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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Monofilament Line. Does it deteriorate in salt water?:g:

Another thread had me wondering about this. Some forum members are saying monofilament line that is used in salt water, but not abused or damaged in any way, breaks very easily from the effects of contact with salt in sea water?

Line could be used for any period in the sea. A few hours, a day, weeks or longer. Washed, dried, left untouched. Put away in a bag/drawer or left in the open after use.

Your opinions guys?:g:
It would help so we can keep track of who is responding to who, if you quote the post you are replying to. Just click the box "quote post" :)
 

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I happened to have a reel in the shop that I hadn't washed after a trip.
The guy at the counter took one look and said, "you didn't wash that line off did you?" I said "how do you know" he said "look at it it's cracked and brittle all along it's length". He then proceeded to tug on a piece and snap it. This was not the same shop where I bought the line and it wasn't why I was there, I was in getting another reel fixed at the time. He told me to avoid it by washing the line as the line deteriorates if not rinsed.
The line was new, not long on the shelf, their turnover of kit is too high for that and it was their primary surfcasting line that they were selling at the time.
I'll do the test like I said, I'll even take a few different lines with me to test and let you know the results. It'll be next weekend before I'm out fishing, and then I'll test the line a week later with no rinsing and see what happens.

<edit>All lines that I use tend to be premium lines by the way, Sakuma, Stren and the like, not that I'm using Aldi line or owt.
 

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rinsing will only get the salt from the top layers. so in theory the line about 20yds in should weaken.

i have never known this happen. you will however get a crust of dried salt on a reel that hasnt been rinsed.

i have found line as low as 10lb soon becomes brittle after a few sessions in salt but above this should be no problem
 

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By rinsing, I mean I pop the reels in the bath and let the cold tap run on them for 3-5 minutes, enough to saturate the line layers and rinse it right out.
 

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By the way I'd change the title to "prolonged" contact with salt water, i.e. leaving it in the bag until the next outing without a rinse.
 

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By the way I'd change the title to "prolonged" contact with salt water, i.e. leaving it in the bag until the next outing without a rinse.
ahh... well.. that changes things. leaving a reel damp in a reel bag will not only damage the line it will ruin your reel also. i only transport reel in bags taking them out as soon as poss when getting home. even if the reel is rinsed regularly the unwashed bad will have salt on it attracting moisture.

never rinse your reel for prolonged times in lots of water. a quick rinse on the surface from a gently running, tepid, tap is sufficient. too much water or imersion will let water get into the insides of your reel emulsifying the grease and oils.
 

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I'll test it like I said, I'm only going on what I experienced and what I was told was the cause.
I'll even lay out the methodology used to test. I'll simulate having it on a reel.

Watch this space.
 

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I dont have the experiance to comment really, but could any damage to line arise as seawater dries out on the reel, leaving an abrasive layer of salt over the spool? Id imagine that may cause damage?
 

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be interesting to see your test EoinMag
please note whether the samples stay wet & salty for a long time or dry out (& stay salty) quickly , and whether they are warm or cool while being tested (just in case "wet oxidation" could be a factor).

As I recall the World Record conger eel (caught by Vic Evans) was on several-years-old 40lb Sylcast which had developed a "chalky" finish. But we don't know how hard the battle was....maybe it was quite gentle (?)

I do know that older varieties of nylon (nylon6 and nylon66) lost up to about 10% of their strength when soaked in water (fresh or salt) - indeed the IGFA line test still specifies soaking for 24 hours before putting on the Instron tester.

I doubt it matters so much for modern copolyamides and resin-surfaced monos. .


P.S. you would think that any braided lines - including "superbraids" would lose strength from internal abrasion with salt crystals (if allowed to dry out without thorough rinsing) , but I have not seen any evidence of that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
By the way I'd change the title to "prolonged" contact with salt water, i.e. leaving it in the bag until the next outing without a rinse.
Hi No I think the thread title and content covers all the options. Best to let folks give us their experiences and the circumstaces of any issues with the line. A days fishing or a few hours or a few weeks. Lets hear what comes along.
Dave,
 

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I've been thinking about how to do it.


I'll have five samples of each line. I have to look what I have at home, I should have a few various types of line, don't know exactly what yet.

I will get 5 pieces of broom handle or equivalent and wrap cloth around them to simulate the line being on a reel with other line and to facilitate slowdrying and longer exposure to salt water.

I will put samples of line on each broom handle.

One cloth will be soaked in sea water, to simulate being left on a reel with water trapped between the coils of line. I will also soak this line in seawater for the length of a session first.

One cloth I will soak in tap water that I've put through the Britta filter, I appreciate a proper test would be with distilled water, but I can't be bothered to go that far, all the materials will be available to me at home. The line on this one will be soaked in the fresh water for the same length as the session line.

One line will be soaked in seawater and then rinsed and put on a cloth soaked in tap water to simulate being rinsed and left to dry on the reel.

One line will be soaked in seawater, rinsed and then left on the dry cloth on the windowsill for UV.

One line will be left dry and put on a dry cloth as a control.

The duration of the test will be one week, or the time between fishing trips, if yer lucky ;)

If anyone can think of any other simple tests, or any flaw in my scientific method (apart from the distilled water thing ;)).

I've written it all out now, I better do it :p:p
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I've been thinking about how to do it.


I'll have five samples of each line. I have to look what I have at home, I should have a few various types of line, don't know exactly what yet.

I will get 5 pieces of broom handle or equivalent and wrap cloth around them to simulate the line being on a reel with other line and to facilitate slowdrying and longer exposure to salt water.

I will put samples of line on each broom handle.

One cloth will be soaked in sea water, to simulate being left on a reel with water trapped between the coils of line. I will also soak this line in seawater for the length of a session first.

One cloth I will soak in tap water that I've put through the Britta filter, I appreciate a proper test would be with distilled water, but I can't be bothered to go that far, all the materials will be available to me at home. The line on this one will be soaked in the fresh water for the same length as the session line.

One line will be soaked in seawater and then rinsed and put on a cloth soaked in tap water to simulate being rinsed and left to dry on the reel.

One line will be soaked in seawater, rinsed and then left on the dry cloth on the windowsill for UV.

One line will be left dry and put on a dry cloth as a control.

The duration of the test will be one week, or the time between fishing trips, if yer lucky ;)

If anyone can think of any other simple tests, or any flaw in my scientific method (apart from the distilled water thing ;)).

I've written it all out now, I better do it :p:p
Hi Sounds good!
How do you plan to test these samples to see what if anything has happened to them?
You may want to have a look at this thread. A lot of work there. Doing it dry never mind wet. http://www.anglersnet.co.uk/authors/dave02.htm

Let us know how you get on.
Dave.
 

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I'll test by attaching to a spring balance using a palomar knot and pulling until they break.
I'll do this beforehand also and tabulate the results.

I know the scientific method might not stand up to lab scrutiny but I'm happy enough that it'll put it to bed for me anyway.

Oh yeah they'll all be stored in my mustad bag, as they were the first time it happened to me.
 

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I'll work out the minutae of the test when it comes to it, I'll document it all.
I don't have a line testing machine but I think if I do each sample three times or so it'll be enough of a sample to give an idea of consistency or inconsistency in my method.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I'll test by attaching to a spring balance using a palomar knot and pulling until they break.
I'll do this beforehand also and tabulate the results.

I know the scientific method might not stand up to lab scrutiny but I'm happy enough that it'll put it to bed for me anyway.

Oh yeah they'll all be stored in my mustad bag, as they were the first time it happened to me.
Okay but a palomar knot is not a good knot for mono in my experience.

Seems okay on braid though.

I'm fond of the UNI KNOT or the TUCKED HALF BLOOD KNOT.

I'm sure others have favourites they would suggest?
 

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It's up for debate, I think once Palomar is used all over that any problem will be consistent thus the results won't be skewed.
It's the knot that I use on all my eye hooks using mono and it's reputed to give close to 100% knot strength. I've never had a Palomar give out on mono, in fact I've had hooks break before the Palomar gives out, happy enough with it's performance myself.
I am open to suggestions however and when it comes to it I'll possibly even try a few knots.
I think the line it happened on me on originally was actually ultima seastrike but I'm not 100% on that detail anymore but I should be able to test ultima as well, I think I still have a spool there.

I think I may also do a simple test which was something I noticed with the degraded line and I'll try to tie an albright knot to my shockleader with it too and see if I can get that knot to tighten up, I wasn't able to do this at all with the damaged line, that'll be a binary result but an interesting one.
 

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Okay but a palomar knot is not a good knot for mono in my experience.

Seems okay on braid though.

I'm fond of the UNI KNOT or the TUCKED HALF BLOOD KNOT.

I'm sure others have favourites they would suggest?
If the palomar knot has worked o.k. on this brand of mono (you are only doing it with one brand of mono - aren't you ? ) for you Eoin, then use it for the test - after all it is probably easier to tie consistently without being extra-careful than the grinner/uni or tucked half-blood


Alternatively you can do it without knots at all if you wrap the line round & round a bit of dowel/broom handle (so that friction of the wraps is all that attaches it) and pull that dowel with the scales (in a way that doesn't cause it to roll & unwrap the line - of course)

That way you exclude the variable of " if one type of knot is more prone to cutting itself when well-soaked than another "

Don't worry if the results are inconclusive or ( "worse") the variation in test results for one set of line pieces is far more than between samples of line that have been treated differently - we can always try to repeat your test and see what happens to us.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
It's up for debate, I think once Palomar is used all over that any problem will be consistent thus the results won't be skewed.
It's the knot that I use on all my eye hooks using mono and it's reputed to give close to 100% knot strength. I've never had a Palomar give out on mono, in fact I've had hooks break before the Palomar gives out, happy enough with it's performance myself.
I am open to suggestions however and when it comes to it I'll possibly even try a few knots.
I think the line it happened on me on originally was actually ultima seastrike but I'm not 100% on that detail anymore but I should be able to test ultima as well, I think I still have a spool there.

I think I may also do a simple test which was something I noticed with the degraded line and I'll try to tie an albright knot to my shockleader with it too and see if I can get that knot to tighten up, I wasn't able to do this at all with the damaged line, that'll be a binary result but an interesting one.
Hi if you need any lines for your test? I'll be happy to send a couple of different makes.
What BS line and more importantly diameter are you going to use? The diameter need to be similar if using different makes.To make the test valid.
Dave.
 

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Well I don't know either way but it is a surprise to read that something as fundamental as salt water weakening line (or not) isnt well established knowledge/fact in angling.

Maybe some comments from the actual manufacturers could clarify the situation if anyone has any contacts.


Paulie
 

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Hi if you need any lines for your test? I'll be happy to send a couple of different makes.
What BS line and more importantly diameter are you going to use? The diameter need to be similar if using different makes.To make the test valid.
Dave.

I'll get together the different lines I have here. I'll let you know if I need any for testing when I've had a look at what I have.
The test is about degradation of line in with saltwater soakage followed by not rinsing and leaving it stored as between weekly trips.
I will stay with lower breaking strains, casting lines that I have used and am likely to use. I won't be testing high diameter or high poundage lines, nothing past 20lb in any case. The test will always be valid no matter the breaking strain as there will always be a result, i.e breakage. I can work the differentials into percentages and give a very very rough idea of whether or not the line loses strength or not regardless of breaking strain, so it's not 100% relevant if you get me.

RT, I'll be trying different lines and the palomar is consistently good for me, zero line damage thusfar for me, I'll know very quickly in any case by the point of breakage if the line was damaged, I can change the knot if that is the case.
 
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