[redboat]

A registered fishing vessel or an angler within an environment that requires a licence is one thing but anglers going about their leisure activities is an entirely different kettle of fish (no pun intended)

My understanding is that fisheries officers are required to conduct their activities in line with the police and criminal evidence act. There must first be a suspicion that a crime has or is in the process of being committed for s citizen to have to identify themselves, for a search there must be reasonable grounds and a written record / receipt must be given identifying when and where this took place.

Just sayin'

A fishery officer has the right to enter premises, vehicles, boats etc to search without permission or a warrant if he (she, they) "believe" an offence has taken place
Could be wrong but I don't think a copper has that power

 

[*]

seems a tad heavy handed to me. would like to know what justification was used for deeming the anglers under enough suspicion that they searched their possessions .

My understanding is that fisheries officers are required to conduct their activities in line with the police and criminal evidence act.

Think they have similar powers to customs and excise, and looking like you are uncomfortable and may be hiding something can get you questioned, refusal to cooperate can escalate the action.

 

[AnonymousUser]

seems a tad heavy handed to me. would like to know what justification was used for deeming the anglers under enough suspicion that they searched their possessions .
cheers rab

Kingmere MCZ Rab.

Management measures for the Black Bream came into effect April 1st. Littlehampton main port for sea anglers accessing MCZ.

Fisheries management on the cheap if you ask me.

Effective though eh !

 

[Blanksy]

Police and criminal evidence act 1984 applies to all agencies engaged in criminal investigation.


The following is cut from an advert / role profile for a fisheries officer "stopping and searching fishing vessels in line with the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE)"

 

[*]

General powers of British sea-fishery officers.

(1)For the purpose of enforcing the provisions of any order under section 5 above or of [F17section 2 of the M1Fishery Limits Act 1976] or any order thereunder a British sea-fishery officer may exercise in relation to any fishing boat within [F18British fishery limits] and in relation to any British fishing boat anywhere outside those limits the powers conferred by subsection (2) to (4) below.

(2)He may go on board the boat, with or without persons assigned to assist him in his duties, and for that purpose may require the boat to stop and do anything else which will facilitate the boarding of the boat.

(3)He may require the attendance of the master and other persons on board the boat and may make any examination and inquiry which appears to him to be necessary for the purpose mentioned in subsection (1) above and, in particular,—

(a)may examine any fish on the boat and the equipment of the boat, including the fishing gear, and require persons on board the boat to do anything which appears to him to be necessary for facilitating the examination; and

[F19(b)may require any person on board the boat to produce any document relating to the boat, to its fishing operations or other operations ancillary thereto or to the persons on board which is in his custody or possession and may take copies of any such document;

(c)for the purpose of ascertaining whether the master, owner or charterer of the boat has committed an offence under any of the provisions mentioned in subsection (1) above, may search the boat for any such document and may require any person on board the boat to do anything which appears to him to be necessary for facilitating the search;

(d)where the boat is one in relation to which he has reason to suspect that such an offence has been committed, may seize and detain any such document produced to him or found on board for the purpose of enabling the document to be used as evidence in proceedings for the offence;

but nothing in paragraph (d) above shall permit any document required by law to be carried on board the boat to be seized and detained except while the boat is detained in a port.]

 

[Blanksy]

Mmmmmmmm, nice one Steve, however the act you are quoting is 1968. PACE now gives the guidance under which they conduct the duties within that act.

But then again I could be wrong, I'm just surfin the web and reading....

 

[Netter Ed]

fisheries enforcement officers (ifca mmo) have more powers than the police as to suspecting you of committing an offence

you are also guilty until proven innocent with these guys

welcome to the big boys club

 

[Bykerfisher]

i wish i could get the dates they are inspecting shore anglers on the tyne piers,especially at mackie bashing time. would be worth driving down just to watch the inevitable
cheers rab

Rab you can only get on Tynemouth pier if your in a fishing club, most people got climb abig gate a night to get on it. But I bet they don't go on blyth pier as the likely get throw off. They reckon it's hectic like and some of the fish people keep it's un-real wouldn't get fish finger out of it. We live in a sad world when people kill living things for the sake of killing.

 

[*]

Mmmmmmmm, nice one Steve, however the act you are quoting is 1968. PACE now gives the guidance under which they conduct the duties within that act.

The last update I'm seeing to the act is 2002 and no mention of PACE

 

[Blanksy]

It won't mention it Steve, it provides the legislative framework that any person with a duty of investigating criminal offences or charging offenders is required to follow.

Again, I know nothing but I can read Wiki... (And the job adverts for fisheries officers)

The purpose of PACE is to limit those draconian statutory powers of entry etc (the ones that folk have alluded to here) that they already had.

They can still carry out their powers but need to do so under the guidance of PACE...

 

[REG PHILLIPS]

First of all I am amazed that this thread has been allowed on an angling forum, it is obvious the intention was to wind up the members of WSF, specifically the angling community, yes Stevieg we are still anglers on here.

The whole thread is a load of horse manure because anglers have always and will always be inspected
by marine management agencies, absolutely nothing has changed. I have been boarded 5 times in recent years, we once even had the fisheries vessel shadow our every movement and then sit there keeping an eye on five of our club vessels during a competition. I was going to start a little banter on the radio but thought better of it, these guys may not have a sense of humour.

Twice I have had SxIFCA officers waiting for me at my mooring, they knew exactly when I was returning and once moored they climbed onboard and inspected every orifice. We had done nothing wrong so had nothing to worry about and they were just doing their job. They took our names and gave us a receipt with details/contact for the IFCA office and the results of the inspection conducted, which we could check up on if we felt it necessary to question the findings.

In this case it seems the SxIFCA officers are simply conducting their duties, yes is because of the Kingmere MCZ, yes it is because of black bream and bass. I take it no-one was found guilty of any offence which a) proves anglers are not breaking the MCZ bylaws or the bass regulations and b) proves the SxIFCA will manage the fishery INCLUDING commercial activities. Does any angler really believe that the Sussex IFCA would agree that RSA's are allowed to fish inside the Kingmere MCZ during the black bream spawning/nesting season and NOT INTEND to inspect their vessels. As far as these marine management agencies are concerned we are all the same, unfortunately, thanks to our commercial brothers that means we cannot be trusted.

This thread started with a claim angling Orgs were asking for parity, well the commercials have been asking the same when it comes to fisheries inspections thinking that anglers are stealing their fish stocks. Thinking anglers are selling their catches by the box load while they have to throw them back in the sea dead. Believe me guys there are all sorts of wild accusations being directed at anglers right now, not just with bass, but cod too and soon to be all species that the commercials have an interest in.

Your choice if you want to continue believing horse s... by certain commercials on here, but don't be fooled........................they are not your allies in all of this.

 

[Leon Roskilly]

I expect it has a lot to do with:

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/threads/mmo-turn-up-the-heat-on-iuu.7587450/

Many claims that anglers are walking ashore with tonnes of bass to be sold cheap at the nearest restuarant have to be taken seriously.

The quantities that are being caught and sold by unlicensed vessels are now significant and beyond anything that could reasonably be called recreational fishing.

http://nffo.org.uk/news/tackling-the-threat-posed-by-unlicensed-fishing.html

The only way to get to the truth of it is to check.

Either we start seeing a large number of anglers reported for illegal landings and/or selling of catches or the claims that they do will be found largely without foundation and just the insignificant odd case of someone breaking the rules, probably in innocence of knowing what the rules are signifying a power to communicate, will result.

 

[Leon Roskilly]

Hmmmmm!

Wooden spoons are out and being used in play.

https://www.change.org/p/associatio...d-conservation-authorities-support-the-monitoring-of-anglers-by-ifcas-in-the-uk

Commercial fishers work under a complex tapestry of regulation that often tells them what, how, when and how much they can catch. Regulations controlling the activities of anglers are fewer and looser. Both groups are "policed" by the Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities around the English coast. Generally there is a fairly amicable relationship between commercial fisherfolk and the IFCAs, even when they are enforcing what the industry consider illogical regulations. In some parts of the country it is possible for anglers to catch as much or more of some species of fish as a commercial fisher is permitted - this is a contentious issue. One group are making a living from fishing while the other is doing it for pleasure. In the middle are charter boats who are angling commercially. Some anglers do not feel that they should be subject to the same inspection regime as commercial fishermen. We disagree and we support and encourage the IFCAs to continue to monitor the activities of charter boats and marine anglers in a fair and even-handed manner.

 

[stevieg]

First of all I am amazed that this thread has been allowed on an angling forum, it is obvious the intention was to wind up the members of WSF, specifically the angling community, yes Stevieg we are still anglers on here.

The whole thread is a load of horse manure because anglers have always and will always be inspected
by marine management agencies, absolutely nothing has changed. I have been boarded 5 times in recent years, we once even had the fisheries vessel shadow our every movement and then sit there keeping an eye on five of our club vessels during a competition. I was going to start a little banter on the radio but thought better of it, these guys may not have a sense of humour.

Twice I have had SxIFCA officers waiting for me at my mooring, they knew exactly when I was returning and once moored they climbed onboard and inspected every orifice. We had done nothing wrong so had nothing to worry about and they were just doing their job. They took our names and gave us a receipt with details/contact for the IFCA office and the results of the inspection conducted, which we could check up on if we felt it necessary to question the findings.

In this case it seems the SxIFCA officers are simply conducting their duties, yes is because of the Kingmere MCZ, yes it is because of black bream and bass. I take it no-one was found guilty of any offence which a) proves anglers are not breaking the MCZ bylaws or the bass regulations and b) proves the SxIFCA will manage the fishery INCLUDING commercial activities. Does any angler really believe that the Sussex IFCA would agree that RSA's are allowed to fish inside the Kingmere MCZ during the black bream spawning/nesting season and NOT INTEND to inspect their vessels. As far as these marine management agencies are concerned we are all the same, unfortunately, thanks to our commercial brothers that means we cannot be trusted.

Err....the petition is not mine Reg, I believe the fella is an angler + 199 fellow anglers have signed it so far, maybe they are not quite as happy with this as you seem to be.

This thread started with a claim angling Orgs were asking for parity,

That's because they were asking for parity.

well the commercials have been asking the same when it comes to fisheries inspections thinking that anglers are stealing their fish stocks. Thinking anglers are selling their catches by the box load while they have to throw them back in the sea dead. Believe me guys there are all sorts of wild accusations being directed at anglers right now, not just with bass, but cod too and soon to be all species that the commercials have an interest in.

When you constantly poke a bear, any bear, to raise your own profile at the bears expense, I imagine this sort of thing would be expected in response......are you really surprised that when you constantly kick something it eventually has a wee kick back?

I suspect you are absolutely correct in that other species will soon be under serious scrutiny as well, just as predicted for so many years when people urged caution in all of these demands and claims, the marine management monster is well and truly rolling......funnily enough you called all those warnings over the years horsepoo as well.

Your choice if you want to continue believing horse s... by certain commercials on here, but don't be fooled........................they are not your allies in all of this.

You keep saying I spread horsepoo Reg, yet have never ever been able to show it to be, we must be about Chapter 476 so far and each and every time nothing I have said has been shown to be untrue or not bang on the money.

I am a bigger ally of normal mainstream non-extremist anglers than you would believe, I am not the one who has been campaigning for years for them to be managed, or the areas where they fish to be managed.....could you say the same?

Correct me if I am wrong but were you not a mover in an intense campaign by the ATs Sussex Division to have anglers activities in this area "managed".....and so it came to be, here we are, "management" in action......

Do you remember this -

No decisions have yet been made about any management measures on the Kingmere or in any other MCZ for that matter.

The Angling Trust is putting pressure on, and working with, the Sussex IFCA to create a sensible management plan which will be agreed by all marine users.

If stopping all trawling in an MCZ's means that anglers have to put up with same restrictions then it may be a price worth paying - we don't own the seas any more that anyone else. We don't have a divine right to go fishing.

Black Bream stocks need a proper management plan all along the coast and not just within their identified breeding grounds.

The Kingmere MCZ is a good focus for this campaign because the local IFCA has to introduce some sort of management plan for that area - so we would like to see it expanded to encompass the entire area.

The is no other angling body in the UK which has the clout to negotiate on behalf of anglers - the Angling Trust is the only game in town.

.........

 

[stevieg]

Hmmmmm!

Wooden spoons are out and being used in play.

https://www.change.org/p/associatio...d-conservation-authorities-support-the-monitoring-of-anglers-by-ifcas-in-the-uk

Commercial fishers work under a complex tapestry of regulation that often tells them what, how, when and how much they can catch. Regulations controlling the activities of anglers are fewer and looser. Both groups are "policed" by the Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authorities around the English coast. Generally there is a fairly amicable relationship between commercial fisherfolk and the IFCAs, even when they are enforcing what the industry consider illogical regulations. In some parts of the country it is possible for anglers to catch as much or more of some species of fish as a commercial fisher is permitted - this is a contentious issue. One group are making a living from fishing while the other is doing it for pleasure. In the middle are charter boats who are angling commercially. Some anglers do not feel that they should be subject to the same inspection regime as commercial fishermen. We disagree and we support and encourage the IFCAs to continue to monitor the activities of charter boats and marine anglers in a fair and even-handed manner.

Very well worded, Magnus is one seriously smart cookie.

 

[seafoods]

I expect it has a lot to do with:

http://www.worldseafishing.com/forums/threads/mmo-turn-up-the-heat-on-iuu.7587450/

Many claims that anglers are walking ashore with tonnes of bass to be sold cheap at the nearest restuarant have to be taken seriously.

The quantities that are being caught and sold by unlicensed vessels are now significant and beyond anything that could reasonably be called recreational fishing.

http://nffo.org.uk/news/tackling-the-threat-posed-by-unlicensed-fishing.html

The only way to get to the truth of it is to check.

Either we start seeing a large number of anglers reported for illegal landings and/or selling of catches or the claims that they do will be found largely without foundation and just the insignificant odd case of someone breaking the rules, probably in innocence of knowing what the rules are signifying a power to communicate, will result.

You are probably right in that it's to do with the recently launched MMO campaign Leon, combined with Kingmere MCZ regulations coming into force. TBH if I was trying to find anglers doing anything wrong I would imagine that a charter boat would be the last place you would find it, far too many witnesses. Judging by the reaction of a few, starting petitions etc, they will have achieved exactly what they set out to do, get anglers talking and raise awareness of the likelihood of being inspected. Most folk will adopt a similar attitude to Reg regarding inspections, as most commercial fishermen have over the years, these guys have a job to do, it's a bit of a pain when it delays you going about your business but you learn to live with it.

 

[Leon Roskilly]

I'm always pleased when on too rare occasions an Environment Officer appears by my side on a riverbank and asks to see my freshwater rod licence.

Funnily enough when accompanying IFCA officers in the past on angler surveys, I've been a bit surprised to find beach anglers also happy to have someone in authority taking notice of what is happening, and keen to get off their chest their frustrations about so called anglers taking undersized fish, or walking off piers loaded with mackerel and/undersized bass etc.

(The other thing that I found surprising was the number of anglers (most) with fish-rules and a list of minimum sizes).

 

[bubbles]

Guys the topic is valid and happy for it to be discussed but please leave your personals and history out of it. If it becomes another "who said what thread" it will be closed.

Personally no issue with being checked. For years I have seen people moaning about lack of enforcement regarding retaining undersized fish etc, can hardly now claim it's unfair because it's finally happening

 

[Norm B]

Seriously??
CF are watched by RN fishery protection vessels and boarded and searched regularly also IFCA boats crews board and search regularly, not to mention the MMO shore Bailifs watching every landing with their IFCA colleagues
All paperwork and logbooks are scrutinised for any mistake with fines for misdemeanours and licences frozen until all is paid/sorted.
As for "legal rights" a fishery officer has more rights than the police if they believe a fishy crime has been committed

I served on a fishery protection squadron in the RN and it's "A JOKE". We could only board if we were chartered by MAFF to do so, otherwise we had to leave alone, even if we saw illegal fishing taking place. We once caught a French trawler breaking all the rules, undersize mesh, undersize cod end, undersize catch, fish over quota, fish with no quota and log not filled in. We arrested him and put 2 sailors onboard and told him to follow us into Plymouth. We informed MAFF we were bringing him in and what he was charged with, half an hour later we received a signal from MAFF telling us to apologise and let him go, the government was in delicate negotiations with the French and it won't help if we arrest one of their trawlers. The fisheries officer onboard was furious so he bought a carton of cigarettes and a bottle of whiskey from the NAAFI and gave them to the skipper and said he'd give the bill to his boss, the skipper was gobsmacked, as one moment he was expecting the book to be thrown at him and a fine in excess of a £100,000, next minute he was being let go and given a carton of cigarettes and a bottle of whiskey, he must have thought the British were mad. IMHO the person who made the decision to release him should have been charged with perverting the course of justice. MAFF, now Defra, can only afford to charter RN ships for some of the year so most of the time illegal fishing goes unchallenged so the skippers take a chance, knowing that if and when they do get caught the fine will be paid by the times they don't get caught. This "show of force" on RSA's is just to show the commercials that they are checking RSA's too but while they are doing it they can do what they want as they are busy.

 

[Norm B]

A fishery officer has the right to enter premises, vehicles, boats etc to search without permission or a warrant if he (she, they) "believe" an offence has taken place
Could be wrong but I don't think a copper has that power

I think a copper has "reasonable cause" to search a person or premises. If they stop someone who has say, drugs or stolen goods on them, they'd have "reasonable cause" to search their home as they believe they may be a drug dealer or thief, or if they stopped someone with a large sports bag at 3 AM in the middle of town when all the gyms are closed, they may have "reasonable cause" to think he's a burglar. I can't see though what "reasonable cause" they would have for searching a group of anglers just because the've been fishing, unless of course they had a livebait well full of sandeels.