[Cameron1983]

I wonder if anyone could advise a beginner....

Ive seen a 2005 Mercury 40hp outboard for sale from an independant dealer, which has had its powerhead replaced. Apparently only did 30hours, until it went and was returned to the manufacturer, who replaced the powerhead. It hasnt been used since according to the dealer, and has 1 year's manufacturer warranty left.

It's asking price is £2500, which seems to be around 2k less than a new engine. Apparently the manufacturer fitted a new powerhead. Without seeing the engine it may be hard to comment, but is this effectively an 'as-new' engine, or does one fault make it more likely it will go again, and hence be best avoided?

Thanks

 

[BIGJYY]

hi,if it's a 4 stroke search for cooling or no power for merc or mariner on here there is a lot of threads on here about it.i'v got a 50hp 4 stroke and it's just happened ot it.all the best jyy

 

[mattyR]

Couple of questions

has the warranty been changed so that it ran from when the new Powerhead was fitted? Only i think that the 5 year warranty is for recent engines...don't think in 2005 they had 5 year warranties...may be wrong though.

As previous poster mentioned...there is an issue with corrosion of the adapter plate which causes a grommet to close up restricting water flow to the head. i've just fixed my Mariner 50(essentially the same engine)..I'd check the warranty covers this concern.

Just a couple of things for you to think about

matt

 

[mattyR]

Hi Paul...the OP stated that "1 years manufacturers warranty left" can't see where it stated that the warranty would be applied from date of purchase...thats why I raised the question. It read as if there was a 5 year warranty from new(2005) and 1 year left(2010)

Matt

 

[Cameron1983]

Ah yes, i see that now Matt. I read it as they were giving a years warranty because of the new powerhead. Must get down to specsavers :laugh:

A good point, and one I forgot to ask the dealer (had thought of it, honest!). The dealer emailed:

"This motor was sold to a sailing club and had very little use, it is a "2005" but experience a powerhead fault, it was returned to the manufacture and had a complete new powerhead (engine) fitted and came complete with ! years manufacturers warranty, it represents half the cost of a new one, and it is like new."

I agree needs clarifying whether the warranty is a new 1 year one (which I presume would be better) or merely the final year of original. Will also ask what caused the powerhead failure. My main concern as a beginner is buying a duff engine second hand, but not keen on £5k for a new one. I thought this may be a good compromise.

Thanks for above replies, v useful info.

 

[Clinker]

A good point, and one I forgot to ask the dealer (had thought of it, honest!). The dealer emailed:

"This motor was sold to a sailing club and had very little use, it is a "2005" but experience a powerhead fault, it was returned to the manufacture and had a complete new powerhead (engine) fitted and came complete with ! years manufacturers warranty, it represents half the cost of a new one, and it is like new."

I agree needs clarifying whether the warranty is a new 1 year one (which I presume would be better) or merely the final year of original. Will also ask what caused the powerhead failure. My main concern as a beginner is buying a duff engine second hand, but not keen on £5k for a new one. I thought this may be a good compromise.

Thanks for above replies, v useful info.

Apologies, but you don't seem to have picked up on the grommet problem mentioned above. Do check it's been sorted and sorted properly on this engine otherwise that powerhead will have to be removed again in very short order - it's about the age it starts to show and it's a time problem rather than a number of hours used problem - affects all Merc/Mariner 4 strokes 40-115hp of that vintage.

 

[Cameron1983]

Apologies, but you don't seem to have picked up on the grommet problem mentioned above. Do check it's been sorted and sorted properly on this engine otherwise that powerhead will have to be removed again in very short order - it's about the age it starts to show and it's a time problem rather than a number of hours used problem - affects all Merc/Mariner 4 strokes 40-115hp of that vintage.

Thanks, had read the earlier thread re the 1998 mercury engine. Is slightly worrying, will def ask about this. Problem is, being pretty new to this, Im not sure I would be able to identify a problem by inspecting the engine, hence the compromise of getting a refurbed/second hand engine from a dealer with some warranty. Would another make of engine be a better bet (not found another refurbed), such as Yamaha, Evenrude etc? Alternatively a 2 stroke?

 

[Clinker]

Would you consider paying 3 grand for an outboard with a brand new engine, new upgraded grommet and a years warranty from Merc ? Same difference, and that's worse case scenario.

By the time you're up to £3k, you're only £5-600 short of Tohatsu 50 TLDI - as well as being brand new (I assume Tohatsu do a 5 year warranty), ligthter, probably more reliable, more economical, maybe quieter plus 10 extra hp.

£3k for a 4 year old Merc 40 with 1 year warranty (OK I appreciate it could only be £2.5k) or £3.6ish for a brand new Tohatsu 50 TLDI - I know which I'd rather have.

 

[Cameron1983]

The latest (having asked the suggested questions, with thanks to previous posts)...

"The warranty is 1 full year (from point of purchase). EP Barrus - (Mrcury) replaced the powerhead, I'm not sure what you mean by 'grommet?', if you are refering to the powerhead gasket, then yes it wuld have been replaced. I think EP Barrus just ran it to destruction in their test tank, but not 100% sure."

Ive looked at new tohatsu engines, and they seem similar in price to other makes (perhaps Im looking at the wrong sites). Im quite tempted by this engine, as its probably better than buying a second hand private engine, and a lot cheaper than a new one.

Any final thoughts/opinions from people with more experience from me in this area would be v appreciated!

 

[Clinker]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'grommet?'

That's a bit worrying from a dealer! - but then I have heard that Merc/Mariner deny the problem exists. Norrie or MattyR would be able to tell you more so you can check it's been done.

 

[mattyR]

Depending on which dealer you use the grommet issue is going to cost more than £500 to be sorted or so I'm lead to believe. Parts only...if you change both gaskets and fit a new pipe come to more than £200.

Local "independants" here charge £40 to £45 an hour...in other parts of the country its a lot more so I hear.

One more point....the grommet in question is located at the joint between the driveshaft housing and the adapter plate. If the Powerhead had been changed its quite possible that they may not even have removed the adapter plate or checked the grommet situation.

After all as Clinker said...they don't even recognise(admit) that there is an issue with this grommet/waterpipe restriction.

It does sound like a reasonable buy at the money and the grommet issue... if it occurs ....may well be covered by the warranty but what would be a nuisance is the time spent out of the water while its being done and what would bother me more is the not knowing if/when you might get the dreaded overheat warning signalling the problem!

If it was me then I would buy the engine on the understanding that the grommet issue is definately addressed before you fit it to your boat.

Matt

 

[ChrisP]

I recently sourced a new 90hp Tohatsu for someone for £5200, I fitted it and then took it to the dealer to be PDI'd.

This Mercury engine is 4 years old now when you sell it it will be dated from the engine number which is on the mounting bracket. ( I am aware there is usually another engine number on the power head and this may well lead to confusion ) The problem with 4 stroke Mercs is well know and is reducing their resale value as no one knows for definate if the double gasket idea works or if it just gives more expansion room for the corrosionand therefore more time between overheating problems. This year or the next should show if it is a cure or just a postponement.

It is a good price if you are handy with the spanners yourself, the repair is simple if you are. If you are keeping the engine it is a good price but if you come to sell it immagine the buyer hearing the powerhead was replaced and is 4 years younger than the leg!!!

This bit also has me worried "This motor was sold to a sailing club and had very little use" why would a sailing club buy a 40hp engine, only reason I can think of is for a safety boat and that would get plenty of use.

Jury is out on this one for me, It is a good price for a 4 year engine without any of the historical problems, you have a year's warranty so the overheating is covered, after that it isn't so hard to DIY, normally shows itself 3 to 4 years into the engine's life so if it has been sat in a showroom a while it may well happen when you try to run it. Pretty sure it will not have been done when the powerhead was changed as there is a lot of work to get the adaptor plate off, can't see them doing the extra to change it myself.

Best advice is to get the whole story in writing off the dealer and a written assurance that the overheat issue has been sorted on that engine. You have something to show a future buyer and paperwork to fall back on if you suffer the dreaded power loss buzzzzzzzzz.

 

[Clinker]

I'm not sure where you're going to get one for £3.6ish, every where i looked they were 5 grand, except Bill Higham, who according to reports will not honour the web prices.

It was at Bill Higham - can't find the ad again now - when I got Tohatsu, I took the best 'boat show' price (NEC not London) to my local dealer - he first said he couldn't do it, then phoned the next day to say he could.

So don't know if you could do this will Bill Higham's prices as armour - perhaps not if it's known they don't honour advertised prices - but if this is the way they operate, why doesn't someone report them to the ASA or Trading Standards?

£5k does sound a lot for a 50hp though - Extreme Marine are advertising them at just under £4k - but that's starting to get a long way from the £2.5k of the OP even if it does rise to £3k if the grommet has to be done.

I appreciate the £2.5k is for a new engine and an old leg, but its used value will based on it being a 2005 engine and my real point was that you're talking a one year warranty verses a five year warranty.

This bit also has me worried "This motor was sold to a sailing club and had very little use" why would a sailing club buy a 40hp engine, only reason I can think of is for a safety boat and that would get plenty of use.

Our local club has 5 safety boats - three of which are in continuous use the other two of which are used occasionally for a larger event - having said that, the 'reserves' are the older, smaller boats - perhaps if a wealthy club has a similar situation, their reserve could be a new engine? - easiest way to verify the story is of course to ask who the club was and to contact them - if the dealer won't say, then perhaps there is a dodgy aspect to the story.

 

[ChrisP]

No way my local dealer could match Higham's price initially, they asked for their price in writing as they are a main dealer for Tohatsu and on paper should be able to match Highams price.

When the question was asked by email the price increased to £5,200 and Highams stated they would PDI the engine pre delivery to satisfy the warranty.

Trouble is you cannot PDI these engines as they have a spider's web of oil delivery pipes any of which can air lock during pallet delivery as the engine is on it's side. The only way to do a true PDI is when the engine is fitted to boat. The local dealer was prepared to sign off on my work fitting it, I wasn't, I took it to them to do the PDI and sign off my fitting to spec, I explained why and they accepted it. Warranty is now sound and absulutely straight.

Highams offered to PDI prior to shipping, as I say I have emails to proove if there is doubt, it is simply not possible on these engines IMHO, it is a sales ploy, one cylinder has an air lock in the oil line and you got trouble, simple as. Will Tohatsu honour the warranty if the engine was not PDI'd AFTER fitting?

 

[ChrisP]

If i was the OP, i'd get some firm prices from local reputable suppliers as a starting point for a comparison. But on the face of it, this engine still looks a good deal to me. It would look even better with some written history from the dealer, as suggested.

Totally agree, get it in writing together with an assurance the overheating problem has been rectified. Bargain even if you sell it on as you now have paperwork to proove the provenance of the engine. If you get the paperwork agreeing to the overheating problem there are thousand on here and wordlwide that will be instructing solicitors tomorow, I will be first, Robyn's Owens, keep the lines free:boxing:.

 

[17839]

I wouldn"t touch anything from Bill Higham with someone elses barge pole !!!!!!!!!!!!!

headlight

 

[Cameron1983]

Again, thanks for the above replies. I will contact the dealer again asking if there is any documentation regarding the repair. I will see what they say about the sail club (I also wondered why a 4 year old engine had only done 30 hours, and was slightly worried that an engine like this could go after such a short period). I think if I get reasonable answers to these I will make an offer. As I'm completely new to this, Im assuming it would be reasonable to see the engine running before handing over any money, or does that not generally happen (its currently in a showroom)?!

Cheers folk