Hi guys thanks a lot for the info.fished for few hrs before high tide.we tried spinning ,feathers ,with no fish .we then tried float fishin turned out not a bad day with 4 mackies on sand eels .kids were well chuffed .loch long is a shadow of its self these days not sure why .that's the first time we have used sea floats and won't be the last lol .will try the fyne sn.thanks again guys jimi .