[mikesands]

While waiting for a service engineer today, I experimented with a short length of light line. I fastened this by means of two weakish plastic ties to the business end of the anchor. One end of the light rope fastened to the anchor warp just above where it's tied to the chain. The other end of the line is fastened to the quick release point of the anchor. See attached pics.
Now when I haul the anchor up. as soon as the main knot appears, I can reach over and grab the light line and pull this over the bow roller. The bottom of the anchor then appears first and it can be lifted in through the hatch, followed by the chain which can run over the bow roller without grinding it away, as the chain is not under load. Works in reverse too for lowering the anchor.
Hope I'm not making a basic error here ...but no doubt someone will shout up if I am
Mike

 

[Guest]

Seems like a good idea Mike:clap3: . Let us know how it works in practice

 

[Salar]

Thats an imaginative idea, but personally, I wouldn't add anything the the business end of an anchor that could increase the likelihood of tangling, and you have created a large loop that is just looking for something to snag round. On clean ground it would be OK, but....
Also, your trip fastening looks very tight - you need a bit of slack between the anchor eye and the crown fixing point otherwise it will not pull and break under load , or maybe you have and it just looks tight in the photo?
My advice would be to keep the whole setup very simple, use the Alderney Ring/Anka Yanka and you will never have to worry about hauling the anchor up under the bow, it will always be hanging safely under the buoy and well away from your gel-coat.

 

[ChrisP]

Your chain looks way too short a lenght to my uneducated eye. I doubt it will counterballance the weight of the anchor in the ring Mike. I wish you were up in North Wales and I could show you how it works, it really is simple but I won't put it into words as my English is not good enough to describe without room for ambiguity and it remains a potentially dangerous technique if done wrong.

 

[mikesands]

Your chain looks way too short a lenght to my uneducated eye. I doubt it will counterballance the weight of the anchor in the ring Mike. I wish you were up in North Wales and I could show you how it works, it really is simple but I won't put it into words as my English is not good enough to describe without room for ambiguity and it remains a potentially dangerous technique if done wrong.

It definitely works Chris - I've done it a couple of times for real now and each time the chain more than balances the anchor in the alderney ring. However, you are right in one way - I realised looking at the photo that the chain running along the length of the anchor tine (?) is wasted and it may as well be rope.
Mike

 

[mikesands]

Thats an imaginative idea, but personally, I wouldn't add anything the the business end of an anchor that could increase the likelihood of tangling, and you have created a large loop that is just looking for something to snag round. On clean ground it would be OK, but....
Also, your trip fastening looks very tight - you need a bit of slack between the anchor eye and the crown fixing point otherwise it will not pull and break under load , or maybe you have and it just looks tight in the photo?
My advice would be to keep the whole setup very simple, use the Alderney Ring/Anka Yanka and you will never have to worry about hauling the anchor up under the bow, it will always be hanging safely under the buoy and well away from your gel-coat.

Salar - could you explain some more please - I'm not sure how a slacker chain between the two anchor fixing points would make any difference. Surely if the anchor is stuck, all the force goes on to the plastic tie at the end of the anchor until it breaks and the anchor is picked up by the other end.
Mike

 

[YAZAMAAN]

i,m not sure but i think salar means the tie wrap should have a bit of play,i,m with crisp chain does look short but if its working and setting anchor ok then i,m sure its fine regards steve

 

[mikesands]

i,m not sure but i think salar means the tie wrap should have a bit of play,i,m with crisp chain does look short but if its working and setting anchor ok then i,m sure its fine regards steve

Hmmm ... OK I can see how a bit more slack in the tie wrap might make it easier to snap with a good solid jerk (either by hand or using the boat). I'll adjust accordingly.
I've only set the anchor twice both times in about 45 feet of water on sand. I let out about 150ft of warp and the anchor stayed put. Mind you the tidal pull doesn't seem to be very strong round here.
Both Times retrieving with the alderney ring, the chain and anchor have balanced. The rusty but of chain is much thicker and heavier than the light coloured - which is one of the problems pulling it over the bow roller.
Mike

 

[alankirby]

Mike, i always splice my rope into the chain.You may find that your ring will catch on that big knot somtimes and not slide over it.
Have a look here, it`s quite easy once you get started.
http://www.bluemoment.com/warpchainsplice.html

Alan

 

[ChrisP]

If you have two bits of chain of different sizes joined to make your anchor chain it will be much more efficient if you connect the smaller chain to the anchor. You are going to get a much more horizontal pull on the anchor and a better hold by reversing your chain.

I would immagine it would make it slightly easier to handle the anchor as well if most of the heavy chain is already aboard when you come to the anchor.

 

[blueskip]

I'm certainly gonna try that one, my anchor does give my bow roller a clout when it comes up, & that chain rattling through the roller cant be doing it any good, I like the idea of pulling up anchor & chain without grinding it though the roller. Point taken about possible tangling, but its a chance worth taking I think, especially if you put quick release shackles on each end of the rope, so that you can take it off on foul ground.
blueskip

 

[Salar]

Salar - could you explain some more please - I'm not sure how a slacker chain between the two anchor fixing points would make any difference. Surely if the anchor is stuck, all the force goes on to the plastic tie at the end of the anchor until it breaks and the anchor is picked up by the other end.
Mike

Sorry if I wasn't very clear. If your chain is too tight between the top (normal) anchor point and the crown end, then the normal pull on the chain will go all the way through to the crown end. The point of a release set-up is that you have a breakable tie holding the chain to the normal anchor point, that under strain will break and only then would the strain be transferred to the crown end, and thus pull the anchor out from a snag backwards. The breakable tie must only be strong enough to hold in normal use, if it is any stronger you will never break it out when stuck. Mine takes only 3 turns of cord on a 23 foot boat! I always allow a couple of chain links of slack just to be sure I can pull for a break when needed. I hope that is clearer!

 

[mikesands]

I'm certainly gonna try that one, my anchor does give my bow roller a clout when it comes up, & that chain rattling through the roller cant be doing it any good, I like the idea of pulling up anchor & chain without grinding it though the roller. Point taken about possible tangling, but its a chance worth taking I think, especially if you put quick release shackles on each end of the rope, so that you can take it off on foul ground.
blueskip

I've attached the light rope to the anchor warp with the same strength plastic ties as on the safety release of the anchor. I did realise that the loop formed by the slack rope on rough ground could cause a nasty snag, but hopefully one or both of the plastic ties will snap and allow the anchor to be drawn up normally. However, in view of some of the other good points being made about the general 'unsmoothness' of my rope/chain/anchor connections, I have now got a bit worried that yet more knots and connections might interfere with the ability of everything to pass through the alderney ring. I'll give it a bit of thought tomorrow down the dock. I like ChrisP suggestion of putting the heavier chain further from the anchor, and also the idea of making a rope-chain splice, but presumably my heavier chain is going to have too big a link size to do that? I also realised that my own suggestion of using rope rather than chain between the end and the crown of the anchor, is probably not a good idea as the rope would get marmalised by rough ground very quickly

Mike

 

[mikesands]

Sorry if I wasn't very clear. If your chain is too tight between the top (normal) anchor point and the crown end, then the normal pull on the chain will go all the way through to the crown end. The point of a release set-up is that you have a breakable tie holding the chain to the normal anchor point, that under strain will break and only then would the strain be transferred to the crown end, and thus pull the anchor out from a snag backwards. The breakable tie must only be strong enough to hold in normal use, if it is any stronger you will never break it out when stuck. Mine takes only 3 turns of cord on a 23 foot boat! I always allow a couple of chain links of slack just to be sure I can pull for a break when needed. I hope that is clearer!

Oh wow ... I see what you mean - the load may be going at least partly past the plastic tie, along the chain and to the crown - in which case I will get repeated anchor slips. Although thinking about it some more are you sure about the logic? Surely as long as the plastic tie is still holfing the chain to the end of the anchor all forces are in line with the normal long arm of the anchor - whether they are being applied at the end or partly at the crown. Surely it's only when the tie has broken and the angle between chain and arm becomes about 45 degrees that the force acts to dislodge the tines from their stuck position?
Mike

 

[SeanP]

Salar is spot on there, the pulling pressure should be all on the cable tied/chain trip not the chain to anchor connection, you need the cable tie to break when pulling straight on the anchor if it get's stuck, think if I was you I would be looking at a new length of galvanized chain to get rid of that link, splicing the rope to chain is a good move as well,
Sean,