[codhead]

errrrrrmmmmmmm WHO?

There is a link to a meeting between Ben Bradshaw and John Butterwith, representing commercial interests, on SACN. I registered with fishupdate.com to get their side of the story, it's also mentioned in this thread on this very site. It appears that also in attendance was someone representing the South West Association of Sea Anglers and at the end of the meeting he stated that most RSAs were against the increase in minimum landing size for bass. Now I may be living in some sort of an information vaccuum but I cannot ever recollect being canvassed for my views on this subject, by anyone from this organisation.

I have e-mailed Mr Bradshaw thus:

Ref: Recent meeting with John Butterwith

Mr Bradshaw

I am seriously concerned about a report of your recent meeting with Mr John Butterwith, regarding the minimum landing size of bass. As reported by fishupdate.com, it would appear that someone purporting to represent the South West Sea Anglers Association, stated that the majority of Recreational Sea Anglers did not agree with the proposed increase in minimum landing size for bass. On that point, he may be correct, the majority of RSAs believe that the proposed increase is too low and an increase to a MLS of 45 cm would be more beneficial to all concerned with fishing for bass, whether they be commercials or RSAs.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no such body as the South West Association of Sea Anglers (a simple search of google would testify to that) and it would be tragic indeed if the views of RSAs were being deliberately misrepresented.

I would appreciate any help you could offer on the identity of the "spokesman" and the body he claims to represent.

Kind regards

Now it may just be me being overly suspicious but can anyone shed any light at all on this organisation or even better, just WHO is this spokesman?

Surely it wouldn't be Mr Butterwith or the commercials trying to pull a fast one would it?

Well would it?

 

[Lands End Tony]

I called Fish update and spoke to the editor.
I asked him to confirm his source which he could not.
He said "We take it for granted if someone claims to
be representing a group". I pointed out that the
majority of anglers were in favour of increases to the
Bass MLS IN EXCESS of the new proposed 40 cm.
I also asked him to call the NFSA and BASS to clarify
the situation.
I said that misrepresentation in this case was totally
unacceptable and that I felt very strongly that the
wrong information was being reported by them. I
pointed out that the DEFRA consultation with over 2000
people responding was by far the biggest one ever
conducted by DEFRA and thats how strongly anglers were
in favour of increases to 45cm as a minimum.

He promised to investigate today and get back to me.

 

[igo.t.crabbs]

dont give up mate...................can any one else do owt?

 

[codhead]

I called Fish update and spoke to the editor.
I asked him to confirm his source which he could not.
He said "We take it for granted if someone claims to
be representing a group". I pointed out that the
majority of anglers were in favour of increases to the
Bass MLS IN EXCESS of the new proposed 40 cm.
I also asked him to call the NFSA and BASS to clarify
the situation.
I said that misrepresentation in this case was totally
unacceptable and that I felt very strongly that the
wrong information was being reported by them. I
pointed out that the DEFRA consultation with over 2000
people responding was by far the biggest one ever
conducted by DEFRA and thats how strongly anglers were
in favour of increases to 45cm as a minimum.

He promised to investigate today and get back to me.

Did he get back to you mate?

 

[Lands End Tony]

Not yet. I noticed the Western Morning News also published a small article today on the meeting and aslo stated that a rep of the South West Association of Sea Anglers was in attendance. ??????

Still dont know anything about this so called group. I will be making further phone calls.

Let you know what happens.

 

[keith n]

wouldnt be anything to do with the cornish fed would it ??
http://www.thecfsa.com/

 

[Ruff Ground]

wouldnt be anything to do with the cornish fed would it ??
http://www.thecfsa.com/

Not as far as I know.

 

[wilkybarkid]

its not the south west sea anglers liason group? maybe.(and no this not a monty python windup.lol)

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...uleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch

 

[Skeletor]

you sure its not the:

Southwest Federation of Sea Anglers

I have found the address for the chief secretary, dont want to post it just incase i'm wrong and he gets bombarded with this matter.
You have a pm Lands End Tony

Mart

 

[wilkybarkid]

Don't joke about this one. Its outrageous that they were even allowed to attend the meeting when Defra have already publicly stated that the only recreational sea angling group they would talk to was the NFSA!!!

I reckon its some smart commercials who have made up the fact they go fishing to try and support their case.

However, the blame in meeting them rests soley with the knumb nut DEFRA official who arranged the meeting - I'd sack him!!!

We have got to complain about this - - -Its just not on - -Come on stop moaning and complain like you've never complained before!!!

Just remember female bass do not even spawn effectively until they are 45 cm!!! Do it for the sake of bass!!

only trying to help..not taking the p1s5..another link..

http://www.westernmorningnews.co.uk...uleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch

 

[Flyguy]

So the spineless f*****s waste a year consultation with the 'stakeholders' bring in a half-arsed compromise of 40cm, which is better than nothing but not much use and then U-turn on this because of a bit of pressure from commercials! What a waste of time, effort and money.

The only glimmer of hope is that anglers unite to the extent they take notice and then we can force the MLS to 45cm...

I like to see them try and bring in licenses now!

 

[dartangler]

I understand the representative of the South West Federation of Sea Anglers has now been identified and I am sure that other bodies such as the NFSA will be responding appropriately in what will now be a damage limitation exercise

 

[musket]

Could it be that the Chairman of the SW Federation of Sea Anglers is one Andy Alcock?

Some talk has suggested that he is an ex-commercial rod and liner.Now running a marine fuel supply business in Weymouth harbour that supplies most of the commercial bass boats who fish Portland race, perhaps some of the charter boats too.

The above is just rumour and cannot be substansiated by the poster-if the facts above are not correct then the said poster apologises for any inconvenience caused.

Can anyone concur with the above?

 

[codhead]

I still find it incredible, though not unsurprising, that DEFRA and the minister would allow someone into a meeting without first checking on their bona fides. It seems clearer to me all the time that this is some sort of smoke-screen from the commercials. If it is and if it eventually turns and bites them on the 4rse, all well and good.

I'm going to leave this for the moment, in the capable hands of NFSA, I think it probably best if we allow one voice to speak.

 

[philtherod]

Has anyone actually contacted the NFSA about this unnamed person pretending to represent sea anglers? If not, would you like me to? The NFSA are the ONLY organisation recognised by government as representing us, so what this person said should be totally discounted as fraudulent by DEFRA...it certainly brings the "South-West Association" into disrepute, perhaps if there are any members of this organisation perhaps they would like to comment here about their representative who took it on himself to falsely represent all of us.

philtherod

 

[codhead]

Has anyone actually contacted the NFSA about this unnamed person pretending to represent sea anglers? If not, would you like me to? The NFSA are the ONLY organisation recognised by government as representing us, so what this person said should be totally discounted as fraudulent by DEFRA...it certainly brings the "South-West Association" into disrepute, perhaps if there are any members of this organisation perhaps they would like to comment here about their representative who took it on himself to falsely represent all of us.

philtherod

Yes Phil, I e-mailed Richard Ferres, he'd already been made aware of the situation and was progressing it with Ben Bradshaw, once he had ascertained the FACTS (rather than some of the conjecture that seems prevalent). That's why I said I was leaving this until Richard has done his bit.

I agree totally, the NFSA should be left to this.

 

[philtherod]

Thanks Codhead, I assume when it is found out beyond any doubt who the person is, then the person will be named and shamed?

philtherod

 

[codhead]

Thanks Codhead, I assume when it is found out beyond any doubt who the person is, then the person will be named and shamed?

philtherod

Looka like he's been outed on this thread Phil

 

[codhead]

Sorry to drag this to the top again but I've just had a response from DEFRA, as follows:

Thank you for your email of 15 March 2007 regarding Ben Bradshaw's recent meeting with John Butterwith. The email has been passed to me to respond as our team has responsibility for Recreational Sea Angling.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the Minister’s recent decision not to increase the Minimum Landing Size (MLS) for bass in April, until he has considered any new evidence available. Perhaps it would help if I explained the background to this decision. On 14 March, a number of individuals with an interest in bass fishing attended a meeting with the Minister as part of a delegation from the National Federation of Fishermen's Organisations (NFFO) & the Bass Action Committee and gave their views on the proposed measures. They made representations on the impact the measures would have on both the stocks of bass and the livelihoods of fishermen, and asked the Minister to reconsider his decision.

The Minister listened to these concerns and committed to ensuring that no new evidence had come to light before introducing the measures.

We will now be considering any new evidence, not already assessed in the Regulatory Impact Assessment which was produced to support the increased MLS. Key angling stakeholders, including the Bass Anglers Sportsfishing Society have also been given the opportunity to present new evidence.

We appreciate this development will not be welcomed by anglers and realise it will create uncertainty for both the recreational and commercial sectors. However, we need to ensure that all available evidence is considered carefully before legislation is introduced. We would like to resolve this as soon as possible.

We will be looking in particular at the evidence and the extent to which discards will increase at a MLS of 40cm. We will be considering the implications of a recent Cefas technical report on the levels of bass discards from the trawl fishery. This report can be found at http://www.cefas.co.uk/Publications/files/bass-trawl-discards.pdf.

We will confirm in due course whether and on what date legislation will come into force once the evidence has been evaluated.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries.
Kind regards
Nicola

I have responded with this:

Dear Nicola

Thank you for responding regarding my concerns, you don't however seem to have given me any explanation as to why you allowed someone purporting to represent South West Sea Anglers to speak "on our behalf".

I have done a little investigating myself and if the person who claimed to represent anglers was indeed a Mr Andy Allcock, then I believe that DEFRA and The Minister have been seriously and deliberately misled. The South West Association of Sea Anglers appears to be a hastily convened collection of "rod & line" bass fishermen. These are in fact commercial fishermen and certainly not Recreational Sea Anglers. Mr Allcock is a supplier of fuel to commercial and charter angling boats in Weymouth and certainly does not represent the RSAs of the South West.

I am seriously concerned that this gentleman was allowed to address the meeting in the first place, especially when representations have already been made through BASS and NFSA. Do DEFRA not check the bona fides of anyone claiming to represent a sizeable body of anglers?

I would like to view the minutes of the meeting between Mt Bradshaw and these gentlemen and I believe that under the Freedom of Information Act, such minutes should be made available. I really do need to chack what else was discussed before either responding to the current consultations, or taking this apparent lax attitude to "expert opinion" further.

Kind regards

I'll keep you updated of any further contact

errrrrrmmmmmmm WHO?

There is a link to a meeting between Ben Bradshaw and John Butterwith, representing commercial interests, on SACN. I registered with fishupdate.com to get their side of the story, it's also mentioned in this thread on this very site. It appears that also in attendance was someone representing the South West Association of Sea Anglers and at the end of the meeting he stated that most RSAs were against the increase in minimum landing size for bass. Now I may be living in some sort of an information vaccuum but I cannot ever recollect being canvassed for my views on this subject, by anyone from this organisation.

I have e-mailed Mr Bradshaw thus:

Ref: Recent meeting with John Butterwith

Mr Bradshaw

I am seriously concerned about a report of your recent meeting with Mr John Butterwith, regarding the minimum landing size of bass. As reported by fishupdate.com, it would appear that someone purporting to represent the South West Sea Anglers Association, stated that the majority of Recreational Sea Anglers did not agree with the proposed increase in minimum landing size for bass. On that point, he may be correct, the majority of RSAs believe that the proposed increase is too low and an increase to a MLS of 45 cm would be more beneficial to all concerned with fishing for bass, whether they be commercials or RSAs.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no such body as the South West Association of Sea Anglers (a simple search of google would testify to that) and it would be tragic indeed if the views of RSAs were being deliberately misrepresented.

I would appreciate any help you could offer on the identity of the "spokesman" and the body he claims to represent.

Kind regards

Now it may just be me being overly suspicious but can anyone shed any light at all on this organisation or even better, just WHO is this spokesman?

Surely it wouldn't be Mr Butterwith or the commercials trying to pull a fast one would it?

Well would it?

 

[igo.t.crabbs]

Sorry to drag this to the top again but I've just had a response from DEFRA, as follows:

Thank you for your email of 15 March 2007 regarding Ben Bradshaw's recent meeting with John Butterwith. The email has been passed to me to respond as our team has responsibility for Recreational Sea Angling.

I am sorry that you are unhappy with the Minister’s recent decision not to increase the Minimum Landing Size (MLS) for bass in April, until he has considered any new evidence available. Perhaps it would help if I explained the background to this decision. On 14 March, a number of individuals with an interest in bass fishing attended a meeting with the Minister as part of a delegation from the National Federation of Fishermen's Organisations (NFFO) & the Bass Action Committee and gave their views on the proposed measures. They made representations on the impact the measures would have on both the stocks of bass and the livelihoods of fishermen, and asked the Minister to reconsider his decision.

The Minister listened to these concerns and committed to ensuring that no new evidence had come to light before introducing the measures.

We will now be considering any new evidence, not already assessed in the Regulatory Impact Assessment which was produced to support the increased MLS. Key angling stakeholders, including the Bass Anglers Sportsfishing Society have also been given the opportunity to present new evidence.

We appreciate this development will not be welcomed by anglers and realise it will create uncertainty for both the recreational and commercial sectors. However, we need to ensure that all available evidence is considered carefully before legislation is introduced. We would like to resolve this as soon as possible.

We will be looking in particular at the evidence and the extent to which discards will increase at a MLS of 40cm. We will be considering the implications of a recent Cefas technical report on the levels of bass discards from the trawl fishery. This report can be found at http://www.cefas.co.uk/Publications/files/bass-trawl-discards.pdf.

We will confirm in due course whether and on what date legislation will come into force once the evidence has been evaluated.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any further queries.
Kind regards
Nicola

I have responded with this:

Dear Nicola

Thank you for responding regarding my concerns, you don't however seem to have given me any explanation as to why you allowed someone purporting to represent South West Sea Anglers to speak "on our behalf".

I have done a little investigating myself and if the person who claimed to represent anglers was indeed a Mr Andy Allcock, then I believe that DEFRA and The Minister have been seriously and deliberately misled. The South West Association of Sea Anglers appears to be a hastily convened collection of "rod & line" bass fishermen. These are in fact commercial fishermen and certainly not Recreational Sea Anglers. Mr Allcock is a supplier of fuel to commercial and charter angling boats in Weymouth and certainly does not represent the RSAs of the South West.

I am seriously concerned that this gentleman was allowed to address the meeting in the first place, especially when representations have already been made through BASS and NFSA. Do DEFRA not check the bona fides of anyone claiming to represent a sizeable body of anglers?

I would like to view the minutes of the meeting between Mt Bradshaw and these gentlemen and I believe that under the Freedom of Information Act, such minutes should be made available. I really do need to chack what else was discussed before either responding to the current consultations, or taking this apparent lax attitude to "expert opinion" further.

Kind regards

I'll keep you updated of any further contact

:clap3: :clap3: :clap3: well done codhead......i and many others are alarmingly intrigued as to how they will respond:clap3: :clap3: :clap3: