I've changed 2 AFAW rods from multi to fixed spool and use both with braid only. I've used fuji K guides on both and have never had a problem. On my AFAW four and bait 13' I have 8 guides including tip guide. First guide is a 40mm down to 12mm. they do have a large stand off but never get braid wrap.

I used my four and bait for 2 weeks solid in cabo, lure fishing for roosters, constantly casting for 4 hrs a day and never had one guide wrap.

 

If you are using braid I would avoid using Minimas. I have had nothing but trouble with my Conoflex Flattie Quiver when using braid. I personally would go for the K guides or lowriders. I use the multiplier guide spacings for the low rider guides and the fixed spool spacings for the K-guides

 

Greg

Off topic but did you get a rooster? I spent four days there last month but there was a cold current hitting the coast so I didn't even see one!

Cheers

Tim

 

exactly the same!!! I was there last may and apparently the water temp was the lowest for years! I had a couple of jacks and needlefish but no roosters. I didn't hear of one rooster being caught whilst i was there. I'm going to give costa rica a go now.

 

back to the op question as i am intrigued as well as i am about to build a couple of fs uptiders!

 

for uptiders or any boat rod i would use fuji low riders but personally prefer k guides for any shore rods.

 

If you are using braid I would avoid using Minimas. I have had nothing but trouble with my Conoflex Flattie Quiver when using braid. I personally would go for the K guides or lowriders. I use the multiplier guide spacings for the low rider guides and the fixed spool spacings for the K-guides

Hope you don't mind me asking but what was the problem with Minimas/FS?

 

Only way to avoid ring wrap is to use a braid leader. Been there and got the t shirt!! Doesn't matter if you use a proper fixed spool ringing pattern, if you use braid to mono expect ring wraps. I use a multi rod with braid and braid leader with no problems at all. I have reversed the butt ring but more from a confidence point of view!

 

Only way to avoid ring wrap is to use a braid leader. Been there and got the t shirt!! Doesn't matter if you use a proper fixed spool ringing pattern, if you use braid to mono expect ring wraps. I use a multi rod with braid and braid leader with no problems at all. I have reversed the butt ring but more from a confidence point of view!

from personal experience I would have to disagree. There are guides available that significantly reduce the chance of braid wrapping and in my experience eliminate it. A braid leader is only going to cause problems, surely!? braid has no stretch so when your compressing the rod in a cast all the stress is on the rod. it cuts through skin like cheese wire, it has no abrasion resistance so if your fishing rough ground there is a good chance you'll ruin your leader. in clear water its extremely visible and if you get snagged 50lb rated braid is alot more difficult to break than 50lb rated mono, fluoro.

Personally I have never had a problem with a 60lb fluorocarbon leader tied to 20lb mainline braid with an FG knot. I use 50lb braid on some of my reels and always have a fluoro leader and have never have braid wrap with Fuji K guides.

 

from personal experience I would have to disagree. There are guides available that significantly reduce the chance of braid wrapping and in my experience eliminate it. A braid leader is only going to cause problems, surely!? braid has no stretch so when your compressing the rod in a cast all the stress is on the rod. it cuts through skin like cheese wire, it has no abrasion resistance so if your fishing rough ground there is a good chance you'll ruin your leader. in clear water its extremely visible and if you get snagged 50lb rated braid is alot more difficult to break than 50lb rated mono, fluoro.

Personally I have never had a problem with a 60lb fluorocarbon leader tied to 20lb mainline braid with an FG knot. I use 50lb braid on some of my reels and always have a fluoro leader and have never have braid wrap with Fuji K guides.

I never tried my braid with a mono leader as it didn't seem to make sense and I got the .43 braid leader at the same time as my first spool of .23 braid main line; but I can say that the only time I've ever experienced the line wrapping around a ring during the cast on any of my rods was when I took a rod into the shop to have them find a new tip ring and while I was waiting I went to the beach and I used my spare cheapo fibreglass beachcaster, my first ever beachcaster I had lol. One time during that one session the line (I think it was the leader itself) wrapped around a ring (I think it was the butt ring) and the Wessex rig snapped at the paternoster (where flatties had been lifted on thin wire swivels) and disappeared into the distance. Everything else has been faultless with the braid-braid set up.
I have Shimano Vengeance Tele 10' 10-30g with six single leg guides obviously used straight-thru, Okuma Wave Surfer Tele 14' 100-170g with five guides and Fladen Warbird Tele 15' 170-230g with five guides both with the same style guides idk whatever those guides are called, used with the .43mm braid leader. Various other rods I'm not all that happy with so/or don't use often.
Braid leader casts lovely, I suppose it might feel weird if you're used to mono, all the power goes into the rod "where it should be" and feels "right".
In regards to practicality on rough ground, well I did have to shorten a leader by a foot once because it was fluffy on the last six inches. It's true I don't fish a lot of rough ground; but I doubt anyone would be converting 13' beachcasters from multi to fixed to fish rough ground.. .43mm is okay for hand hauling flatties and small fish, otherwise you'll want a glove, obviously you cant hand haul big fish up big cliffs, but I doubt anyone would be converting 13' beachcasters from multi to fixed to fish mainly rough ground. I think it's really okay.

 

I never tried my braid with a mono leader as it didn't seem to make sense and I got the .43 braid leader at the same time as my first spool of .23 braid main line; but I can say that the only time I've ever experienced the line wrapping around a ring during the cast on any of my rods was when I took a rod into the shop to have them find a new tip ring and while I was waiting I went to the beach and I used my spare cheapo fibreglass beachcaster, my first ever beachcaster I had lol. One time during that one session the line (I think it was the leader itself) wrapped around a ring (I think it was the butt ring) and the Wessex rig snapped at the paternoster (where flatties had been lifted on thin wire swivels) and disappeared into the distance. Everything else has been faultless with the braid-braid set up.
I have Shimano Vengeance Tele 10' 10-30g with six single leg guides obviously used straight-thru, Okuma Wave Surfer Tele 14' 100-170g with five guides and Fladen Warbird Tele 15' 170-230g with five guides both with the same style guides idk whatever those guides are called, used with the .43mm braid leader. Various other rods I'm not all that happy with so/or don't use often.
Braid leader casts lovely, I suppose it might feel weird if you're used to mono, all the power goes into the rod "where it should be" and feels "right".
In regards to practicality on rough ground, well I did have to shorten a leader by a foot once because it was fluffy on the last six inches. It's true I don't fish a lot of rough ground; but I doubt anyone would be converting 13' beachcasters from multi to fixed to fish rough ground.. .43mm is okay for hand hauling flatties and small fish, otherwise you'll want a glove, obviously you cant hand haul big fish up big cliffs, but I doubt anyone would be converting 13' beachcasters from multi to fixed to fish mainly rough ground. I think it's really okay.

The main 2 reason I use a mono/fluoro leader is the damage that braid can cause under tension and i fish alot of clear water abroad. I take it you must go through quite a few casting fingers? Have you ever had an issue with braid cuts on fingers when using it as a leader material?

 

from personal experience I would have to disagree. There are guides available that significantly reduce the chance of braid wrapping and in my experience eliminate it. A braid leader is only going to cause problems, surely!? braid has no stretch so when your compressing the rod in a cast all the stress is on the rod. it cuts through skin like cheese wire, it has no abrasion resistance so if your fishing rough ground there is a good chance you'll ruin your leader. in clear water its extremely visible and if you get snagged 50lb rated braid is alot more difficult to break than 50lb rated mono, fluoro.

Personally I have never had a problem with a 60lb fluorocarbon leader tied to 20lb mainline braid with an FG knot. I use 50lb braid on some of my reels and always have a fluoro leader and have never have braid wrap with Fuji K guides.

Agree some rings are better, reversed butt rings, K guides etc.

If your lobbing your cast then a mono leader will probably work ok but I found THROUGH EXPERIENCE when power casting you would get ring wrap (say 1 in 6 casts). The harder you cast the worse the problem became to the point it totally destroys your confidence and you lose half your braid. It's a nightmare scenario fishing a match, or when good bait is scarce!!

Since switching to a braid leader crackoff problems have all but disappeared. As for stress in a rod and it feeling harsh, learn to cast. 60lb leader tbh is too light.

I actually find it easier and more consistent, timing is better, the rod bends, tightens and you hit it late! simples. I have had to choose a slightly softer rod however.

As for abrasion resistance I use 100lb+ braid leader and have had few problems even in the ruff stuff. Just replace as necessary, certainly less so than normal leader and you have the bonus of pulling out of more snags much easier. No more walking back and forth trying to break out a bimini hitch on stretchy mono.

Don't see how the visibility of braid is relevant it's not as if it's used for hooklength or trace line. I still use the std 80lb ultima powerflex, amnesia or fluro on snoods or lighter on the continental gear.

Far too much talking about the pro's and cons of braid than actually learning how to use it!

 

The main 2 reason I use a mono/fluoro leader is the damage that braid can cause under tension and i fish alot of clear water abroad. I take it you must go through quite a few casting fingers? Have you ever had an issue with braid cuts on fingers when using it as a leader material?

I went through a finger stall a session until I was put onto some from America. Cost peanuts and are made from a heavy calf leather. Just stitch them onto a strap and you can leave them on your wrist or tuck them up your sleeve. they are quite thick but the leather is very soft.

You can also use the gardiner casting gloves or the heavy builders gloves and cut off all the fingers leaving one for your index finger.

Some swear by the cannon , I swear at them, awful things. You need to feel the cast.

 

hate to say it but most ring wraps/crack offs with braid are from twisting the rod/reel during the cast. you get same probs with light (sub 0.20) mono have taught several people to get over it in past year or so

 

Agree some rings are better, reversed butt rings, K guides etc.

If your lobbing your cast then a mono leader will probably work ok but I found THROUGH EXPERIENCE when power casting you would get ring wrap (say 1 in 6 casts). The harder you cast the worse the problem became to the point it totally destroys your confidence and you lose half your braid. It's a nightmare scenario fishing a match, or when good bait is scarce!!

Since switching to a braid leader crackoff problems have all but disappeared. As for stress in a rod and it feeling harsh, learn to cast. 60lb leader tbh is too light.

I actually find it easier and more consistent, timing is better, the rod bends, tightens and you hit it late! simples. I have had to choose a slightly softer rod however.

As for abrasion resistance I use 100lb+ braid leader and have had few problems even in the ruff stuff. Just replace as necessary, certainly less so than normal leader and you have the bonus of pulling out of more snags much easier. No more walking back and forth trying to break out a bimini hitch on stretchy mono.

Don't see how the visibility of braid is relevant it's not as if it's used for hooklength or trace line. I still use the std 80lb ultima powerflex, amnesia or fluro on snoods or lighter on the continental gear.

Far too much talking about the pro's and cons of braid than actually learning how to use it!

Agree totally with Chukka and Furry,after having mystery crackoffs for no apparent reason, made the change to a braid leader and Hey Presto, the problem disappeared, and I certainly haven't discovered any new problems to date.

 

Switched to FS and had nothing but ring wraps with mono and leaders. Made the move to braid and not had a sniff of trouble ever since. 60lb straight through for 18 months, and now I am using a 60lb braid leader with 30lb braid mainline (hoping for a few more yards and less tide drag.

I did have Minimas on my rods but found the tip ring and second from tip started to groove so replaced them with ceramics. You might also consider a fold down 50mm butt ring.

There is no doubt in my mind that it is the leader knot which causes wring wraps.

Simon, I was going to suggest you get yourself some Cannons, but I may be able to offer you a couple of my own casting aids which fit on top of the rod and held down with your thumb as per multi All stainless steel. Been testing for a week or two with 100% success :idea:

Den

 

The main 2 reason I use a mono/fluoro leader is the damage that braid can cause under tension and i fish alot of clear water abroad. I take it you must go through quite a few casting fingers? Have you ever had an issue with braid cuts on fingers when using it as a leader material?

I realise the thread got past this already, but I use a Breakaway Cannon, so no problems at all. I set my drag once at the start of a sesh and leave it, I cast and pull hooks straight without touching the drag on the reel. Even put a Cannon on the little rod, just for the convenience of pulling for a break (so much faster, prevents re-snagging) but it is noticable that I can't "feel the cast" on that weight range. The moss green .43 Power Pro is barely visible really IMO..
Anyway main point I was trying to make was just that I don't even choose "good" rods, let alone choose specific braid rods with the "right" guides. I can't name various guides or tell you what they're for. I just bought half a dozen mostly tele rods that will fit on my bicycle and cheap, some real sh--e ones got replaced, yet I still haven't had problems with line/ring wrap (OHT, OTG, and starting to Pendulum now) with any of them except ONE time with ONE sub £30 rod that'd probably go for about £15 these days. So why haven't I? My experience suggests it's not a question of the right guides, or even the rod as long as it's reasonable.

 

hate to say it but most ring wraps/crack offs with braid are from twisting the rod/reel during the cast. you get same probs with light (sub 0.20) mono have taught several people to get over it in past year or so

Hmm, now I wonder if my Cannon being offset slightly (to the left for a lefty) makes the difference. I only tried braid-braid, never braid-mono so I can't say for sure if it's that or my casting technique, only that it seems it's not the rod or guides.

 

Interesting.

I don't have any issues at all with braid of 0.35 or thicker causing ring wrap. It's the sub 0.2 braid that does the damage. I've used mono leaders and braid leaders and have had issues with both when using thinner braids but no issues with thicker braids.

I'll have a look at the rings suggested and try one set on each. Thanks for your comments.......even though most were off topic LOL.

ps. I like rooster fish, Guatemala is good! I miss my bluewater fishing.

pps. I don't like the cannons...tried them years ago and it didn't "feel" right. Can't really put my finger on why....and no pun intended.

 

Whole reason for a shock leader is to abbsord the shock, if it doesnt stretch then it doesnt absorb anything, just use a tapered leader never had a problem and make the top eye more of a right angle

 

Hi,

Been there, done that, have earned the T-shirt

FWIW, I think that ring wrap of braid has several causes:

- rod recovery rate needs to be high enough --> no floppy rod tip,

- fixed spool need not to be over filled --> at least 2 .. 3 mm below spool lip --> get some drag on the spool lip to pull the line straight through the rings,

- healthy line lay on the spool --> not 2 windings or more leaving the spool at same time,

- shockleader with enough length to overcome the recovery time of the rod tip,

- build the cast starting slow and ending fast (push-pull),

- go for continuous acceleration of the rod tip,

- don't hold back during the cast,

- don't start thinking in the middle of the cast about all the chores still to be done at home (you escaped from that and are fishing, aren't you !),

- cast with confidence.

If a ring wrap and crack off occurs ... it will, because you let it happen

Tight lines, lambert63.

 

Interesting thread, I've never given it a thought about rings when I changed from nylon to braid, just put it on and away I went, never had a problem either with multis or f/spools.
As an aside I never use shock leaders with the braid, 80lb and 100lb braid straight through, no leader knots, works great for me using 6 and 8 ounce leads.30lb braid with 3 ounce leads straight through on my flattie rods. Fish rough ground all winter and not a crackoff all last winter, just keep an eye on the braid for any signs of wear and re make the end if it looks damaged, takes a minute tops.

 

I know alot of lads who use min 4 guides when using braid on f/s the way to avoid ring wrap is use 40mm guide on but section get a pair of pliers and bend the guide ring upwards sort of like a k wag