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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In your opinions, what is the best way to fix the top hook of a pennel rig when using a lightish hooklength? I am worried that by having the line wrapped around the shank, it could get damaged, and then if I hooked a fish on top hook only, it'd end in tears. But I am keen on keeping the lighter hooklength, as its close range, often quite clear water.
 

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In your opinions, what is the best way to fix the top hook of a pennel rig when using a lightish hooklength? I am worried that by having the line wrapped around the shank, it could get damaged, and then if I hooked a fish on top hook only, it'd end in tears. But I am keen on keeping the lighter hooklength, as its close range, often quite clear water.
:fishing:In the conditions you describe I wouldn't use a pennel rig.:fishing:
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Cheers. I should say that due to the size of the baits I am using, a Pennel is required. Does the hook slip when using the tubing?
 

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An old fella once told me to leave the pennel hook free running on the line ( i was using crab at the time). i.e. simply thread your line through the pennel hook eye then tie the bottom hook on, the bait then holds the pennel hook in place. Not sure if this is correct (never seen it suggested it elsewhere), but as he seemed to know what he was doing, i've used this method since.
 

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In your opinions, what is the best way to fix the top hook of a pennel rig when using a lightish hooklength? I am worried that by having the line wrapped around the shank, it could get damaged, and then if I hooked a fish on top hook only, it'd end in tears. But I am keen on keeping the lighter hooklength, as its close range, often quite clear water.
I'm guessing a pennel is necessary due to the size of the bait ? I'm also guessing that you are targeting decent sized Bass also. Say you are using a half side of mackeral, including the head, than this, or indeed other similar size baits, will attract a fair amount of crab activity. This as well as helping to attract bass, will certainly also increase the risk of crap activity damaging light snoods. Targetting decent sized bass with these type of baits, I would personally use heavier snoods anyway (35 lb min) - I have never noticed Bass to be that tackle shy when it comes to snoods, as long as the right bait is presented in the right place at the right time, the tackle is secondary - watercraft is paramount though.

Personally, I always wrap the line round the top hook shank three times, and find this is fine - check the hook shank, and around the eye for any nicks or sharp edges first, as sometimes the odd hook can have a nick that would possibly cut through the line just when you hook that fish of a lifetime.

Tight lines,
Mart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm guessing a pennel is necessary due to the size of the bait ? I'm also guessing that you are targeting decent sized Bass also. Say you are using a half side of mackeral, including the head, than this, or indeed other similar size baits, will attract a fair amount of crab activity. This as well as helping to attract bass, will certainly also increase the risk of crap activity damaging light snoods. Targetting decent sized bass with these type of baits, I would personally use heavier snoods anyway (35 lb min) - I have never noticed Bass to be that tackle shy when it comes to snoods, as long as the right bait is presented in the right place at the right time, the tackle is secondary - watercraft is paramount though.

Personally, I always wrap the line round the top hook shank three times, and find this is fine - check the hook shank, and around the eye for any nicks or sharp edges first, as sometimes the odd hook can have a nick that would possibly cut through the line just when you hook that fish of a lifetime.

Tight lines,
Mart.
Thanks for that. Interesting stuff. On a couple of my marks, the only crab activity I get seem to be from gigantic spider crabs that get tangled up. The bait comes back untouched (if no bites) 9 times out of 10. Do you think that if a bass comes across a bunch of decent size crabs pecking at the bait, it'll bully them away from it and take it? Would be interesting to see what happens.

I have one spot that I can sit on some rocks 20ft above the water and watch the fish follow in the flood in 2ft of water. They seem so sensitive to anything unusual, thats why I am trying to fish with a little more finesse and keep visibility of rig down to a minimum (flouro etc). I dont want to hook a heavy fish on the top hook, and have it come unravelled and slide down against the knot on the bottom hook. I m not sure how long the knot would last with that kind of pressure.
 

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No need for tubing, 3/4 twist's should be enough - if fishing light line 20lb/under - you could put 5 twists on the pennel hook to lock into position!!!

I've caught double figure shore caught smoothies which have been hooked only by the pennel hook (bait used was crab). The spare crab 'below' the pennel hook which sits on the actual tied hook, acts as a cushion to the knot. Same goes for other baits used, any fish hooked by the pennel hook, will cause a bunching effect of the bait by the tied knot, and wont damage it!!!
 

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Hi there SLEEP 1981,

I understand exactly what you mean. I use the silicon tube as described by Cascars for large baits when boat fishing. I sometimes like to attach live baits like sandeels and other small fish using a pennel tackle. I tie the first hook like a spade end hook and then tie the second (bottom) hook normally.If you are worried that the knot might slip up the hook shank and be damaged by the eye, just put a small piece of silicone tubing on the shank before you tie the spade end knot. Another option is to tie a loop in the trailing end after you have tied the top hook. Take a look at the knot that is normally used to hold the feathers on a mackerel trace and you will see what I mean. They do not slip!

Charlie.
 

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The best way I've found is to bend the eye on the top hook upwards and fix in place with a short lenth of silicon tubing (either 1mm or 1.5mm depending on the hook size) this way, the line runs neatly along the back of the shank with no kinks in the line... some hook patterns will bend easier than others and some can't be bent at all without snapping... some can be bent cold and others will need to be heated up first.

For hounds, cod, bass, rays etc, I generally use Kamasan short shanks (B940S) and these can be heated up and bent quite easily on a gas stove... heat up the eye until it glows orange and then gently bend up to about a 45 degree angle with a pair of pliers... you may get the occasional hook snap when bending, but I've never had one snap on a fish.

Bronze O'shaunessy's can usually be bent cold up to a 7/0 (maybe even 8/0's if you have very strong hands and a really good grip!) as can Sakuma Manta's in 6/0 - 8/0 sizes... Cox & Rawle Uptide extras can be bent cold in size 6/0 only as all other sizes snap whether you heat them or not.

It works better if the top hook is one size smaller than the main hook, then the hook points will sit neatly in line with each other and the top hook won't look top heavy.

Its a shame the mustad viking pennel hooks have the eye turned down, otherwise these would be a good choice... bit of a bad design that, I think, the gape width is reduced and the line doesn't sit neatly along the shank!... such a simple modification to an upturned eye would make this an ideal hook.
 

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Thanks for that. Interesting stuff. On a couple of my marks, the only crab activity I get seem to be from gigantic spider crabs that get tangled up. The bait comes back untouched (if no bites) 9 times out of 10. Do you think that if a bass comes across a bunch of decent size crabs pecking at the bait, it'll bully them away from it and take it? Would be interesting to see what happens.

I have one spot that I can sit on some rocks 20ft above the water and watch the fish follow in the flood in 2ft of water. They seem so sensitive to anything unusual, thats why I am trying to fish with a little more finesse and keep visibility of rig down to a minimum (flouro etc). I dont want to hook a heavy fish on the top hook, and have it come unravelled and slide down against the knot on the bottom hook. I m not sure how long the knot would last with that kind of pressure.
Sleep,
Interesting about the large spiders - not too sure really whether feeding Bass would move them on or not - but you are in the best position to find out and report back maybe ?

Certainly normal crab activity will cease once the bass move in on a mark. Spiders on the mark definately point to heavier snood b/s - if a bass does push them away, I guess it would have to be a fair size, and you would not want to hook a biggie only to find that a spider had damaged the snood first.

The top hook sliding down to the bottom has never been a problem to me, and will support a much heavier weight than a record bass could muster - obviously as long as knots and line are undamaged, and the fish is played and not hauled out. Incidentally, wrapping the line round the shank of the top hook works on normal patterns, the turned up / down eyes will slip if this is done on them - they are best used with tubing, but to be honest, I find this more bother, and more likely to slip.

One more thing - you say you are twenty feet up. Are you in sillouette, or covered by a background of rocks? Bass in a couple of foot of water are usually very finicky, and will know you are there before you know they know (if you know what I mean). Have you fished this mark at night ?

Mart.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thats true about the spiders. I am not a fan of trying to untangle one of them at night. Some of them are huge! Its only the one place I go where the spiders are a problem, and its a deeper snaggy place so the tackle tends to get stepped up anyway. The place I can go to see the Bass come in is accessible by basically sliding down some very steep rocks. I am not framed against the sky, in fact I am normally lying down with rock behind me also. I must add that its only on a LARGE flooding tide just as the sun is going down that I see fish, and even then sometimes they dont even turn up. Its a very very difficult place to get a bait into the water and be able to land a fish though. I wouldnt try it at night as its hard enough by daylight!
 

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We get a lot of trouble with big spiders, they dont just steal baits they seem to 'crimp' snoods, flattening the line or just cut the hooks off. The big ones are hard to get moving and often drag you into snags.
Anyway getting back to the pennels I always leave the top hook sliding free. When I bait up I use the bottom hook only, then I secure the bait firmly with elastic. then I slide the top hook down to meet the bait, wind it around the snood line a couple of times and then fix it through the bait.
This seems to work for me on all baits from lug to crab, sandeel, squid and mackerel.
 

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How about tying a loop in the end of your snood cutting it to give two unequal lengths then tie each of your pennel hooks on to a length they then are fixed (shouldn,t be a prob with regular sized squids) and won,t have any prob with hooks slipping with a little trial and error you should be able to get the hooks the perfect distance apart ,problem solved
 

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No need for tubing, 3/4 twist's should be enough - if fishing light line 20lb/under - you could put 5 twists on the pennel hook to lock into position!!!

I've caught double figure shore caught smoothies which have been hooked only by the pennel hook (bait used was crab). The spare crab 'below' the pennel hook which sits on the actual tied hook, acts as a cushion to the knot. Same goes for other baits used, any fish hooked by the pennel hook, will cause a bunching effect of the bait by the tied knot, and wont damage it!!!
I agree with browny, 4 or 5 turns around the shank will be fine, I always use this method, especially when fishing for big smuts and have never had troube with it breaking or wearing the snood. and 95% of the fish always take the pennel hook.

Or if you can be bothered, the best way is to snell the top hook, using the same knot that you use for tying stop knots, Keeps it very tidy and never slips!
 
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