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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all


I have decided to invest in some new reels, one for Popping and one for Jigging. I have read the Alan Hawk review on the new Daiwa Expedition Reel which he rates the highest out of all the saltwater fixed spool reels. However Daiwa has also produced another saltwater reel which is the Saltiga 15 and is slightly cheaper than the Expeditions. When reading the descriptions they both seem to have all the same spec which is a bit confusing.


Can anyone tell me the difference between the two reels and if anyone has any experience using them what they think of them.


Appreciate your comments and any help given.


Phil
 

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Hi all


I have decided to invest in some new reels, one for Popping and one for Jigging. I have read the Alan Hawk review on the new Daiwa Expedition Reel which he rates the highest out of all the saltwater fixed spool reels. However Daiwa has also produced another saltwater reel which is the Saltiga 15 and is slightly cheaper than the Expeditions. When reading the descriptions they both seem to have all the same spec which is a bit confusing.


Can anyone tell me the difference between the two reels and if anyone has any experience using them what they think of them.


Appreciate your comments and any help given.


Phil
Are you comparing the 8000 size 2015 Saltiga with the Expo? If so I'm really not sure what the difference is I'm afraid. The new Expo has a "high" gear ratio (unlike the old one which was low), so it's more suited to surface work than jigging. There's a Dogfight model which is low gear though. Looks like the 2015 Saltiga is available in both ratios, so you could get a matched pair. No idea why it's cheaper than the expo I'm afraid, but I have an Expo and it's a great reel.

Must say, seems very weird to me that Daiwa released a new Saltiga so soon after the last ones!
 

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Hi Phil,

The Expedition has a better (metal) radiation drag knob, a slightly different handle knob and as has already been mentioned differing gear ratios. The 8K Expedition is a big reel - I'd stick with the smaller 5500 myself if you're going with the Expedition. ;) I'd also check out some of the reported issues with the Magseal on the Saltiga's before pressing the buy button. I'm not saying they're not great reels, just that the Magseal system may be a little problematic when it comes to servicing and maintained condition of the reel. Shimano's Stella has its own issues re its foot angle (and compatibility with some rod rings spacings) and a weird drag on the 14K (all the drag is in a very small number of clicks right at the end of travel) so neither reel is perfect (but what ever is?) Be aware that if you really get into your popping and jigging that there are far more aftermarket manufacturers of parts for the Stella than the Saltiga (but you won't worry about this unless you're seriously afflicted!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Tim

Thanks for the info. Just out of interested where did you purchase the Expedition Reels from as I have not found a stockiest on the UK for them yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi Rosterfish.

You make some good points on getting aftermarket care. Yes shimano are easy to deal with in the UK when servicing and repairs need to be made.

I must admit I have not heard any issues with the Mag Seal on the Daiwa Reels. If you have any specifics or horror stories I would love to hear about them.

There are two reels in the Expeditions (see below). They both have a high retrieve, so are these only really good for Top Water fishing? I was hoping to buy a matching pair as Tim suggested.

 

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I bought a expedition 2015 6500 high speed . And I love it to bits , have had big doradoo , big eye to 30 kg , lost a huge yellowfin ( nearly spooled me!). From Cape Verde , took it to ascention end January , had yellowfin to 40 kg and amberjack to the same, great reel , super smooth drag,

Also got a 8000 dog fight , 2015 , that is also a class act , super smooth,
Have used Stella's , but dawia is my personal choice , jigging or popping , on the dog fight I just reel faster if popping
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hi Bassaholic and all

So it appears I have two choices. An Expedition Reel in size 5500H or 8000H for Popping and a Saltiga 15 Dogfight in 8000 for Jigging?

Or if I wanted to get a matching pair it would be a Saltiga 15 5500H or 6500H for Popping and Saltiga Dogfight in 8000 for Jigging?

Just so I have this correct guys 5.7.1 Ratio is for Popping and a 4.3.1 Ration is for Jigging? Is this correct?

Appreciate all your help in spending my money lol
 

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Hi Phil, yes you have the ratios the right way round. The speed is sometimes necessary when using topwater baits, the lower ratio makes it easier retrieving heavy jigs from deep water.

You can wind faster, or make it harder for yourself, but if you don't want to?
 

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Hi Rosterfish.

You make some good points on getting aftermarket care. Yes shimano are easy to deal with in the UK when servicing and repairs need to be made.

I must admit I have not heard any issues with the Mag Seal on the Daiwa Reels. If you have any specifics or horror stories I would love to hear about them.

There are two reels in the Expeditions (see below). They both have a high retrieve, so are these only really good for Top Water fishing? I was hoping to buy a matching pair as Tim suggested.

View attachment 333978
Daiwa have made some claims re water sealing using the Magseal system that have been shown to not be true, i.e. serviced Saltigas (and other Daiwa reels as most are now Magsealed in the premium reels) have shown water ingress and in the case of a few pictures of opened up Expeditions I've seen on FB even corrosion internally as a result. Note that neither the Saltiga nor Stella claim to be waterproof (only Van Staals AFAIK do that), but when you're paying what you do for an Expedition, you expect the blurb about sealing to be more accurate than it appears to be. Again, I've not owned an Expedition, just going on what I've seen (and you're obviously not going to see all the reels that are OK). Again, AFAIK, only Daiwa service centres have access to the magseal oil used, so your service options on the Saltigas are limited. As has been discussed, the Expeditions are now high gear, so you'll want to use them for popping/stickbaits only. Low gear for jigging means other reels such as the aforementioned Dogfight (which confusingly I think is now a low gear when it used to be high gear). A bit confusing between iterations of Saltigas, but we'll all get used to the new nomenclature/gearing I'm sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks guys I think I am starting to get my head around this.

However this has raised another question! If I where to go down the Daiwa route, though Roosterfish has given me something to think about, what are the comparable reel sizes to the Shimano Stella? I will be buying these on line and I won't see them until they are on my doorstep and I don't want to have purchased the wrong size. Am I correct in saying :-

Daiwa 5500 is a 14000 size in the Stella which is ideal for Popping?
Daiwa 6500 is a 18000 size in the Stella which is ideal for Jigging?
Daiwa 8000 is a 20000 size in the Stella which is ideal for extreme Jigging and Hugh Parlagics like big Doggies, Tuna and Bill Fish?
 

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Hi Phil,

The Expedition has a better (metal) radiation drag knob, a slightly different handle knob and as has already been mentioned differing gear ratios. The 8K Expedition is a big reel - I'd stick with the smaller 5500 myself if you're going with the Expedition. ;) I'd also check out some of the reported issues with the Magseal on the Saltiga's before pressing the buy button. I'm not saying they're not great reels, just that the Magseal system may be a little problematic when it comes to servicing and maintained condition of the reel. Shimano's Stella has its own issues re its foot angle (and compatibility with some rod rings spacings) and a weird drag on the 14K (all the drag is in a very small number of clicks right at the end of travel) so neither reel is perfect (but what ever is?) Be aware that if you really get into your popping and jigging that there are far more aftermarket manufacturers of parts for the Stella than the Saltiga (but you won't worry about this unless you're seriously afflicted!)
This issue with aftermarket servicing on the Saltiga magseal is no longer the case. The UK Daiwa people can service magseals properly now. In general I don't think the issue of multiple service sites is worth worrying about, personally I'd only get my Daiwas serviced at Daiwa's own place, and my Stellas at Felindre (Shimano's official service shop in the UK). If you're paying top whack for a real it's not about messing about trying to get a cheaper deal on servicing IMO.

Hi Tim

Can I ask you what you use your Expedition Reel for either Popping or Jigging or Both?
I use it as a GT topwater reel mainly (and my Stella 20k as a jigging reel), but personally I don't think the usual advice given (slow retrieve for jig, high for pop) is as clear cut as sometimes made out. On a recent trip to Tanzania I was left seriously wishing I had a higher gear on my jigging setup, as we were winding up big 500g jigs from huge depths. My friend's Stella 30k (same body as mine but a bigger spool so higher effective gear) handled this process with less effort, so I was left puffing away for an extra few minutes at the end of a drop!


Thanks guys I think I am starting to get my head around this.

However this has raised another question! If I where to go down the Daiwa route, though Roosterfish has given me something to think about, what are the comparable reel sizes to the Shimano Stella? I will be buying these on line and I won't see them until they are on my doorstep and I don't want to have purchased the wrong size. Am I correct in saying :-

Daiwa 5500 is a 14000 size in the Stella which is ideal for Popping?
Daiwa 6500 is a 18000 size in the Stella which is ideal for Jigging?
Daiwa 8000 is a 20000 size in the Stella which is ideal for extreme Jigging and Hugh Parlagics like big Doggies, Tuna and Bill Fish?
The 18000 Stella is high speed, so probably better suited as a topwater reel, though see my caveat above. The 6500 Saltiga is a decent "heavy" popping reel.

The 8000H Expo is like the 30k stella spool body basically, while the 8000H dogfight is more like the same on a 20k body. All of these are for fairly extreme situations where you either want a seriously powerful drag system (some would say excessive to be honest!) or a large line capacity.


___
I think maybe an easier way to go about this decision process is to find out roughly where you're expecting to fish and what you'll be targeting. To be honest in many situations I prefer to use a much lighter reel for my topwater stuff: I have an old style Stella 8k body with an aftermarket 16k spool, which gives a lightweight reel and decent line capacity. I use this for tuna in the 100lb class, and small GTs/reef species. For big GT in difficult terrain, or for big tuna, I'd use my 8000H saltiga. If I only had one setup, I think I'd probably choose the lighter one, paired with a rod designed for around PE4-6 braid, casting 60-80g lures, as that's useable in more situations.

http://www.adventureangler.net/Jigging-Master /Jigging-Master-Monster16000?sort=p.sort_order&order=ASC&page=2&limit=6

With jigging, it's mainly a question of how light a line you can get away with, and where you're fishing in terms of depth, current and size of jig you need to use. Unlike with the topwater, if I had to choose only one jigging setup I'd choose a fairly heavy one: PE6-8 line, a big high capacity reel like the dogfight or stella 20k, and a rod designed to work heavy jigs. Ideally you'd have a lighter setup as well of course, but I'd rather bias towards grunt over finesse when jigging, simply because there's more to it than just the size of fish: strong tides, extreme depths etc can make finesse fishing difficult. Also worth mentioning that a lot of people like to use a conventional multiplier reel when jigging, and there are a number of fairly inexpensive but excellent options on the market for these. I have one of these:

http://www.adventureangler.net/Reels/Jigging-Master-Ocean-Devil-Reel

in PE4 size, which I pair with a Temple Reef Mytho Plus for light jigging work. I've not got a heavier model, but I assume it would work just as well if you went for say the PE6 or PE8 and paired it with a heavy jig setup.
 

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Daiwa have made some claims re water sealing using the Magseal system that have been shown to not be true, i.e. serviced Saltigas (and other Daiwa reels as most are now Magsealed in the premium reels) have shown water ingress and in the case of a few pictures of opened up Expeditions I've seen on FB even corrosion internally as a result. Note that neither the Saltiga nor Stella claim to be waterproof (only Van Staals AFAIK do that), but when you're paying what you do for an Expedition, you expect the blurb about sealing to be more accurate than it appears to be. Again, I've not owned an Expedition, just going on what I've seen (and you're obviously not going to see all the reels that are OK). Again, AFAIK, only Daiwa service centres have access to the magseal oil used, so your service options on the Saltigas are limited. As has been discussed, the Expeditions are now high gear, so you'll want to use them for popping/stickbaits only. Low gear for jigging means other reels such as the aforementioned Dogfight (which confusingly I think is now a low gear when it used to be high gear). A bit confusing between iterations of Saltigas, but we'll all get used to the new nomenclature/gearing I'm sure.
When I don't know the people in question who have reported it, I don't want to go around casting aspersions about how other anglers might treat their kit, but magseals need to be treated properly. A lot of anglers, after washing their reels, go around liberally spraying everything with WD40, which would interfere with mag seal function. It's possible that those who have seen water ingress have done something similar. Oils and Mag seals don't mix! On the other hand there might be a genuine problem. I've not had mine for long enough to say yet!
 

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When I don't know the people in question who have reported it, I don't want to go around casting aspersions about how other anglers might treat their kit, but magseals need to be treated properly. A lot of anglers, after washing their reels, go around liberally spraying everything with WD40, which would interfere with mag seal function. It's possible that those who have seen water ingress have done something similar. Oils and Mag seals don't mix! On the other hand there might be a genuine problem. I've not had mine for long enough to say yet!
Some great points Timmer. :)

Firstly, it's good to know that Daiwa UK can handle Magseal servicing - that's (good) news to me. :) There is something to be said for 3rd party servicing, especially if you've modified your reels with non OEM parts (obviously this doesn't include RCS and Yumeya parts) - indeed, it may invalidate some warranties (but I can't comment for sure on this). With regard to the Expedition with internal corrosion, this belonged to a chap called Mark Harris, who really knows his onions/GT fishing and routinely services his reels. Again, it's one man's experience and as you rightly say, these may vary!

Re jigging, I started out using a spinning outfit and quickly switched to an overhead. For me, it's a much better set up and the reels are as you say available for less than Stella/Saltiga prices (although you can spend as much as you like, obviously - SOM Blue Heaven anyone?!!)
 

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Some great points Timmer. :)

Firstly, it's good to know that Daiwa UK can handle Magseal servicing - that's (good) news to me. :) There is something to be said for 3rd party servicing, especially if you've modified your reels with non OEM parts (obviously this doesn't include RCS and Yumeya parts) - indeed, it may invalidate some warranties (but I can't comment for sure on this). With regard to the Expedition with internal corrosion, this belonged to a chap called Mark Harris, who really knows his onions/GT fishing and routinely services his reels. Again, it's one man's experience and as you rightly say, these may vary!

Re jigging, I started out using a spinning outfit and quickly switched to an overhead. For me, it's a much better set up and the reels are as you say available for less than Stella/Saltiga prices (although you can spend as much as you like, obviously - SOM Blue Heaven anyone?!!)
Ah well as you say Mark Harris does know his stuff, so probably not the WD40 issue! I think the 2014/15 models are just too young to make a judgement call on how reliable they are in the long term. It's clear that no spinning reel is 100% reliable (my 2008 stella was one of the lucky ones, but I'm sure most people know there have been issues with the roller on the bail arm), and as we also know, each of the big makes has their diehard fans, so stories tend to get bandied about a lot, and its hard to work out how representative they are.

As for the multiplier vs. fixed spool thing, like you say there are many advantages to multilpiers, but ultimately I'm just one of those people who loves to see a fish running on a fixed spool. I do really enjoy using my JM PE4 though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi Guys

Appreciate all your comments and info on this. I think I am coming close to a decision on these reels. I am thinking of getting a Saltiga Dogfight 8000 for my Jigging rod which is rated to 600g so it should marry up well? Then I am thinking of a Saltiga 15 6500H for my Popping Rod which is rated to 180g. Ideally I wanted a slightly smaller reel like the Saltiga 15 5000H but it only has 33lb of drag and I would feel I would be going backwards after using a 14000 Saragosa which has 40lb of drag, although I appreciate the Saltiga 15 are better quality.

To be honset the 14000 and 18000 Saragosa Reels have served me well over the years but I am now chasing 100+ GT, 100+ Doggies and Big Tunas so want to refine my equipment and to own reels that will last 15 odd years whilst pursuing the larger species.

Your comment Tim on Low Gear Reels for Jigging is interesting. I think I understand where you maybe coming from when using a 500g Jig on a low gear reel. I guess a Jig of that rate would drop quicker than you could take up the slack causing you to work harder? I in the main will be wanting to using Jigs between 250g and 350g with the odd occasion going over 400g so am thinking the Saltiga Dogfight 8000 would e a good option?

I would like to now Tim where you managed to get 500g Jigs from if you don't mind as I will be needing them on my up and coming trip to the same destination you have just come back from!

I did give Diawa a call yesterday about the reel sizes. They lead me to believe that the Body of the Saltiga 6500H, Dogfight 8000 and Expedition 8000H are all the same size apart from the rotary ball arm part and the spools. The problem is that no shops in the south east of England stock all these different types of reels so I cant look at them and compare them which is frustrating. I don't want a beast of a reel in size for my rods but hopefully the reels I suggested would marry up well with them?????????????????????

Appreciate any further comments Roosterfish and Tim. Cheers for you impute.
 

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Hi Guys

Appreciate all your comments and info on this. I think I am coming close to a decision on these reels. I am thinking of getting a Saltiga Dogfight 8000 for my Jigging rod which is rated to 600g so it should marry up well? Then I am thinking of a Saltiga 15 6500H for my Popping Rod which is rated to 180g. Ideally I wanted a slightly smaller reel like the Saltiga 15 5000H but it only has 33lb of drag and I would feel I would be going backwards after using a 14000 Saragosa which has 40lb of drag, although I appreciate the Saltiga 15 are better quality.

To be honset the 14000 and 18000 Saragosa Reels have served me well over the years but I am now chasing 100+ GT, 100+ Doggies and Big Tunas so want to refine my equipment and to own reels that will last 15 odd years whilst pursuing the larger species.

Your comment Tim on Low Gear Reels for Jigging is interesting. I think I understand where you maybe coming from when using a 500g Jig on a low gear reel. I guess a Jig of that rate would drop quicker than you could take up the slack causing you to work harder? I in the main will be wanting to using Jigs between 250g and 350g with the odd occasion going over 400g so am thinking the Saltiga Dogfight 8000 would e a good option?

I would like to now Tim where you managed to get 500g Jigs from if you don't mind as I will be needing them on my up and coming trip to the same destination you have just come back from!

I did give Diawa a call yesterday about the reel sizes. They lead me to believe that the Body of the Saltiga 6500H, Dogfight 8000 and Expedition 8000H are all the same size apart from the rotary ball arm part and the spools. The problem is that no shops in the south east of England stock all these different types of reels so I cant look at them and compare them which is frustrating. I don't want a beast of a reel in size for my rods but hopefully the reels I suggested would marry up well with them?????????????????????

Appreciate any further comments Roosterfish and Tim. Cheers for you impute.
My comment about the
low gear reel was more about winding up the jigs at the end of the drop, rather than actually working the lure. The low gear is just fine for that, but when you get to the end of the drop and you've got to wind the blighter in through so many meters of water, you start to wish you could take more line per crank!

Wow, so you're off to see Jason and Mady? Great! You'll have an amazing time :)
In that case thinking big as you are is the way to go! In all seriousness you shouldn't need a 500g jig though, 400-450g is about the high end of what's required for the deeper spots, with an average size of around 250-300g for more general work.

A couple of bits of advice:

aim to get braid that's a good diameter to strength ratio for your jigging. I used Jerry Brown 65lb for the dogs, which rates at about 96-100lb in reality, and is a low PE6 diameter. No issues whatsoever with line strength. I absolutely love the stuff. Dan at Adventure angler stocks it (I linked to his site earlier in the thread I think).

Both Jon and I found that the JM Monster Killer was THE lure for the big dogs in the deeps, again, I got mine from Dan, but I don't think he has them in stock right now so might be about looking on Saltywater or something if you can hack the import costs. He does seem to have the Fallings Special in 260g which did the damage on the shallower spots and might be worth a look. Anyway if you can't get the monster killers, try and find something with a narrow, spear-like profile that sinks quickly and can be ripped fast.

Another jig worth getting (no UK source for this that I know of sadly) is the Seven Seas Hooker. If you can find it, get the lumo colour one…no scratch that, get as many as you can lay your hands on. You'll be doing a bit of jigging as it's getting dark, and they knocked seven bells out of anything else we used. For some reason their lumo is way brighter than any other manufacturer!
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks Tim for the info. I will be sure to hunt down those big Jigs they sound just the job. The line will be worth looking also, thanks for that.
 
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