Spurdog

5582 Views 119 Replies 23 Participants Last post by David N, May 16, 2007

conger conger

Discussion Starter · May 14, 2007

I have previously made no bones about my opinions regarding openly reporting the locations of inshore pupping spurdog shoals and endeavoured to highlight the sensitivity of this information. Amungst angling circles there are no secrets, and the population of fish in Loch X and Loch Y have been common knowledge for atleast the last 10 years.

However I picked up a copy of the TSF mag today to see the same things being gone over. Another article showing the potential of the spurs avalaible to any longliner willing to have a go for them. The problem is that this loch is one of only a handful of places where these fish can reasonable be targeted from the shore and highlighting this on a national publication is nothing short of foolish.

To pick up on Big-Als comments on the handling of spurs thread last week and the publication of poorly handled fish, this article also shows a decent Sput being held nose tip and tail - surely if your going to have articles in a national press magazine then you should make sure that the correct pracites are being used - this only leaves the sport open to abuse from the anti's. not to mention the damage to the fish.

By now we are all well aware of the presence of the apollo and the devastating efficiency of this vessel, which up until now hasn't ventured into loch Y, but for how long if we're not more cute with information exchange.

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The Skink

· #2 · May 14, 2007

I see your point fully Davie and the report is actually about 5 or 6 months old from last december. The article was ok and nice to see Scotland getting recognition in the mag but the Pose at the end with the nose and tail isn't good. I must admit I normally hold my fish this way but after reading the previous thread will no longer do so. It was a nice fish that shaun got though it was debated about the 14lb claim at the time due to non zeroed scales(nice little cover in the story though). I am not sure but is it possible for the larger longliners such as the Apolo and Gemini to Enter the Loch due to the Bridge?
Neal
The Skink

theguyfulla

· #3 · May 14, 2007

Cullen-skink said:
. I am not sure but is it possible for the larger longliners such as the Apolo and Gemini to Enter the Loch due to the Bridge?
Neal
The Skink

hi neal have you seen the size of boats that go to the quarry to pick up stone ? a lot bigger than the apollo !!:giveup: :giveup:

Davy Holt

· #4 · May 14, 2007

Hiya,

Neal as far as I'm aware it was only the Apollo that hit the loch a number of years ago.. and it's still a shadow of it's former self

that was only one boat.

Sunart had multiple visits from I think it was 4 diffrent boats including the Apollo, if I remember correctly the landings from one visit was just under 4000 Spurs

big-al

· #5 · May 14, 2007

conger conger said:
I have previously made no bones about my opinions regarding openly reporting the locations of inshore pupping spurdog shoals and endeavoured to highlight the sensitivity of this information. Amungst angling circles there are no secrets, and the population of fish in Loch X and Loch Y have been common knowledge for atleast the last 10 years.

However I picked up a copy of the TSF mag today to see the same things being gone over. Another article showing the potential of the spurs avalaible to any longliner willing to have a go for them. The problem is that this loch is one of only a handful of places where these fish can reasonable be targeted from the shore and highlighting this on a national publication is nothing short of foolish.

To pick up on Big-Als comments on the handling of spurs thread last week and the publication of poorly handled fish, this article also shows a decent Sput being held nose tip and tail - surely if your going to have articles in a national press magazine then you should make sure that the correct pracites are being used - this only leaves the sport open to abuse from the anti's. not to mention the damage to the fish.

By now we are all well aware of the presence of the apollo and the devastating efficiency of this vessel, which up until now hasn't ventured into loch Y, but for how long if we're not more cute with information exchange.

:clap3: :clap3: :clap3:

that said article also claimed that the fish was just over 14lb , it was made aware to the lad who caught it that the scales he borrowed on the beach that night were 4lbs out and infact the fish weighed just over 10lbs, when you have a proffesional photographer taking hundreds of shots fish can be made to look larger in glossy prints. i dont know why he had to say it was 14lb when a 10lb fish is still a very good catch. we caught a few fish that night and all were weighed on 2 sets of scales and the scales that weighed the spurdog in question were 4lbs out. i know i was on that beach that night too.

im not slagging the lad , after all fishermen are known for exagerating the size of their catch , but hey dont do it when there are witnesses that will verify that the weight was wrong and to then further draw attention to himself by holding the fish in a manner which probably caused damage to it is just not very professional.

there was an old thread about this at the time .

al

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dale

· #6 · May 14, 2007

Damned if you do damned if you don't.

everyone wants to know where to fish and where's hot yet once they have that information they want everyone to keep quiet.

Shaun hasn't done anything wrong as that particular mark is well discussed on here on hundreds of occassions. in fact i appluade the fact he managed to get SOS tagged on the side.
so what if the scales are out, its called poetic license. for me it was a decent article in an otherwise poor issue.

what really gets my goat is the amount of double standards on here regarding marks. i no longer post catches as you get a pm box full of pleads for where then find the mark touted elsewhere as a new hotspot, full of left litter and rubbish or generally slated for giving out the information in the first place.

as for the longliners. they have know about these areas for DECADES.
yes they do look on here for tips but they will get round to each and every spot eventually.

God knows what you guys who live and breathe Etive will do when they return because the last time it wasn't 1 boat but 3 and they totally decimated the place. 3 days was all it took.

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The Skink

· #7 · May 14, 2007

Your right guy didn't think about those big old boats by the quarry. And as for the poetic licence fair enough but in a National Mag? As al says it was a good fish for 10lbs and I'm not taking anything away from Shaun as his articles are always worth a read.
Neal
The Skink
As with all fishing marks report what you like as I don't think the Longliners police these sites its probably more of when the fish run out they move back to thier old haunts. Uphill battle is one phrase that comes to mind!

conger conger

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 14, 2007

neal, these sites produce live information. the information on the forums is the most up to date avaliable and the longliners use this for info. its more efficent for them to run their test lines where the fish have been reported rather than where the think the fish might be.

The Skink

· #9 · May 14, 2007

Guess I'm wrong then.

conger conger

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 14, 2007

dale said:
Damned if you do damned if you don't.

everyone wants to know where to fish and where's hot yet once they have that information they want everyone to keep quiet.

Shaun hasn't done anything wrong as that particular mark is well discussed on here on hundreds of occassions. in fact i appluade the fact he managed to get SOS tagged on the side.
so what if the scales are out, its called poetic license. for me it was a decent article in an otherwise poor issue.

what really gets my goat is the amount of double standards on here regarding marks. i no longer post catches as you get a pm box full of pleads for where then find the mark touted elsewhere as a new hotspot, full of left litter and rubbish or generally slated for giving out the information in the first place.

as for the longliners. they have know about these areas for DECADES.
yes they do look on here for tips but they will get round to each and every spot eventually.

God knows what you guys who live and breathe Etive will do when they return because the last time it wasn't 1 boat but 3 and they totally decimated the place. 3 days was all it took.

As for the weight of the fish shaun caught, whether he reported it as 4lb or 14 lb is of little consequence. i have no arguement either way.

I totally agree with the posting of reports, I very rarely report on any of my shore trips now for the same reasons.

I dont doubt that the longliners know of these areas where the spurs come to pup, but why highlight the fact? Why make loch Y sound like its bursting at the seems with fish by reporting on various marks, when it is far from it.

I know there are a proportion of guys on here who primarily fish loch etive, whilst Im not one of them, I will be sorry to see the reasonable fishing gone.

bigads

· #11 · May 14, 2007

I don't think the apollo needs any help finding the fish, afterall he's plundered it once already. 4 boats stripped Sunart with out any helps from us.

If he did that 4 years ago, law of averages and spur populations elsewhere means that eventually its population will incrase eventually.

Lines are a mile long with a hook every 6ft, not sure how many lines he works. Lets say 4. That is alot of Loch covered both by hooks and the sheer volume of bait in the water.....thats a big scent trail drawing fish in.

The long liners will eventually return to Etive and do the same again.

Recent reports have the liners heading for sunart.......how many reports have you seen with anything other than doggys? Yet we have a fair few Etive reports, he's not heading for there.......yet.

IMHO....All we do is save him a few test lines.

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Davy Holt

· #12 · May 14, 2007

Hiya,

the problem is Ads the Spurdog are very long lived and very slow growing, a low double figure figure could easily be 30 years old. Not only that they tend to hang about in same sex shoals, so realistically he can wipe out almost a whole breeding population of Adult females in a matter of hours.
Not only are the adult females gone but so is the chances of the place making a reasonable recovery within 10 years.

Yes we are only saving him some time, but why should we help him at all to ruin what fishing we have left ??

bigads

· #13 · May 14, 2007

He knows where they are by putting Etive on a report won't help him narrow it down much. I understand keeping specific spots/areas out of the reports and thats fair enough.

I'd hate folks catch reports to stop, thats what WSF is about, keep specifics out of it by all means and use the PM system.

To pick up on another point about being harrased for marks after a report, you don't have to answer them fellas you can ignore them if you wish. I like reading reports as I'm sure all of you do.

wibblywobbly

· #14 · May 14, 2007

why so much fuss over an oversized doggie,not what id call fishing hauling them up from 200ft all day long,

BIG SPLASH SFT

· #15 · May 14, 2007

wibblywobbly said:
why so much fuss over an oversized doggie,not what id call fishing hauling them up from 200ft all day long,

you dont just get them from the boats.when you hook one from the shore you know about it, its not just a dead weight !!! i think a lot of guys will agree with me here they offer some of the best sport out there!!!

big-al

· #16 · May 14, 2007

wibblywobbly said:
why so much fuss over an oversized doggie,not what id call fishing hauling them up from 200ft all day long,

what u on ?

Davy Holt

· #17 · May 14, 2007

big-al said:
what u on ?

that's his normal type of reply Al.. just trying to wind us up :uhuh: :uhuh:

theguyfulla

· #18 · May 14, 2007

wibblywobbly said:
why so much fuss over an oversized doggie,not what id call fishing hauling them up from 200ft all day long,

ah i see wibbly is having a wobbly again , does it not get boring for you being contoversial:g: :giveup:

big-al

· #19 · May 14, 2007

Davy Holt said:
that's his normal type of reply Al.. just trying to wind us up :uhuh: :uhuh:

uhh one for the igrore list then .

conger conger

Discussion Starter · #20 · May 14, 2007

bigads said:
I don't think the apollo needs any help finding the fish, afterall he's plundered it once already. 4 boats stripped Sunart with out any helps from us.QUOTE]

Thats not strictly true. certain reports were published just prior to the grimsby boats wiping out sunart

the Local boats of which two of them were partly responsible for the sunart, (Davy correct me if I'm wrong on this) always knew of the pupping area in sunart, it was only when the big boys from Grimsby headed in that the local boats done the same, and dare i say rightly so.

As Davy rightly said, all we are doing is buying time, however with the work being done by the SOS, SFSA, guys on here and other forums it's hoped by lobying the repective representatives that we can have the spurs protected by this time next year.

then the only worry is that these guys go after the tope, or even the small populations of comons

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