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The people's moral compass
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not much to say about that one, says what we really know anyways,

this one however, shows the amount of waste, etc, personally i think people who call anglers 'cruel' should take a look at commercials first, in the vid below the catch is indiscrimiate, undersize and sizeable are all unsorted while there's a chance of returning them, they're kicked onto a conveyer, dropped onto a table at the end, and in many cases, gutted before they're even dead,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMmlmcDHWJc&mode=user&search=

sorry if i upset anyone who's livelyhood depends on treating fish in this way, but personally i'd be very ashamed of myself, my industry, and i'd look for a more rewarding job.
 
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speking as an ex-trawlerman If people will buy fish, people will catch it ,and this is the most efficent way to do it
 

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The people's moral compass
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speking as an ex-trawlerman If people will buy fish, people will catch it ,and this is the most efficent way to do it
i understand it's efficient, and you couldn't stand there and physically kill every fish one by one, but they could at least sort them immediately, throwing the surviving bycatch back immediately, therefore helping ensure a sustainable fishery,

could you imagine if cattle were treated in the same way ? it would be more efficient to bulldoze the whole farms livestock into a tipper truck, tip em out at the factory, throw away all the now dead chicken, pigs, sheep, etc (bycatch), then to save even more time and money on stun guns just gut them there and then while on the floor, and stick em on ice for the market. that'd work, wouldn't it ???

the quickest way isn't always the most ethical.
 
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Crazy plums,
the big difference in your example is that the bulldozer driver could drive around and pick his victims, he would have a hell of a job doing it the waytrawlers have to.
the nearest I can come up with is to drag a net around the countryside half a mile below and behind a helicopter at night with only gps to help.not easy ithink you''ll agree!
The methods used by trawlers are not ethical,I agree, the biggest problem is not throwing back the by-catch,but quotas.
The way these work is, you can only land (for example only not accurate)10 tonnes of cod once you have these 10 tonnes you cannot LAND any more ,you carry on fishing and then catch 10 tonnes of 10 lb cod which sell for a higher price than the cod in the hold already so ,you don't need me to tell you what happens to the original 10 tonnes of cod that wont be landed.
this is where the problem lies not how they're caught or treated but how much they're worth.
If every trawler was allowed to land a certain tonnage per year regardless of species or size the quotas would be full by the end of february and all the boats tied up. but the government cant allow this as we are part of the EEC and must do as brussells tells us.
Iceland had a cod war ,and won ,just look at their fishing industry and pleasure fishing now.
 

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The people's moral compass
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The fish may still move a bit - but they would not survive even if they were discarded immediatly. The pressure changes involved from the coming up from the bottom tends to damage them some what.

It must surly be agreed that fish do not feel pain as you or I - or the farm animals in you example do or how on earth could YOU justify fishing for YOUR PLEASURE let alone doing it for a living. I think youre example is totally flawed.

A good decky will gut a fish in less than 10 seconds - the time in which you would take to get a priest and whack it on the head. When a fish is gutted properly all the guts and heart are removed so the fish is killed instantly - even tho it may thrash around a bit - it is only nerves, the fish is not still alive.

I have worked on trawlers in the past and am certainly not a fan of the fishing method. The discarded bycatch used to make me sick. However it is a very efficient fishing method and so long as the consumer demands a cheap product then trawlers will continue to fish.

More and more boats are switching to sustainable fishing methods but as their catch is reduced, they need a higher price for their product - something which the UK consumer is not always willing to accept.

SS

i agree on a total tonnage quota idea, sooner we're no longer a part of the eec's stupid fishery policies the better,

as for pleasure fishing, i do enjoy it, but ultimately i'm trying to catch the fish i want to eat (cod, whiting, bass, flatties etc), putting back everything else, 99% of the time...alive ! though in the case of course fishing, the arguments stands strong.

hounds and gar are the only thing i target with no real wish to eat them (although i have on occasion.)
 

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The fish may still move a bit - but they would not survive even if they were discarded immediatly. The pressure changes involved from the coming up from the bottom tends to damage them some what.

It must surly be agreed that fish do not feel pain as you or I - or the farm animals in you example do or how on earth could YOU justify fishing for YOUR PLEASURE let alone doing it for a living. I think youre example is totally flawed.

A good decky will gut a fish in less than 10 seconds - the time in which you would take to get a priest and whack it on the head. When a fish is gutted properly all the guts and heart are removed so the fish is killed instantly - even tho it may thrash around a bit - it is only nerves, the fish is not still alive.

I have worked on trawlers in the past and am certainly not a fan of the fishing method. The discarded bycatch used to make me sick. However it is a very efficient fishing method and so long as the consumer demands a cheap product then trawlers will continue to fish.

More and more boats are switching to sustainable fishing methods but as their catch is reduced, they need a higher price for their product - something which the UK consumer is not always willing to accept.

SS
That the "Conservation & Angling Politics Thread" had been closed? I didn't realise that it had been transferred to the "General Sea Angling Discussion" & that the " South Coast Commercial "Fifth Column" had taken control?:g:
Any chance this thread can be closed Mr Thrussell? As it seems that this is a subject relevant for discussion, & therefore subject to having the dreaded "lock" applied!
blueskip
 
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Leave it open..Seems sensible enough....South Coast Fifth column? I was accused of being in that and Im not on the South coast.I thought the Fifth Column was in Essex?
Who are you a member of blue,'The miserable old sod's Brigade'? :kissing:

'Heir Ron'
 

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To the South Coast to be included! & anything you support, has got to be against the best interests of angling! so I reckon I'm on the right track Ron!:yeah:
You support it on any thread, & I'll find it, & slag it off on principle, because I've got some!;)
blueskip
 

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I rest my case! it shows just how devious these commercials are!:nonono: anybody who sees anything honourable or justifiable in their actions, is as big an arsehole as they are, & has no right to be on a forum that is "purported" (& I use the term loosely) to represent RSA's:g:
Mike turf these toerags off! before this forum loses what little cred it has left! change the name to World Sea "Angling" Forum, & dump this excess baggage!
blueskip
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
sorry lads i been a bit busy lately ,but i say theres some interesting views on the topic ,


cheers
 
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Blueskip
just because some of us have a different opinion to you doesn't make us toerags
what is your next step ban anyone who doesn't use the same od as you?
we are all entitled to our opinion and to voice it unless we now live in a world where to be different is to be abused and suppressed, this seems to be where you are coming from.
 

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i understand it's efficient, and you couldn't stand there and physically kill every fish one by one, but they could at least sort them immediately, throwing the surviving bycatch back immediately, therefore helping ensure a sustainable fishery,

could you imagine if cattle were treated in the same way ? it would be more efficient to bulldoze the whole farms livestock into a tipper truck, tip em out at the factory, throw away all the now dead chicken, pigs, sheep, etc (bycatch), then to save even more time and money on stun guns just gut them there and then while on the floor, and stick em on ice for the market. that'd work, wouldn't it ???

the quickest way isn't always the most ethical.
2nd that :clap3:
 

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The people's moral compass
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SS, some valid points there, i know i was using wildly extreme scenario's, but i was just trying to highlight how others will definitely see it, as an angler, i at least have some understanding of what commercials have to do, some sympathy even, but i don't have to like it.

it does seem, from watching some of the programmes, that some of the deckies have little or no regard for the living fish they catch, and the huge huge quantities of bycatch is just unsustainable, as you say, the total tonnage quota system, regardless of species or size, has got to be the answer, and a way of stopping them from dumping less valuable catches.

the biggest problem in the long run, is the likes of that stupid eco bird on wife swap last night, the likes of her just wouldn't let it lie ! she wants all her healthy omega oils, murders poor veggies by uprooting them from their happy earthy home, but says fishing is cruel while she drives around in her big 4x4!!! i wonder where she thinks omega oil is from, it sure doesn't get milked on a farm does it ? there's only one way to get the oil and mr fish won't be swimming off into the sunset after giving it, there's only a miniscule amount for every fish killed, but i guess it must be ok, everyone can feed themselves to near obesity, but make up for it with a bit of manufactures plastic spread on their bread, with a hint of omega 3 oils in it, just to make up for all the junk that week, heaven help anyone if they all realised (and i mean realised, not just 'made aware') what goes into making their chip shop supper, processed fishy junk from the packets, or their omega oils,

blueskip, there is no reason to close this thread, i am no more a member of the south coast fifth column, than i am a toerag. personally i think your remarks are just alot childish, we're quite happily 'discussing' things here, showing different opinions, without throwing any dummies or toys out of our carriages, could i politely ask you to refrain from doing the same ?
 
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