did i not say he would do that.

the guy is in the pockets of the commercial sector. he wont say or do a thing against them. too many votes to lose.

i got the same response a couple of years ago from him.

a great shame he is so short sighted.

Golf is starting to look appealing again.

 

In a way I agree with Dale when he says

" the guy is in the pockets of the commercial sector. he wont say or do a thing against them. too many votes to lose. "

but I feel that is only because RSA ( recreational sea angler ) doesn't have a good political identity.

There are many more people and much more money involved in RSA than there is in commercial fishing when you look at the overall spend on fuel, tackle, bait etc, but without such an identity Finnie and Slippery Jack have nothing to worry about.

 

In a way I agree with Dale when he says

" the guy is in the pockets of the commercial sector. he wont say or do a thing against them. too many votes to lose. "

[BI feel that is only because RSA ( recreational sea angler ) doesn't have a good political identity.[/B]
There are many more people and much more money involved in RSA tha]but n there is in commercial fishing when you look at the overall spend on fuel, tackle, bait etc, but without such an identity Finnie and Slippery Jack have nothing to worry about.

I agree totally with your comments on political identity.
What is needed is for Scottish RSA's to write to their msp's and ask them put questions to Finnie about RSA in holyrood. They are obliged to do this by law.

When Finnie realises there is much interest out and not just a keen few then he will have to listen

 

I agree totally with your comments on political identity.
What is needed is for Scottish RSA's to write to their msp's and ask them put questions to Finnie about RSA in holyrood. They are obliged to do this by law.

When Finnie realises there is much interest out and not just a keen few then he will have to listen

I for one will be writing to help try and get us recognised....

Not sure who your MSP is.......click the link below....you can email them...

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/index.htm

 

Just looking at this I discovered every Scottish resident is represented by eight MSPs: one constituency MSP and seven regional MSPs. This makes the Scottish Parliament different from other parliaments where only one elected member represents the local area --- so we get to write loads of letters.

If one goes to http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/index.htm then you can find out who are your gang of MSPs. If you click on each individuals name in turn it will take you to their home page on which is a pointer to contact details eg :: http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/membersPages/shiona_baird/contact.htm and on this page is a contact form.


Perhaps we can organise that at least every MSP gets a letter

 

Just looking at this I discovered every Scottish resident is represented by eight MSPs: one constituency MSP and seven regional MSPs. This makes the Scottish Parliament different from other parliaments where only one elected member represents the local area --- so we get to write loads of letters.

If one goes to http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/index.htm then you can find out who are your gang of MSPs. If you click on each individuals name in turn it will take you to their home page on which is a pointer to contact details eg :: http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/msp/membersPages/shiona_baird/contact.htm and on this page is a contact form.


Perhaps we can organise that at least every MSP gets a letter

Well done mate, I have posted on anglers Net, ardgour, and fishscotland. Are there any others it should be on

 

Hi Ian,
have you tried contacting Richard Lochead , the current chairperson of the S.E. Rural Affairs Committee who have angling (freshwater at present) and also commercial fishing as part of their environmental remit? He has been very helpful to me in the past on angling / environmental matters and I,m pretty sure he would be prepared to raise the matter in the Parliament.

His E-mail is : Richard.Lochhead.msp@scottish.parliament.uk

We really do need to highlight the financial aspects / tourism value of sea angling / tackle sales etc, etc .

It is ridiculous that Mr. Finnie has come to this conclusion particularly in view of the S.E. paper on the worth of recreational angling to Scotland albeit this was freshwater based . However, knowing how the current administration view angling of all kinds I can't say I,m surprised. Sportscotland described angling as a "hobby" and not a sport and therin lies part of the problem in having some political clout.

We need to induce a sea change if you'll excuse the pun not only on the sea angling front but in general angling terms to wake up the Executive.

All the Best.

Paul.

 

It was disclosed this week that the environment agency in england and wales have decided to embark on a major stocking programme of rivers and lakes to further improve leisure angling.They announced that this industry provides employment for 20,000 people and is worth £3 billion per year surely the powers that be should be made aware then of the potential benefits to be gained from improved leisure sea angling in this country ,given the number of people who participate in our sport .

 

Hi Ian,
have you tried contacting Richard Lochead , the current chairperson of the S.E. Rural Affairs Committee who have angling (freshwater at present) and also commercial fishing as part of their environmental remit? He has been very helpful to me in the past on angling / environmental matters and I,m pretty sure he would be prepared to raise the matter in the Parliament.

His E-mail is : Richard.Lochhead.msp@scottish.parliament.uk

We really do need to highlight the financial aspects / tourism value of sea angling / tackle sales etc, etc .

It is ridiculous that Mr. Finnie has come to this conclusion particularly in view of the S.E. paper on the worth of recreational angling to Scotland albeit this was freshwater based . However, knowing how the current administration view angling of all kinds I can't say I,m surprised. Sportscotland described angling as a "hobby" and not a sport and therin lies part of the problem in having some political clout.

We need to induce a sea change if you'll excuse the pun not only on the sea angling front but in general angling terms to wake up the Executive.

All the Best.

Paul.

Hi Paul and thanks for the link.
Ross Finnie has been given plenty of facts and figures about RSA in England and Wales but is still comsidering after 18 months of reminders commisioning an economic survey for scotland

Barry Scholes from the SFSA and myself met with Cambell Gerard recently from SportScotland and Peter Rawcliffe from the SNH We gave them the full RSA speel and hopefully Canpbell understand more about RSA as he is representing us at the Marine park stakeholder meetings. This was another dissapoinrment announced just last week as we thought we had done enough to get in the stakeholder meetings

 

The SFSA and SACN has fought and argued tooth and nail for represention however it is now time that the politicians felt the weight behind these arguments.

votes are the real currency in their world.

Let your MSP know there is a serious issue here and if they do not want do deal with it then your vote will not be to keep them in a job.They know that for every letter they receive that there are many more people who have the same opinion

This is pressure group politics get off the back foot stop defending and start demanding your right to a voice

support your sport and support those that are fighting for it

David McNair

SFSA Coaching Coordinator

PS My letters are off tommorow

 

This is our last chance to save our fishing,I read a report of an inteview with an inshore fisherman on loch fyne who was suffering more than us because of the bully boy trawlers as he was loosing his livelyhood after umpteen generations.We should throw our lot in with guys like this,who i,m sure would be glad of our help as much as we would theirs. 3 MILE LIMIT NOW!!!!!!!

 

See Press Release

 

Hi Ian,
Thanks for that . Having been involved for some years with Angling politics I know how frustrating things can be when dealing with politicians . Rest assurred you are not alone ! We just have to keep banging away.

All the Best,

Paul.

 

Well I just emailed my local mp. Easy, took me about 2 minutes......come on guys.

 

If there is one thing I have learned in the last three months it is the that one government, either local or national, decides on something it does not matter how many complaints are received they will not change their policy.

There has been outcry in Stonehaven on two issues recently i.e. refuse collection and a waste treatment facility both of which involved complaints from just about the whole town and both issues have progressed without change.
Consultations were held on the Aberdeen bypass and the result of that was that the Minister then decided on a route totally different to those issued for consultation and intimated that no consultations would be held on the new route.

All three issues were pushed through on financial grounds thus proving that the views of the voting public are worthless except on polling days.

As I've mentioned before on the forum, hunting has been hammered and some of the most influential people in the country ( Royalty, Lords, MPs etc) took part in the sport and lobbied government but it made no difference.

True sports organisations are well represented in government circles and as stated the freshwater fishing industry is huge both in numbers and revenue generation as nearly all rivers and still water fisheries are subject to liscence, permit or membership dues thus bumping up the income to the sport. It only takes a look in tackle shops arround the country to see where the shops alegiance lies as there are very few who hold a large stock of or are exclusive to sea angling equipment whereas there are a large number of freshwater only stockists.
It must also be remebered that for every pound spent on mail order equipment from down south it is one pounds worth less backing from Scottish retailers and as yet I have not seen many local shops being recommended for larger value purchases thus lessening the amount we contribute to the local ecconomy.

The commercials get hammered both on the forum and the angling press which again is mis-directed. These guys are having their lively hoods systematically ripped out from under them by the EU and yes there will be cases of overfishing and black fish landings but on the whole they are small compared with the pillage that the other EU state's boats carry out around the UK. There is nothing being done to protect them at any great level and that is for what is classed as an industry not a sport or hobby. The scientists providing the information to the government cannot even provide factual evidence as one report issued recently said there were no common skate found around the UK coast which is contradicted by reports in Sea Angler etc.

Perthaps RSA are on a hiding to nothing due to utilising Recreation intheir name as the dictionary definitions very rarely mention the word sport in them, "A pleasant, enjoyable and often refreshing activity done in one's spare time", being the most common description of the word.

Anyway I wonder what we as anglers are actually looking for from the government apart from retaining access to carry out our sport as I cannot see them being able to provide any other benefits due to overfishing as stated above. Individual letters/e-mails to MSP are fine as way of letting them know you are unhappy but there needs to be a degree of uniformity in what is being asked for because everyone has a different view as to what they want to come out of the reperesentation. Perhaps RSA can issue a standard letter for idividuals to sign and pass onto their relative MSPs then as they say "we are all singng from the same hymn sheet".

 

a partial answer

The SFSA is Currently involved in a number of projects involving Sea Angling as a vehicle for social Inclusion
How can this go ahead if we have no voice in the conditition of the primary resource,all forward planning becomes useless.
(this argument will bring other agencys onside as angling is the only sport capable of delivering with ease the measurable incremental growth required to satisfy their masters)

would you assist in organising a football competition if you could not be sure if there would be a football or a pitch available to play on

to say what is the point, and highlight previous failures is a very negative viewpoint.
this is a long term campaign battles will be lost however with everyones help the war will be won

giving up is not an option

 

a partial answer

The SFSA is Currently involved in a number of projects involving Sea Angling as a vehicle for social Inclusion
How can this go ahead if we have no voice in the conditition of the primary resource,all forward planning becomes useless.
(this argument will bring other agencys onside as angling is the only sport capable of delivering with ease the measurable incremental growth required to satisfy their masters)

would you assist in organising a football competition if you could not be sure if there would be a football or a pitch available to play on

to say what is the point, and highlight previous failures is a very negative viewpoint.
this is a long term campaign battles will be lost however with everyones help the war will be won

giving up is not an option

I am glad to fight for things that affect me directly and have sent letters and e-mails on the subjects I mentioned in the original post and have not as yet given up on my views. I am however at a bit of a loss on the subject here as in the last 15 years I have heard and read my complaints on how the sea angling fraternity are treated in that we do not get heard at higher levels but to date I have never seen or heard one all encompassing argument as one group will concentrate on hitting at the commercials another will have a go at the greens then one at the government and so on. There are great numbers of letters published on licences which would then provide an agency with revenue and in turn facilitate visibility due to the amount of money raised but again there are those for and against, and my view is that the licences would just be a further tax that provides no benefit as there will be no re-stocking or enhanced access provided. I even stopped river fishing because I objected to paying to fish for a natural resource. On the other hand the employment increase to police the licence would be huge due to the nature of the coast line but then again the commercial sector is not that well policed (that office is 3 floors above me and there ain't a lot of people there).

In the press release attached previously it is stated that there are 2 million participants raising £1billion in England and Wales which is less than 4% of the population and therefore using the same stats you are looking at two hundred thousand and a revenue of £40milion, which does not take into consideration the amount lost to mail order, compared with 5,000 people in the comercial fishing sector producing £300million.

As a minority group we have to unite with one clear goal which can be fought by all.

 

I have just e mailed my MP and wait with not too much bated breath for any reply or his comments to Mr Finnie

 

I am glad to fight for things that affect me directly and have sent letters and e-mails on the subjects I mentioned in the original post and have not as yet given up on my views. I am however at a bit of a loss on the subject here as in the last 15 years I have heard and read my complaints on how the sea angling fraternity are treated in that we do not get heard at higher levels but to date I have never seen or heard one all encompassing argument as one group will concentrate on hitting at the commercials another will have a go at the greens then one at the government and so on. .......................... big snip ............

As a minority group we have to unite with one clear goal which can be fought by all.

I agree with your frustrations stevief.

Although lone voices will get some attention, and many do what they can, it does need a single coordinated effort to even begin to move government bodies and/or quangos; and there lies, as you imply, the big issue --- who's going to lead it and on what basis.

There are specialist websites like SACN raise issues but there is not, as far as I am aware, a single website setting out what RSA in Scotland is, what it contributes and how to support it.

IMHO Too many cycles are wasted trying to find someone to blame, on another forum it seems any topic quickly goes from an initial discussion on a topic, to an attack on commercials, to a rebut that there is no shortage of fish, to personal attacks, etc, etc.

I haven't seen any effort to come up with and freely discuss proposals which may help the situation without affecting any groups other than RSA.

A simple one for me would be to try and make all match fishing CMR (catch, measure , release) why should fish be killed needlessly;
another, why not organise fish-ins for kids - teach them how to approach fishing responsibly; why not look at working with harbours/councils to create artifical fish holding environments.

None of these are actually really radical, they just need a focussed body.

 

Hi Stefief

I will try and answer your points one at a time

If there is one thing I have learned in the last three months it is the that one government, either local or national, decides on something it does not matter how many complaints are received they will not change their policy.

I accept things don't happen overnight. RSA in England and Walesis now involved in decisions concerning stock management. Defra has made a special post who's remit is to look at developing RSA. The BMP pushed by Ben Bradshaw is designed to develop RSA and has nothing to do with conservation. The tope mangement plan will be submitted shortly but as a stop gap; a Byelaws has been created that bans the killing of tope in the North Eastern SFC Proposals have gone in for three other Sea fishing Committees. These are all angler led. The number of RSA representatives have doubled fron one to two on the SFC's. In England and Wales RSA are considered equal stakeholders.

The commercials get hammered both on the forum and the angling press which again is mis-directed. These guys are having their lively hoods systematically ripped out from under them by the EU

It doesn't have to be an us and them scenario Many species treasured by anglers have no or little commmercial interest like tope, mullett, conger, Wrasse. There are plans to be involved in the stock management of all these species in England and Wales. What is wrong in trying to protect our own interests by trying to get involved in stock management and to increase minimum landing sizes, closure to commercials during breeding times on species like the rays. Schemes like thes are win win situations as larger fish have more and healthier eggs which produce bigger and better fish for commercials and RSA alike

"In the press release attached previously it is stated that there are 2 million participants raising £1billion in England and Wales which is less than 4% of the population and therefore using the same stats you are looking at two hundred thousand and a revenue of £40milion compared with 5,000 people in the comercial fishing sector producing £300million."

You are forgetting the thousands of anglers who travel North to fish in scotland which has the best sea fishing in the Uk. The freshwater revenue ammounts to £110 million in Scotland and I would expect RSA to be about the same.

The income from tourism would rise as fish stocks improve, the commercial landings go down every year as the stocks diminish. Also most of the £300 million you mention is in lobster, prawns etc. and deep water species that have no interest to RSA. The actual whitefish landings in the whole of the UK was only £49 millions last year.

"Perthaps RSA are on a hiding to nothing due to utilising Recreation intheir name as the dictionary definitions very rarely mention the word sport in them, "A pleasant, enjoyable and often refreshing activity done in one's spare time", being the most common description of the word."

This was chosen to differentiate us from anglers who catch fish and sell there quarry. They are not recreational sea anglers but unlicensed fishermen.

There are great numbers of letters published on licences which would then provide an agency with revenue and in turn facilitate visibility due to the amount of money raised but again there are those for and against, and my view is that the licences would just be a further tax that provides no benefit as there will be no re-stocking or enhanced access provided.

The English fisheries minster Ben Bradshaw is aware that he has no chance introducing a license until certain criteria is met; like equal stakeholdership and an equal say in stock management of species RSA are interested in. I would welcome licenses if they were used to develop RSA

The SACN and the SFSA are developing a list of MSP's that have been contacted and details of an standard letter will be produced shortly to be used a guide. Although Individual letters produce far more reaction.

The conservation anglers in England and Wales have been trying to establish themselves for over 10 years and the successes have all come in the last 12 months. Unfortunatley very little has been done in the past in Scotland and consequently we are years behind, but we will catch up.

We need to let the scottish fisheries minister Finnie know we will not be ignored.