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Reg, you were the one who jumped in and responded to me when I was replying to Mart post about issues with landing data and the illegal landings of bass in nets. You jumped in and brought up the AT and told us how they were working on this issue. I didn't ask you to comment and tell us that but as you made that claim I asked you to supply details. Now you seem very defensive and unprepared or unable to give details.

To suggest that I am only concentrating only on what concerns me is completely untrue and totally unfair. You know absolutely nothing about me or what I have or haven't done in terms of conservation over the years. I would suggest that the illegal targeting of bass in nets is something that concerns the overwhelming majority of bass anglers and not just me. I would hope that the AT recognise that is the case too. The introduction of a % to define unavoidable bycatch would sort this is issue once and for all. You claimed the AT were working on this issue. I simply asked for details. You have yet to supply any. Please do so or don't bother to respond.
There is nothing for me to be defensive about, I have given you the email address via PM as mentioned, these will put you in direct contact with the Head of Campaigns so you can here what the AT is doing from the horses mouth instead of mine. You will either use them or not.
 

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Just watched the rest of Seaspiracy and feeling pretty depressed and embarrassed tbh....

The only good thing coming out of this is that Joe Public in general are now waking up to the shocking facts of commercial fishing around the world.

Unfortunately, it seems that even the major players who certify the sustainable fishing logos are tied in financially with the commercial sector, so little chance of changes to the Industry coming from within.


Regarding the AT setting up the online IFCA meetings, I believe it is a step forwards. Having the Cornish one first was a big shame, as nothing to compare with - certainly against other more seemingly conservation orientated groups such as Devon for example - perhaps they have less of a conflict of interest ?

Sam Davis who hosted the event for CIFCA did a splendid job, taking over 50% of the time explaining how well CIFCA did on the limited resources they had, and sidestepped any real questions on illegally targetting Bass like a top class rugby International.....

I don't quite know how I avoided throwing the pc through the window, such was my frustration, but there you go. They certainly know they are being scrutinized though, and maybe it will start to make a difference?

Mart,
 

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Had you discussed this with the AT you would have known the AT are indeed working on this issue and those 100% bass catches you mean was raised direct with the CEO of the Cornwall IFCA during the AT/CIFCA virtual meeting.
There is nothing for me to be defensive about, I have given you the email address via PM as mentioned, these will put you in direct contact with the Head of Campaigns so you can here what the AT is doing from the horses mouth instead of mine. You will either use them or not.
Yet again there is nothing in your latest post enlightening us as to what the AT is doing to put a stop to the illegal targeting of bass in nets, (as you claimed in your initial post which I have included). I hope I'm wrong but I don't think they are doing anything. If they were you would have told us but you seem unable to do that.

We have the same situation this year as we have had in previous years with "unavoidable bycatch" of bass in nets. As a result bass will be illegally targeted with nets again and the stock, sustainable handliners, anglers and everyone else whose livelihood depends on the stock will suffer as a result.

Postscript: I have received no PM from you but I don't need need any. Should I need to, I am able to contact the AT off my own bat.
 

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Just watched the rest of Seaspiracy and feeling pretty depressed and embarrassed tbh....

The only good thing coming out of this is that Joe Public in general are now waking up to the shocking facts of commercial fishing around the world.

Unfortunately, it seems that even the major players who certify the sustainable fishing logos are tied in financially with the commercial sector, so little chance of changes to the Industry coming from within.


Regarding the AT setting up the online IFCA meetings, I believe it is a step forwards. Having the Cornish one first was a big shame, as nothing to compare with - certainly against other more seemingly conservation orientated groups such as Devon for example - perhaps they have less of a conflict of interest ?

Sam Davis who hosted the event for CIFCA did a splendid job, taking over 50% of the time explaining how well CIFCA did on the limited resources they had, and sidestepped any real questions on illegally targetting Bass like a top class rugby International.....

I don't quite know how I avoided throwing the pc through the window, such was my frustration, but there you go. They certainly know they are being scrutinized though, and maybe it will start to make a difference?

Mart,
Sam's answers were poor at best, with regards 100% bass her comment was "well cf do have to earn a living" summed up the CIFCA attitude completely as was her comment on RSA when asked what has the CIFCA done for sea angling. I am personally looking forward to the Sussex IFCA meeting which I am happy to say they deserve some praise for saving our recreational fishery inside the Kingmere MCZ and for the new Trawling byelaw.
 

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Yet again there is nothing in your latest post enlightening us as to what the AT is doing to put a stop to the illegal targeting of bass in nets, (as you claimed in your initial post which I have included). I hope I'm wrong but I don't think they are doing anything. If they were you would have told us but you seem unable to do that.

We have the same situation this year as we have had in previous years with "unavoidable bycatch" of bass in nets. As a result bass will be illegally targeted with nets again and the stock, sustainable handliners, anglers and everyone else whose livelihood depends on the stock will suffer as a result.

Postscript: I have received no PM from you but I don't need need any. Should I need to, I am able to contact the AT off my own bat.
I will let you have the last word as you are boring me, good luck with your communications with the AT, I hope you get the answers you are looking for.
 

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I will let you have the last word as you are boring me
That has to be one of the all time classics. Obviously you missed it Reg but it gave me a good laugh.

I think you deserve an apology. I am really sorry that my explanation, (to another member), regarding some of the shortcomings surrounding landing data, authorisations and how that relates to the ongoing illegal bass fishery for nets, has bored a representative of the Angling Trust.
I, (along with many others), have put in a lot of time and effort into trying to put a stop to the illegal targeting of bass in nets over the last few years. To have that work dismissed out of hand, as boring, by a representative of an organisation which was set up to support anglers is, quite frankly, staggering. Have you any idea how that reflects on the Angling Trust? Perhaps you have so many members that you can afford to alienate anglers like me.

I am pleased that a record of our exchange exists for anyone who is interested in reading it.
 

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Seaspiracy: There were any number of concerning aspects to this. One was that some groups involved in actioning plastic pollution in the ocean were concentrating on plastic straws, (which made up a very small part - 0.03% of the total plastic pollution when fishing gear, which made up over 40% was being completely ignored), were being funded by the fishing industry. If these organisations had concentrated on the real issue, which was fishing gear, it seems fair to assume that the funding would have stopped. The fishing industry want to blame the biggest part of the plastic pollution in our oceans on various other things when the biggest culprit is the industry itself. That’s how corrupt the system is but no one seems to be trying to stop it. Shouldn't Govt be looking into this?

There’s a parallel here in Cornwall. Cornwall Wildlife Trust get funded in part by FLAG (Fisheries Local Action Group). The chairman of FLAG is also the chairman of CIFCA. This guy is a retired trawler skipper and Chairman of the association of IFCAs. The Cornwall Wildlife Trust marine officer is also a member of CIFCA. CWT have recently set up a section on their website encouraging the public to buy direct from commercial fishermen. Trust urges public to support local fishermen by buying local sustainable seafood! | Cornwall Wildlife Trust Is CWT setting up this page in some way connected to the funding they receive from the fishing industry? What the hell has buying direct from fishermen got to do with wildlife conservation? What happened to all the dead cetaceans caught up in nets?

The CWT representative of the CIFCA has recently voted against a proposal to introduce a bylaw to protect undersized bass from netters. She has also been very critical of anglers who have encouraged the IFCA members to support this by-law along with other protective measures. Its a tad surprising when the anglers she has criticised are asking for marine conservation measures and she is the marine conservation officer for the Cornwall Wildlife Trust. Could this dichotomy be due in any part to the funding her organisation receives from the industry?
 

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That has to be one of the all time classics. Obviously you missed it Reg but it gave me a good laugh.

I think you deserve an apology. I am really sorry that my explanation, (to another member), regarding some of the shortcomings surrounding landing data, authorisations and how that relates to the ongoing illegal bass fishery for nets, has bored a representative of the Angling Trust.
I, (along with many others), have put in a lot of time and effort into trying to put a stop to the illegal targeting of bass in nets over the last few years. To have that work dismissed out of hand, as boring, by a representative of an organisation which was set up to support anglers is, quite frankly, staggering. Have you any idea how that reflects on the Angling Trust? Perhaps you have so many members that you can afford to alienate anglers like me.

I am pleased that a record of our exchange exists for anyone who is interested in reading it.
You are fooling no-one and that is why I am happy for you to have the last word
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
To have that work dismissed out of hand, as boring, by a representative of an organisation which was set up to support anglers is, quite frankly, staggering. Have you any idea how that reflects on the Angling Trust? Perhaps you have so many members that you can afford to alienate anglers like me.
It's not just you, I saw it happen to anglers on the Blue Fin Tuna thread. Its a shame educated, informed discussions or debates can't happen without a minority descending into petulance. Maybe that's what's really wrong.
 

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You are fooling no-one and that is why I am happy for you to have the last word
Oh dear, here we go again. I would have thought that you would have wanted to let this go Reg but instead you carry on drawing attention to yourself, the organisation you represent and the comments you have made - although I see your most recent comment has been edited now. That speaks volumes. Obviously you are not prepared to stand by the comments you made earlier and now don't want people to read them. Not a great move on a public forum mate.

I'm not trying to fool anyone Reg. I try to deal in facts - you need to do the same and back up your claim, that you made in this thread, that the AT are working to stop the illegal targeting of bass in nets. I have contacted the AT and they have no knowledge of this. YOU made the claim so YOU need to produce the evidence. Just give us the details. You have ample opportunity to do this and consistently failed to do so. The bottom line is that the AT are not addressing this issue of the illegal targeting of bass in nets. You have misled everyone reading this thread. The fact is that it is SOSB who have done all the work on this and they deserve our plaudits. The evidence for that claim is in the pages of this forum.

Do yourself a favour Reg and just leave this - it isn't reflecting well on you and certainly not on the Angling Trust. The ratings of readers should tell you that. The Angling Trust does not enjoy widespread support from anglers - do you really feel that your comments are helping address that situation?

@Rkphilpot - "Petulant" is an apt description. What I find especially offensive is that the derogatory and dismissive comments about the voluntary work of anglers, made on a public platform, are being made by a representative of the Angling Trust - the organisation set up to represent and support anglers!!!! If, and I very much doubt this is the case, Reginald represents the views of the Trust it's a damning indictment of that organisation.

There's a record here of what has been said, (although I've pointed out that Reg has edited his most recent post), so interested parties can make up their own mind. I'm comfortable with that. Let's hope that's the end of this sorry exchange and we can return to Seaspiracy. This doc has drawn attention to a lot of what is wrong in the commercial fishing industry. Wouldn't it be an idea for angling organisations to cling onto the shirt tails of this documentary and use it to draw attention to things like the illegal targeting of bass in nets within the UK?? Just a thought.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Oh dear, here we go again. I would have thought that you would have wanted to let this go Reg but instead you carry on drawing attention to yourself, the organisation you represent and the comments you have made - although I see your most recent comment has been edited now. That speaks volumes. Obviously you are not prepared to stand by the comments you made earlier and now don't want people to read them. Not a great move on a public forum mate.

I'm not trying to fool anyone Reg. I try to deal in facts - you need to do the same and back up your claim, that you made in this thread, that the AT are working to stop the illegal targeting of bass in nets. I have contacted the AT and they have no knowledge of this. YOU made the claim so YOU need to produce the evidence. Just give us the details. You have ample opportunity to do this and consistently failed to do so. The bottom line is that the AT are not addressing this issue of the illegal targeting of bass in nets. You have misled everyone reading this thread. The fact is that it is SOSB who have done all the work on this and they deserve our plaudits. The evidence for that claim is in the pages of this forum.

Do yourself a favour Reg and just leave this - it isn't reflecting well on you and certainly not on the Angling Trust. The ratings of readers should tell you that. The Angling Trust does not enjoy widespread support from anglers - do you really feel that your comments are helping address that situation?

@Rkphilpot - "Petulant" is an apt description. What I find especially offensive is that the derogatory and dismissive comments about the voluntary work of anglers, made on a public platform, are being made by a representative of the Angling Trust - the organisation set up to represent and support anglers!!!! If, and I very much doubt this is the case, Reginald represents the views of the Trust it's a damning indictment of that organisation.

There's a record here of what has been said, (although I've pointed out that Reg has edited his most recent post), so interested parties can make up their own mind. I'm comfortable with that. Let's hope that's the end of this sorry exchange and we can return to Seaspiracy. This doc has drawn attention to a lot of what is wrong in the commercial fishing industry. Wouldn't it be an idea for angling organisations to cling onto the shirt tails of this documentary and use it to draw attention to things like the illegal targeting of bass in nets within the UK?? Just a thought.
I agree, whilst it's been made evident some of the facts are out of date and some information misleading, it still does a good job of highlighting that the oceans we all share on this one planet are being harvested in ways that aren't all sustainable and undamaging. We can take from it a much more positive stance than just damning it for being a little exaggerated. This is the age of social media, I'm sure as anglers were all partial to some exaggeration 😉
 

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Oh dear, here we go again. I would have thought that you would have wanted to let this go Reg but instead you carry on drawing attention to yourself, the organisation you represent and the comments you have made - although I see your most recent comment has been edited now. That speaks volumes. Obviously you are not prepared to stand by the comments you made earlier and now don't want people to read them. Not a great move on a public forum mate.

I'm not trying to fool anyone Reg. I try to deal in facts - you need to do the same and back up your claim, that you made in this thread, that the AT are working to stop the illegal targeting of bass in nets. I have contacted the AT and they have no knowledge of this. YOU made the claim so YOU need to produce the evidence. Just give us the details. You have ample opportunity to do this and consistently failed to do so. The bottom line is that the AT are not addressing this issue of the illegal targeting of bass in nets. You have misled everyone reading this thread. The fact is that it is SOSB who have done all the work on this and they deserve our plaudits. The evidence for that claim is in the pages of this forum.

Do yourself a favour Reg and just leave this - it isn't reflecting well on you and certainly not on the Angling Trust. The ratings of readers should tell you that. The Angling Trust does not enjoy widespread support from anglers - do you really feel that your comments are helping address that situation?

@Rkphilpot - "Petulant" is an apt description. What I find especially offensive is that the derogatory and dismissive comments about the voluntary work of anglers, made on a public platform, are being made by a representative of the Angling Trust - the organisation set up to represent and support anglers!!!! If, and I very much doubt this is the case, Reginald represents the views of the Trust it's a damning indictment of that organisation.

There's a record here of what has been said, (although I've pointed out that Reg has edited his most recent post), so interested parties can make up their own mind. I'm comfortable with that. Let's hope that's the end of this sorry exchange and we can return to Seaspiracy. This doc has drawn attention to a lot of what is wrong in the commercial fishing industry. Wouldn't it be an idea for angling organisations to cling onto the shirt tails of this documentary and use it to draw attention to things like the illegal targeting of bass in nets within the UK?? Just a thought.
Stop trolling I am not interested, let this thread be about Seaspiracy and not your ego and point scoring .
 

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End of the day, no matter how many like to tout any of it as "sustainable", NO commercial fishing is truly sustainable at all.
None.
Commercial fishing is environmentally damaging, putting plenty of species of fish under pressure that if not for commercial fishing would be under no pressure what so ever.
 

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End of the day, no matter how many like to tout any of it as "sustainable", NO commercial fishing is truly sustainable at all.
None.
Commercial fishing is environmentally damaging, putting plenty of species of fish under pressure that if not for commercial fishing would be under no pressure what so ever.
If not for overpopulation there would be no need to commercially fish.

Commercial fishermen are responding to a demand the populous are making.
They are not the problem.
 

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Let's hope that's the end of this sorry exchange and we can return to Seaspiracy.
Reg, that was in my previous comment. You responded with,
Stop trolling I am not interested, let this thread be about Seaspiracy
It really would help if you read my posts before commenting on them.
For someone who is not interested you seem to have an awful lot to say on the comments I have made. Why, you've responded to every one yet I am the one accused of trolling.
If you genuinely feel that I am trolling you then I feel you need to report this to the moderators to deal with.
 

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I agree, whilst it's been made evident some of the facts are out of date and some information misleading, it still does a good job of highlighting that the oceans we all share on this one planet are being harvested in ways that aren't all sustainable and undamaging.
I think the timing of the release of this documentary could be beneficial for UK angling considering that we have the G7 Summit being held here in the UK, in Cornwall from 11-13 June. Perhaps that was its intention. Fisheries management must surely be a key issue at this meeting. This would seem a great time to ram home the messages put out in Seaspiracy and draw attention to the failings in our own fisheries management system here in the UK.
I am optimistic that the organisations representing anglers and angling will take full advantage of this wonderful opportunity.
 

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If not for overpopulation there would be no need to commercially fish.

Commercial fishermen are responding to a demand the populous are making.
They are not the problem.
Sorry, but this is just rubbish.......

Yes the world is overpopulating, and needs feeding, which DOES generate a continuing demand in Commercial Fishing......

However, is it necessary to catch 2 x 3 times as many fish and convert to fishfood to feed x 1 lot of farmed fish.....NO!

Is it beneficial to catch thousands of tonnes of fish just to convert to animal food or fertiliser - I think not!

Many commercial fishing practices have no control over how many fish they catch, leading to huge amounts of waste and or very low market prices....

Bottom line is, the Commercials, like in MOST other walks of life, will make as much money as they can when they can.

The only problem with this is when its a natural resource that cannot sustain the way it is being managed currently?

This is when knowledgeable people need to come up with solutions, and then Goverments with backbone need to bring in legislation to back up the science and provide a more sustainable fishery moving forwards....

Seaspiracy, although flawed in some places, has already shown that the whole industry is corrupt, from the MSC downwards - and even some marine scientists don't come out of this very well .....

I see the National press are running with this now - hopefully the Public will begin to wake up to the fact that not all is fine and dandy below the waves!

Mart.
 
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