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Ive been working on my "off the ground" casting and am really happy with the distance im getting, however once I throw on some tackle i'm getting no further than my overhead thump.

I've realised that all my anchored weights are a bit heavier than my unanchored spinning weights and wondered if this was the cause. I know that throwing out tackle is less aerodynamic, but im losing a lot of distance using heavier weights. My cast technique doesn't seem to be affected by the weight either.

Thanks
 

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in the days of the horse drawn cart, there was a lot of talk about the average or standard weight being 5oz, but after being coaxed into using lighter weights through our casting club, i suddenly thought , hang on, this is great.
i had more controll , -- improved distance, and felt the risk of a hernia had diminished.
i know there are times when you need to use heavy leads to hold bottom, but i,m in my element when conditions allow me to go down 4 - 3 - and 2oz used with a rod and reel to match,
fishing is a joy when everything is balanced out, and hard graft when it is,nt.
 

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Try 3, 5 and 7 oz (or 4, 6 and 8 ) in the field for an hour or two and see if it makes much difference without other end tackle.

If you look at Tournament casting records, you will notice that many casters have very similar distances with 100, 125, 150 and 175 grams so it seems unlikely to be the weight
At a guess an unaerodynamic rig (e.g. 3-hook flapper with "lumpy" baits) costs you up to 30% on a very long cast and perhaps 10-20% of what would be a 120 yard cast.
A neat, small bait tucked close to the lead may cost you ( guess ) 20% of a long cast and very little of a cast that would be 120yds with plain lead
 

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Try 3, 5 and 7 oz (or 4, 6 and 8 ) in the field for an hour or two and see if it makes much difference without other end tackle.

If you look at Tournament casting records, you will notice that many casters have very similar distances with 100, 125, 150 and 175 grams so it seems unlikely to be the weight
At a guess an unaerodynamic rig (e.g. 3-hook flapper with "lumpy" baits) costs you up to 30% on a very long cast and perhaps 10-20% of what would be a 120 yard cast.
A neat, small bait tucked close to the lead may cost you ( guess ) 20% of a long cast and very little of a cast that would be 120yds with plain lead
top tournament casters [some of them] use specialiesed rods that i myself would have difficulty compressing, and yes you are right about loaded rigs and wind resistance. the point i was making was,-- i have often come across people that are out - gunned by the size of the lump of lead that they are trying to chuck on the particular rod they are using. when any part of kit being used does out-gun you you are bound to lose control of your cast?
it might be interesting fot the chap to try my suggestion and if i,m wrong , he can give my butt a verbal kicking on this forum
 

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No t exactly true - John Holden recommended using heavier weights to "tune-up" the power stroke, as it slowed you down somewhat, the lighter leads were rather like a young man at his first "bonk"...lots of waving about, then whack, so fast you didn't know what had happened.:cool:
I practice with 8oz leads, on a 60lb shock leader (physics says no danger!), and it slows everything down so you can analyse what you are doing. I use a Zziplex Zero Plus with the reel low, and it is surprising just how far the lead goes, when you take your time. Most rods (not the flimsy match type, I should add) will do a "Pendulob" with this size weight, to help in developing a good technique. all you need then is the timing to go with it, and you're away!!:yahoo:

philtherod
 

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practice with 8oz leads! -- is this an overall method for every one?, without considering a persons build /strength. i would,nt attempt to hoist one.
it sounds more like punishing yourself cos when you stop it feels better.you and i should be able to teach timing without putting an ingot on a line to slow someone down. i,ve seen some of these big lead chukkers turn to deliver with their eyes shut wondering what is going to give way first.
i have also seen elbow tendons harmed through casters trying to emulate the likes of big danny and other huge casters who sling the big leads.
when teaching [as i have said before] for me its hands on explanations in understandable terms
i,m sorry but on this method we must agree to dissagree
 

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ive had 230 yrds with a200g lead it will suprise you how for they go when you get the timing right

and there good if the wind is in your face
 

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Heavy leads are easier than you might think to cast...as said, it is timing and technique.

philtherod
 

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Like philtherod says , practice with a heavier lead slows everything down so you have got chance to see whats going on.I fish with 6oz most of the time as it suits me and my gear (6ft , 19 stone , Daiwa AWT12M Tournament Plus +525 Mag) but the cast seems to stand still compared to my bass gear.
 

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practice with 8oz leads! -- is this an overall method for every one?, without considering a persons build /strength. i would,nt attempt to hoist one.
it sounds more like punishing yourself cos when you stop it feels better.you and i should be able to teach timing without putting an ingot on a line to slow someone down. i,ve seen some of these big lead chukkers turn to deliver with their eyes shut wondering what is going to give way first.
i have also seen elbow tendons harmed through casters trying to emulate the likes of big danny and other huge casters who sling the big leads.
when teaching [as i have said before] for me its hands on explanations in understandable terms
i,m sorry but on this method we must agree to dissagree
Those tournament casters are using the same rods for 100gram and 125 gram and 150 gram weights ! Generally they are rods designed for casting 150 grams (and many of them are beach rods, rather than super-stiff poles).
I don't understand why they don't do better with a tournament rod specifically designed for 100 (or 125) grams with the lighter weights, but they don't - they use the same rod as for 150grams (+)

casters like Keith White are casting 300grams (they call it the "Hungry Hippo" weight) with ordinary fishing ...and tournament... rods

They don't get as far as they do with 225grams or 175 grams but , because the rod bends a lot more - so making a much shorter lever against the caster's action, they say it is not as hard as you might think ...... unless you try and rush the cast.

I have cast 12oz (in a gale, on Chesil ... 7 oz leads were ending up back at our feet) with a Conoflex DC8 and I gather some fishermen in Hawaii regularly cast 16 oz weights (for Giant Trevally fishing), and in fact have a particular "tournament" category for that.
 

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Those tournament casters are using the same rods for 100gram and 125 gram and 150 gram weights ! Generally they are rods designed for casting 150 grams (and many of them are beach rods, rather than super-stiff poles).
I don't understand why they don't do better with a tournament rod specifically designed for 100 (or 125) grams with the lighter weights, but they don't - they use the same rod as for 150grams (+)

casters like Keith White are casting 300grams (they call it the "Hungry Hippo" weight) with ordinary fishing ...and tournament... rods

They don't get as far as they do with 225grams or 175 grams but , because the rod bends a lot more - so making a much shorter lever against the caster's action, they say it is not as hard as you might think ...... unless you try and rush the cast.

I have cast 12oz (in a gale, on Chesil ... 7 oz leads were ending up back at our feet) with a Conoflex DC8 and I gather some fishermen in Hawaii regularly cast 16 oz weights (for Giant Trevally fishing), and in fact have a particular "tournament" category for that.
i suggested to the original poster what i thought woul help him. and guess what , -- we are about to get into the realms of , how big a lump of lead a person can chuck.----- to start with rods, - many top casters are and have been using special - tailor made rods, and before you jump on me i said many, not all. i have said that when teaching and advising the persons physical abilty should be taken into account . which cant be done on a forum. i don,t care about people casting ultra heavy weights, such as
the 16oz weights used in hawaii -- the person chucking a brick on a beach in scotland or in fact if there is someone hurling big lumps of metal into a howling gale any where. these situations are not the norm , and i dont think it will help the person who originally asked the question. oh, and by the way, i have seen top casters smash rods into bits with the normal size weights ,but then again what has that to do with helping solve a problem for the person who originally asked for help?
 

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and yet you are suggesting he uses lighter weights.


I like using lighter weights, but I don't think (he himself said does not seem to affect his technique) that him using slightly heavier weights on the beach was what was costing him distance.

So I suggested he try a range of weights out , on a field, to eliminate that as a cause.
If it did then he would know it was something else (e.g. the bulkiness of his rigs).

If it didn't then he would know , but not (of course) why.

I didn't start talking about chucking "great lumps of lead" and specialised rods - I only replied with examples of that to show that it isn't as hard as you were making out (in your reply to suggestion of trying 3,5,7 or 4,6,8 ) and ...incidentally... lets you cast slowly.

I think I'll leave this topic - I feel I am antagonising someone.
 

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heres a thought jason willacombe (if its spelt right) cast a 200g 277yrds on sunday using a hst the older red hst and chris braily has had 267
 

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The original post was ,i thought about getting more distance on a beach with tackle attached,yet many people have answered with examples of what so and so can does in a field,where we can guess people are not using beach tackle and are casting in wind from behind conditions were agreeably 100 - 175 grams makes not a great deal of difference distance wise ,but surely anyone who has done much practical beach fishing in proper fishing conditions cannot argue that 150- 170 gram leads cast the furthest in extreme conditions 200grams may sail a bit further but with a decent bait 100 0r 125 gram can almost blow backwards after its initial takeoff it just seems to stop dead .So to answer the original question i would suggest 150- 170 grams and lots of practise and maybe even some tuition (but thats another thread!!)
 

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casting on a field is very different to casting on the beach. infact it's almost like a completely different type of sport.

i take it that the rod isn't folding up under the extra strain of the extra weight. what rod, rig, style are you using?

sorry if you did say at the beginning but it's been a while since i read the question, with all this tournament stuff.
 

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Come on lads! These forums are for offering personal advice. Most of us are adult enough to be able to read all and decide pros and cons. We should also be adult enough to accept that a contrary view by someone else does not suggest that you are wrong!! We are grateful for your free, honest advice! Please just shrug your shoulders!!!!

As a casting 'beginner' I can see the merit of practising with a method (in this case a heavier lead than you might otherwise use) in order to slow down the cast. I've also learnt that some rods seem 'happier' casting with a certain weight. For example my Rubber Shark casts three baited hooks 'sweeter' with 4ozs than it does with 6! In fact I broke the tip using bait plus 6ozs when I had to use an abreviated cast whilst standing on a ledge with hardly any room behind. (At 65 i'm not sure I should have been there anyway!!!) I've learnt that onshore winds and big baits cast on an exposed East coast beach affect distance far more than I ever thought. With my poor technique stuffing a bigger lead gave me such a slight increase in distance that I was actually better off using a 'lesser' rod with thinner line and a weight I felt I could control. On a couple of occasions when the sea at Ness Point was red I just gave it best and went home! (now i'll just look for a safe field!!)

However.... these pages with contributions from a certain two gentlemen, who have offered me their own great advice, is what makes WSF. Thanks a lot lads, and i'll be the bloke on the beach with the broad smile 'cos I will soon be able to justify spending good money on decent tackle!
 

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Going back on the question - you say heavier weights when fishing and don't mention which daiwa rod you are using. You may be overpowering the rod because you are effectively casting harder than you do with the overhead thump. There are 3 ways of dealing with that if it's the case - a slightly later release - difficult, less drop - effective but it only has a marginal effect, less lead - easy. I would try 1oz less lead.

If this is the case you may be tempted to go for a more powerful rod - beware. They are harder to master and won't give you any extra distance unless you are up to it so go in that direction very carefully.

John
 
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