back in the day.
SD

 

There seems to be a potential issue with the co-design workshops.
I feel sure that at the outset, Policylab had some sort of a plan as to how this BFMP would all go.
We started off with the, "Lived experience", part of things and followed that up with the, "Collective Intelligence", debate. We knew a little about both of them.
Next we have the "Co-design workshops" but we know nothing about their format. Surely Policylab must already have some idea how they will be arranged; their structure and composition? (I'm not talking about venues here, although I agree with what @Banksea suggests).
Again, I feel its down to the Angling orgs to push Policylab for more information. We would then be in a position to sort out some sort of strategy.
Maybe we need another thread on co-design.

 

Hi all, having lived very close to the sea for nearly sixty years and fished virtually all of them i’ve now been reduced to fishing when i can this being down to having rheumatoid arthritis so sometimes i can barely hold a rod, so small species on a light weight bass rod now does me. I started crushing the barbs on my hooks many years ago as i would sooner lose a fish than damage one but a problem that keeps rearing its ugly head are undersized fish being kept for "trophies" to show the wife, mum, or for the cat!! etc. Living on the IOW "grockle" season fishing is very popular especially in my area West Wight, many times i have visited Yarmouth Pier and seen undersized fish (all breeds) being caught and kept, ( " it’s only one, or it’s his first fish!!) i have also been subject to the " it`s the same size as the supermarket ones ") and on that basis i’ve stuck my neck out and tried to "educate" the catcher occasionally suffering abuse but most appreciate the advice. Social media has caused a lot of problems with the holidaymakers wanting to know where they can fish and "guarantee" catching, HA!!, and this year has been the worst i’ve seen on the Island so the reason i jumped on this thread is surely isn’t it about time school education started to incorporate this into their agenda, start them young and maybe it will help save our stock and even our planet, after all even Commercials went to school...or did they ?
As a bait fisherman on a lure thread i’ll get my coat ...Alan

 

@bigbassman9 &Skidders
The Cornwall IFCA and Cornwall MMO offices are in Hayle looking out over Hayle / St. Ives bay. Every year the netters target the aggregating bass at any time in December / January. Its totally illegal and no one ever does anything despite lots of photographic evidence to show that illegal targeting of bass is taking place. This isn't really needed as it takes place within a stones throw of the offices if the MMO or CIFCA would care to take a look. The amount of bass at Newlyn market is so great that the price drops through the floor. Genuine handliners, fishing sustainably, are penalised as a result.

This was finally brought up, thanks to SOSB, at a Cornwall IFCA meeting.
Both the Chief Officer of the CIFCA and the MMO representative made it clear there was nothing either organisation could do because the legislation relating to the netting of bass had been made unenforceable by Defra.
Defra also repeatedly blocked attempts at EU level to make the legislation enforceable.

They, (CIFCA & MMO), both urged anglers to get in touch with Defra over this matter and this is where the whole thing came crashing down yet again. Nothing happened. In the intervening years the netting of these aggregating bass simply continues and no one does anything. It's no longer even mentioned as we all know its a total waste of time bringing it up. Its down to Defra and their support of a totally illegal bass fishery for nets. The angling organisations simply won't call Defra out and that, in my opinion, is a massive problem. As a result of our failings to challenge Defra we now also have an Defra backed shore fishery for bass at a time when it is illegal to target bass in nets and when its illegal to fish commercially for bass from the shore.
HTF can this happen?
The problem is Defra.

 

@bigbassman9 &Skidders
The angling organisations simply won't call Defra out and that, in my opinion, is a massive problem.

And that is why I won't give them my money. If they want to sit on their hands and pretend it isn't happening, then I'll sit on my hands and keep them out of my wallet!!

 

I do fear this is a battle that will be impossible to win.
The laws are there yes but they are all to easy to evade. Its like the tax system in this country and possibly most countries the authorities rely on the individual being honest.
Yes some do get investigated and punished accordingly but its just a drop in a massive ocean im afraid.
From another angle i have personally and still am experiencing the this and its an absolute nightmare to try to get someone from central government to listen to me. When i do its oh ok leave it with us and we will look into it. Its been 7 year's so far and is till ongoing bloody ridiculous.
Get caught doing 34 in a 30 zone and the fine is on the door mat in a week. Get caught fiddling the fishing system and chaces are nothing will happen after said person gives some pi ss poor excuse.
Anyhoo rant over im off to the pool as its beer oclock here in sunny Turkey.

 

"Commercial fishing is the activity of catching fish and other seafood for commercial profit"
If these guys are fishing in order to sell their catch then they are not recreational anglers but commercial fishermen.

The legislation below also states clearly that it is illegal to fish for bass commercially from shore, apart from the "special dispensation", provided by Defra for illegal gill net fisheries in certain areas.
Bass Fishing Guidance 2022.

 

10 days ago I witnessed a boat with O/B fishing not half a mile from the southern IFCA office in Poole. The bay is protected and no vessel is allowed to fish in it as far as I am aware, must of been more interested in easy targets.
When I first replied to this post I had no idea the pressure the stock is under and through the last 2 months of angling after a rest, Bass fever is in full swing like in the 80's which was the major cause for the stock to decrease dramatically around Poole bay in that decade. The increase in shore recreational ( but plain as day commercial) bass catchers is alarming, All the known hotspots around Poole are now constantly fished by said people. Where are the IFCA managing the onshore problems now the population of shore anglers has increased to levels beyond what I have witnessed in the past 4 decades of shore fishing.

 

Do you know how many of your statements have been published Banksea?

 

I have no idea.

 

I’ve submitted 24 statements so far, mostly highlighting DEFRA’s and MMO woeful fisheries management and failures.

Plenty more to submit since the the list of problems with current Bass regs is depressingly long.

 

The thing about the tackle industry that many/most anglers don't understand is the issue of forward order ie as a retailer you commit (or not) to buying well in advance of stock availability. Not excusing any one. Just pointing it out👍

 

Skegger i was out this morning on a local mark and blanked yet again
Anyhow a couple of ladies walked passed and asked what i was fishing for. I replied hopefully a bass oooo she replied i love a bass if you catch one i will buy it of you.
When i replied im sorry im a catch and release guy she then asked why.
After a 10 minute conversation about how the bass fishing is basically shite in this country and in some difficulty she changed her tone and actually listened.
Conclusion in my opinion its down to education of joe public. Your not going to convince eveyone but you might convince enough. Just a thought.

 

Conclusion in my opinion its down to education of joe public.

I would agree Skidders.
In order to educate the public you have to give them the relevant information.
The RSA sector simply don't do that.
IMHO that is a massive issue.
If you do nothing then nothing is going to change.

Did the Collective Intelligence bit this morning. It was a piece of p&ss. If a technophobe like me can do it then anyone can. Took about 5 minutes.
Submitted a few comments of my own.

 

Hmmm lobbying MPs is a complete waste of time im afraid been there done that. I cant go into detail but lets just say i handed something on a plate with evidence full disclosure and 5 years later still nothing.
Complete utter joke.

 

I posted on here about a month ago about a well known bass lure fishing equipment supplier who was claiming that 2022 was in the opinion of many anglers, the best bass fishing season ever or words to that effect.

Along with others I felt this was hardly helpful what with the Bass FMP information collection starting to kick off. I wrote and voiced my disapproval, making it clear I felt their comment was designed to sell their fishing gear rather than improve the bass fishery which would have brought them more long term prosperity. I also asked to be removed from their mailing list and informed them that I wouldn't be buying from them in future.

They obviously don't read emails from customers either as today another email landed in my inbox. This one claimed, "2022 being one of the hottest summers on record seems to have resulted in good numbers of big baitfish and well-fed bass. Hopefully when the weather cools dramatically next week, the bass fishing will go ballistic". Tomorrow we have the start of the Collective Intelligence section of the Bass FMP starting. Superb timing yet again huh?

I have to wonder if these guys really give a sh8t about bass fishing or is it just profit that concerns them? Don't they understand the two are linked FFS? A good bass fishery is the best gear seller they could possibly have.

Their comments fly totally in the face of just about every anglers experience who has taken the trouble to post on this thread. It also totally undermines the efforts of those who have engaged with Policylab and attempted to portray the true state of our bass fishery.

While I didn't think it possible, they have dropped even further in my estimation. Retailers who depend on the bass fishery for their livelihood ought to be supporting anyone who is fighting for a better bass fishery. If they are not prepared to support us then I won't be prepared to support them. I wonder if they have engaged with Policylab over the bass fishery? I fc&k*ng well hope not.

 

It has been slowly getting worse this way last few years ,still s few spots produce well if conditions are good ,been a strugle with conditions this year again.Plus over 200 seals have taken resideence at one of my marks ,plus all the kayaks and boat activity chasing bass here now.
Gone are the times I was the only one lure fishing here

 

It has been slowly getting worse this way last few years ,still s few spots produce well if conditions are good ,been a strugle with conditions this year again.Plus over 200 seals have taken resideence at one of my marks ,plus all the kayaks and boat activity chasing bass here now.
Gone are the times I was the only one lure fishing here

Had a session northside today, Andy. Not a touch.
Surprised me, as seemed perfect.

Down in Devon last week, and not a touch there either (apart from a goldfish sized one in an estuary). Sister’s ex, who takes tourists out on boats told me no fish were taken in shore, and he had to take them a good mile out. No mackies, nothing.

sad, really. My river is the same. Mostly utterly pants. Not worth fly fishing it. Sometimes, after decent rain, we can get a few, but ….

Hardly worth getting a rod out the bag these days.

 

I'm glad people are starting to see where the real problem is. Much easier to lobby an MP to get the highest earning local fisheries management bod sacked/removed from position than it will be to get any meaningful fisheries management in the short term. Get a few of the head chairwarmers out of their cushy non jobs and it might just get a change of outlook started.
SD

 

That's a good question @smart201.
I think I can give an answer. There isn't any.

Just wondering why there's this sudden rush to check for RSA compliance during info collection for the bass FMP? Is there a connection?? 🤣

Of course there is. Its designed to show anglers in a poor light. Perhaps it will be claimed by the authorities that anglers are taking far more bass than previously thought. No doubt Cefas will produce the science to support that. Those angling diaries may well come back to bite us in the bum but I'll bet we don't hear a thing about the tonnes and tonnes of illegal and unrecorded commercial bass landings.

I think if they keep going long enough they ought to catch someone - even if that person intends to sell his catch and is thus fishing commercially. I think Skidders nailed it a few posts ago. Its absolute bollox.

 

Meanwhile a mate of a mate was stopped out in his boat whilst recreationally fishing for Bass the other night, to check he wasn't taking more than the allocation.....all good there and no transgressions. Apparently the guys were sound and they had a good chat.....

SO WHERES THE ENFORCEMNT WITH THE COMMS THEN.....

Mart.

 

If my local mp who was in the cabinet can't stop industrial waste being dumped in her village what chance we got of getting our voices heard.
Countries turned to shi t im afraid.

 

Its all getting a bit bollox isn't it.
Im lost for words to be honest.
As i have said before when there is fo ok all left them tits at the helm will be standing around scratching their heads blaming everyone else but themselves. 😢

 

Here's yet another example of underhand practices from the authorities.
Defra gives thumbs up to North Eastern IFCA’s dodgy...
This is indefensible. I am at a loss to understand why we don't draw attention to Defra's Dodgy Dealings in the public arena. It needs to be in a place where everyone can see it and not simply tucked away in some small corner of a sea angling forum where it will be read by relatively few.

 

The policy lab debates are the perfect time to highlight the policing failings of the fishery