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Discussion Starter #1
I know I have partly answered my own question here but would appreciate other peoples opinion on the subject. From day one I have struggled to tie a shock leader knot. I have tried several different knots including an allbright knot and knot that is a combination of a granny knot on the shock and a uni knot on the main line. My problem is the main line snaps at the knot when I test it. I have a very high failure rate and have come to the conclusion it is due to the knot strength of my main line (Challenge 15lb with a 60lb Challenge shock leader) I put plenty of spit on the knot to lubricate it but still it often snaps. The most annoying thing is it fails more when out and don't need the aggravation of knot failures. I have tested my knots with amnesia line and my 60lb shockleader and they are OK. I have just bought a new spool of line (Ultima) and it appears better but still fails sometimes hence my conclusion of the knot strength of the my other line. Does anyone else have the same problem or can anyone offer advice how to get round this. Will buying the best line possible solve my problem?
 

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Daft as it sounds it could be a duff spool of line !!!!!!!

I used the tournament knot to tie a 12lb main,to a 50lb leader,with no problems....

Recently learnt the allbright knot,and again,with the same lines,no problems.....

Perhaps the more experienced could shed a bit of light on this.......
 

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hard to explain this but here goes when your tying the shock onto the main line,
make sure the line is goin oposite ways

main line-------------> <-----------------shockleader

i used to when i just strted fishing tie them with the line goin the sam way this weakens the knot coz the main line then pulls agaist its own knot in the wrong direction if u get me ?

failing that mate go to neil marcellos website ( the british caster guy) his site is full of step by step pics and that

JaY
 

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rite first of all m8 the line has got a lot to to do with it some will buy and they will snap and some will just slip straight through i find the penn line and shockleader excellent and have very few problems also can i suggest trying a bimmony twist it is a harder knot to get the hang of but once you get the hang of it its great and alot stronger when done properly .
 
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I knot that is a combination of a granny knot on the shock and a uni knot on the main line. My problem is the main line snaps at the knot when I test it.
I am rubbish with my leader knots too, but what you describe above is similar to one I used to use. I always had the same problem until I realised the following:

When you tie the half hitch (the half a granny knot) in the leader line and tighten it, it crimps the mainline and damages it. If you simply pull 6" of main line through after tightening the granny knot and then work with that section instead of the crimped section you should over come the problem.

BUT
See the post above with accruate info from Neil Mackellow's site too.
 

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Challenge line is rubbish! I had a spool to use for coaching, and I tried it. It wouldn't take a decent leader knot, and I tried several different knots. My advice is to throw it away, put it down to a learning experience, and buy a reputable monofil. Anything by Bayer, DuPont, Fuji etc should be reliable. These are not the advertised names, but the manufacturers of the nylon. They sell bulk to the importers, who spool it up, stick a label on, and sell it to wholesaler/retailer, then you and I. DuPont are the firm who invented Nylon, theirs is for me the best, it is sold as "Stren", not cheap, but it lasts, knots extremely well, and is real quality - I tied 14lb to 18lb "A.N.Other" line, and the A.N. Other broke every time. Only one way to find out, try another line until you find one you like, and stick to it.

philtherod
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the replies, you have confirmed my conclusions. Challenge line has very low knot strength and is poor quality. As with other lessons I have learned since I started fishing cheap tackle is not worth it, you might save in your pocket at the time but it will cost you in the long run. Using cheap line has cost me lots of my time especially wasted fishing time when I have been out. I will invest in some quality line and bin the cheap stuff.

John
 

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my m8 used bionix copolymer without a hitch (sorry) for around 2 months (5-6 sessions) - then it just started to snap at the leader knot - he thought he was doing somethinmg wrong and i had a go - same bad result - i reckon some thinner lines must become snappy with a minor exposure to abrasive conditions (shallow+ sandy + tidey)

so i reckon its a balance between thinness for casting - and thickness for robustness

Al
 
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UV light has a huge influence on mono lines.

In addition 5 to 6 sessions is quite a lot particularly if you don't strip off the first 10 to 20 yards after each session.
 

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ultima line or suffix, no problem with them for fishing and tournament casting.
 

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Hi,
Personally, I now use tapered leader line, which can be tied with a normal double blood knot. This gives a much smaller neater knot, which not only casts better and attracts less weed, but if you do happen to hook a good fish and the knot is weeded up, you have half a chance of you or a mate clearing it off whilst the fish is behind the surf line. Downside is price, but depending on the venue, I find the leaders last a considerable amount of time, especially if you strip off the last few feet each time.

Back to the original question though. I used to have all sorts of problems with the leader knot - usually coming undone or breaking, but have not had this for years now. This has been mentioned above already, but worth repeating. Do not tighten up the half hitch straight away. What I do is loosely form a half hitch, and pass the reel line through it, pulling 8 - 10 inches through to give yourself plenty to work with. Tie a uni knot round the shockleader, and gently pull up, not too tight - the knot should slide easily on the leader line. Next moisten with plenty of saliva, and slide the uni knot towards the half hitch. When within 1/8 ", gently tighten up half hitch, but still do not tighten fully. Pull mainline through half hitch, to butt up knots, then fully tighten half hitch - leaving a nice long tail will help with this. Finally pull on the tag end of the mainline to make sure knot is closed, and trim off nice and short - if done correctly, when pulling for a break, the leader connection on the mainline will only just part before the breaking strain is reached.

One other thing - there is a wrong and right way to thread the mainline through the half hitch in the leader line - one way will give a nice in-line knot, the other will try to go off at right angles and be a messy knot - can't explain now, but will be self evident when tying. You need to have both lines running nicely side by side to get the best result.
Hope this helps,
Mart.
 

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Smarts right with the thought of tapered shock leaders but in my thinking completely wrong with how to tie the "standard" leader knot!
When tying it thread the main line through the half hitch about 3 or 4", lubricate then pull the half hitch very tight. Then re-lubricate and pull the main line line through another 6" or so(this is because when you have pull the half hitch tight you have damaged the main line) then tie the uni knot(or grinner) without the damaged part and pull tight. Ensuring its all lubricated as you do so.
Neil (Blackbeard) shows it well in the old Sea Angler Vids.
I now only use the bimini twist as part of my leader knot, only downfall is if/when you pull for a break when snagged up your never sure where the break will come, it could be close to the leader knot or next to the rod! You can loose alot a line if you are unlucky! I usual am unlucky:giveup:

Jim C
 

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i use cheap cr*p line all the time, but it's never let me down. i use it once and throw it away.

i would suggest you find someone to teach you the bimini twist. it's the strongest leader knot you can get. you really have to have someone to teach you rather than try and copy diagrams.
 

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i use cheap cr*p line all the time, but it's never let me down. i use it once and throw it away.

i would suggest you find someone to teach you the bimini twist. it's the strongest leader knot you can get. you really have to have someone to teach you rather than try and copy diagrams.

How do you use this knot as a leader knot ??
I know how to tie the Bimini but at the end of the day all you are creating is a loop with a shock absorber built in, simplified I know but that`s all it is.
So again please. How do you use it as a shock leader knot ? Loop to loop ?:unsure: :g:

Dave
 

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you sort of tie a blood knot up and around the twisted loop, if that makes sense. like i said it's alot easier to show rather than explain.

the twisted knot actually makes the leader knot douible it's strength, so it becomes one of the strongest parts of the set up. i've been using it for years and i've never had the line snap at the knot.
 

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Smarts right with the thought of tapered shock leaders but in my thinking completely wrong with how to tie the "standard" leader knot!
When tying it thread the main line through the half hitch about 3 or 4", lubricate then pull the half hitch very tight. Then re-lubricate and pull the main line line through another 6" or so(this is because when you have pull the half hitch tight you have damaged the main line) then tie the uni knot(or grinner) without the damaged part and pull tight. Ensuring its all lubricated as you do so.
Neil (Blackbeard) shows it well in the old Sea Angler Vids.
I now only use the bimini twist as part of my leader knot, only downfall is if/when you pull for a break when snagged up your never sure where the break will come, it could be close to the leader knot or next to the rod! You can loose alot a line if you are unlucky! I usual am unlucky:giveup:

Jim C
Jim,
See where your coming from - by pulling half hitch up tight, and then pulling through mainline, it's just another way to mine to avoid kinking. I will give it a go though - always happy to try something different. Thats the beauty of this forum, you come on here to be helpful, and learn something in the process !

Cheers,
Mart.
 

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Tie a bimini loop as normal in your mainline but then cut it about 10 inches from the knot. next twist the 2 ends of these together fairly tightly. then tie an overhand knot in your leader line and pass the double twisted mainline through it tie a standard leader knot using only 5 turns. I have found this knot to be totally bombproof and will outperform a long bimini loop to nail knot every time and is also shorter and neater. The bimini loop does help with the strength of a leader knot but the real strength comes from the doubled mainline through the coils of the leader knot, which is where a single strand of thin mainline is easily crushed and weakened on a standard knot.
 
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