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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, does anyone know what the laws are regarding selling fish caught off a boat that uses sails and not an engine? I looked on DEFRA website and it says under the notes about commercial fishing licenses that boats that don't have engines i.e oars or sail don't require a license. Obviously when at sea an outboard will be on the boat in case of an emergency as a safety measure only which could be stowed away in the cabin.
I plan to hit the sand banks for Bass, Pollock and the odd Turbot as well as drop a few pots and sell onto locals.

As this is a bit of a grey area i would appreciate any opinions or facts from anyone.

Cheers in advance!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Cheers for that, even though it's not answered on that thread i have posted a question on it as the guys posting seem to be clued up on the subject!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Sharpshooter, i'll contact Fisheries and see what they say however it'll be interesting to call a couple of offices and see if the answers vary at all!

If they say "No engine allowed onboard" i will be pretty surprised, around here you need to be 5-7 miles out to catch anything decent and not even being allowed a small outboard stored in the cabin for a back up should something go wrong is just crazy.......then again have any of these rule makers ever set foot on a boat before :whistling
 

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Thanks Sharpshooter, i'll contact Fisheries and see what they say however it'll be interesting to call a couple of offices and see if the answers vary at all!

If they say "No engine allowed onboard" i will be pretty surprised, around here you need to be 5-7 miles out to catch anything decent and not even being allowed a small outboard stored in the cabin for a back up should something go wrong is just crazy.......then again have any of these rule makers ever set foot on a boat before :whistling
Just out of curiousity matman what sailing boat was you thinking of using m8....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've got a Sea Wych, it hasn't got the biggest platform at the back but fine for me and my retired dad to sit with a couple of rods.

I'm not looking to catch loads, just enough for personal consumption then perhaps 10-20KG to neighbours etc. Certainly not a full scale commercial outfit!
 

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I've got a Sea Wych, it hasn't got the biggest platform at the back but fine for me and my retired dad to sit with a couple of rods.

I'm not looking to catch loads, just enough for personal consumption then perhaps 10-20KG to neighbours etc. Certainly not a full scale commercial outfit!
If its only going to your neighbours why not barter with them???? Say one of your neighbours grows vegetables,you could swap a fish or two for a bag of nice homegrown veg???? Just an idea???
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Good idea but none of my neighbours own a brewery or an off license :)

Even though i'm not planning a big commercial thing it would still be nice to earn a few beer tokens out of it without breaking the law.
 

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Good idea but none of my neighbours own a brewery or an off license :)

Even though i'm not planning a big commercial thing it would still be nice to earn a few beer tokens out of it without breaking the law.
I hope you do well mate.
 

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Hi, does anyone know what the laws are regarding selling fish caught off a boat that uses sails and not an engine? I looked on DEFRA website and it says under the notes about commercial fishing licenses that boats that don't have engines i.e oars or sail don't require a license. Obviously when at sea an outboard will be on the boat in case of an emergency as a safety measure only which could be stowed away in the cabin.
I plan to hit the sand banks for Bass, Pollock and the odd Turbot as well as drop a few pots and sell onto locals.

As this is a bit of a grey area i would appreciate any opinions or facts from anyone.

Cheers in advance!
:roll1:The "no engines" rule is because Magna Carta allows us all the right to catch and sell fish but Defra and MAFF before them obviously don't want us all selling our catch, so because engines hadn't been invented when Magna Carta gave us the right, those that make the rules decided that engines didn't come under Magna Carta so you can't use them if you sell boat caught fish. If you have an engine onboard, it could be argued that you could be using it. MAFF, Defra, don't like anyone, except licensed commercial boats selling their catch, so don't expect a straightforward answer. They told me once that "it was a grey area" for the rules on selling shore caught fish. MAFF don't have "grey areas" so it was an obvious attempt to avoid telling me it was legal.:roll1:
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
NormB that's very interesting, thanks.

Do you catch and sell in this way?

From reading between the lines of what you said it is legal but they don't want to acknowledge that it is. In terms of the outboard onboard i'm guessing they would have to prove you were using it relating to fishing and if it was clearly stored in the cabin away from the stern then they would have a hard job in proving so in court as nothing more than for emergency use only.

Am i reading you right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
From what i've read in the regulations regarding being a registered seller it states that the regulations only apply to licensed fishing vessels so i guess as sailing boats are outside this scope then there is no need to be a registered seller. I'm guessing if i was intending to do this in on a big scale and try and sell at Billingsgate then i would probably stumble into problems with administration and their policies, however as i'm only looking at selling to locals i won't have this problem

Am i being too optimistic here?
 

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I've got a Sea Wych, it hasn't got the biggest platform at the back but fine for me and my retired dad to sit with a couple of rods.

I'm not looking to catch loads, just enough for personal consumption then perhaps 10-20KG to neighbours etc. Certainly not a full scale commercial outfit!
Dunno about the legalities but I'd pay money to se the video of a Sea Wych going through The Race
 

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Of course the other reason for licensing commercial operations is that it makes it easier for the inland revenue to validate tax returns from connercial fisherman. If you are wanting to run a small operaration legally you need to consider that presumably the money you make will be taxable - of course if it is a "cash" business probably best to hope there are no sea fishing enthusiasts at the IR who read forum posts!!

I hate to be a kill joy but am I the only one who feels a bit uncomfortable with this topic? It seems that when arguing about things like the 12m rule in the SSFC area the argument against an exception for angling boats is that they already have a big impact on fish stocks and that anglers frequently sell their catch creating a black market that the commercials can't compete with. This topic seems to confirm that argument that there are recreational sea anglers routinely looking to sell quantities of fish (small per person but potentially large in aggregate) outside of commercial controls, without the controls on MLS applied at the quay, and without contribution to the public purse. It is difficult to make the case that Anglers are a positive force in the guardianship of our fish stocks, taking only what we want for our own tables etc when it is publicly recorded here that anglers are looking for ways to flog fish under the radar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi Madpolka

Whilst i'm sure there are a lot of recreational anglers that do sell their catches under the radar this is something i'm not looking to do and of course i'll be declaring any income to the IR.
This topic isn't about that at all, if i wanted to sell black fish i wouldn't be posting on here.

If you read through the thread you'll see that i'm asking the question about what regulations are in place regarding sail boats so that potentially me and my dad can go out and he can supplement his poor pension with a few quid doing something he loves. If the rules allow will we only do so.

I think a small amount of black fishing will always exist with the bulk of this being done by commercially licensed boats rather than the recreational fisherman (in my opinion).

I don't want to make this thread political, i'm just looking to see if anyone has any ideas about the subject.
 

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Hi Matman,

I'll start with an apology as my post was perhaps undiplomatically worded and I don't mean to besmirch the integrity of you or your father. The key issue for me is that the UK fish stocks are a common asset for all stakeholdes, commercial, recreational anglers and divers alike. Whilst I am sure you have good personal reasons for developing your hobby in to a supplementary income there are probably many who could and would claim a similar case. If 5000 anglers (about .5% of the UK RSA population) took an extra 20kg of fish (say about 8 small cod) per month this would equate to 1.2m kilos (1200 Tonnes) a year of fish hitting the market. If the fish were cod (which of course they won't all be but for illustrative purposes) that equates to 5.5% ish of the UK North Sea cod quota (which I think is 22,000 tons or thereabouts, but I'm sure I'll be corrected).

This is a signifcant volume of fish that are / may not being recognised as part of the equation for managing the uk fishery. This is what I mean by being "under the radar". Whether fisheries policy is effective or not is a completely different topic, but the intent of such a policy is to work for the best compromise to benefit all concerned. My concern is that looking for ways to remain "legal" whilst avoiding licensing and regulation may be permitted by magna carta and the like, but magna carta was written at a time when the uk had some 2.5% of the current population, when technology enabled a fraction of the catching capacity of the fishing community today and when fish stocks would have been greater by an order of magnitude.

My opinion, and I accept it is just my opinion, is that seeking ways to commercially exploit loopholes to avoid regulation (although recognising that the intent is honourable - i.e. not feasible to have to conform to the conditions and costs of a license for an enterpirse that would not justify this commercially) is not within the spirit of a conservation minded sporting ethos or fair in the context of an already under pressure commerical sector who find it increasingly difficult to operate viably.
 

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Hi Matman,

Just to go slightly off piste.
We fish off of our sailing boat - a Tomahawk 25 and it is great fun. Highly reccomend it.
Even have got used to the backstays, mast and sprayhood etc, you modify casting for uptiding but we have caught many, many spieces of fish. We regularly anchor overnight and and fish round our area (we are moored in Portsmouth Harbour). We are able to do most of the types of fishing others do in motor boats - but it is a hell of a lot cheaper! Yes it is also slower but as said earlier it does have its bonuses.

Good luck and tight lines.

DD
 

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it is pretty clear actually, if you are under 10 metres, have no power other than sail or oars, you can sell your catch without quota or licence


you can get a way with a powered hauler, as long is provides no propulsion to the vessel

there's a few different hoops, - the vessel licence, the entitlement and the quota

what you are mainly trying to do by using sail power is get entitlement to fish without the licence for such

rules are slightly different depending wether you are england/wales, scotland or channel islands

you may still need a vessel licence which means registering with the Registry of Shipping and Seamen, can't remember the figure exactly but round about £400 - that gives you the licence numbers to paint on the hull - doesn't mean you are allowed to go catch fish (thats the entitlement) or how many you can catch (quota). In scotland you don't need this bit, may be the same for england/wales, but you do need it it for channel islands, isle of man etc

by going the sail route it means you are bypassing the entitlement/quota bits

scotland guidelines: http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2006/10/30105313/2

don't be tempted to think you can get a tow in or out though. the vessel towing you would become instrumental in landing the catch and would need all licences/entitlements/quotas or face heavy fines, and you would also then be classed as powered and need the same - a double whammy, both vessels get busted

for shellfish, there may be local fisheries bylaws for how many you can land per day, which might be worth checking out, and there's another bunch of rules, depending on where you are for migratory fish (salmon/sea trout)
 

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Wouldn't dream of taking her through the Portland Race! That would be suicide!!! LOL
Not suicide, just uncomfortable :) I've been through it a few times in both a 23ft Halcyon and a 10m Nantucket Clipper. OK on a couple of occasions I was actually losing so much headway that I was going backwards for a while but it was still comfier and safer than some of the little Shetland jobbies I've seen out there :D
 
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